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Post by YouStayClassySanDiego on Aug 23, 2020 23:22:06 GMT -5
So, I've been playing golf sims for a long time now and played both the original TGC and TGC 19, where I competed on the TGCT circuit.
I've been playing since launch with the new game and have found it very fun as well as challenging with the new mechanics. However, one thing was really bugging me. I would get swings that just out and out felt like they didn't match up to how I executed my swing.
Tonight, I decided to find out if I was crazy or if it was the game. I created a digital 'Iron Byron' to use on the range to test a perfect tempo swing (although not a perfect swing plane). I then tested all the different clubs in my bag as well as all swing types. Big surprise, I wasn't crazy. The exact same mouse movements produced different results, even within the same club and shot type. With every club in the bag, the exact same swing motion produced everything from Very Fast swings to Slow swings, although through a couple hundred shots on the range, never saw a Very Slow swing with my tests. It was even worse with different shot types. Pitches, splash shots and flops were somewhat consistent with either perfect or fast tempo. Chip shots were all over the place from fast to slow.
As a side note, the length or time for the backswing does vary from shot type to shot type. What was a 101% full swing, pitch and chip shot became 81% with a splash shot.
I wanted to make sure this wasn't somehow a system issue, so I killed all unneeded background processes and repeated my test with the same result. Not sure if it matters, but my machine specs are easily more than enough to handle PGA2k21 - 9900k processor, 32gb quality RAM, running from a Samsung SSD and a 1080Ti video card.
I don't know if this is by design - add an element of luck and inconsistency as in real golf, but I when I hit a duck hook off the tee in real golf, I sure as hell know I made a bad swing. In the game, when I execute a good swing only to see a crazy result, it's really annoying. I'd love to hear from the developers as to why this is the case and if it's intentional on their part.
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Post by cseanny on Aug 24, 2020 5:23:28 GMT -5
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Post by tippy2k on Aug 24, 2020 12:41:21 GMT -5
The swing tempo in this game feels absolutely broken. I'm half of the mind that 2K games accidentally released the wrong code for Gold but are now too embarrassed to admit it so they're just pretending that it's totally fine and there's absolutely nothing wrong with the swing tempo. It's absolute sh%$ and I greatly regret buying this game at this point.
Sure, you'd get the odd wonky shot in 2019 but I could always tell immediately when I went too fast or too slow on my swing in 2019. I don't expect every shot to be perfect but I expect the game to be CONSISTENT. Right now, it's not consistent at all and it's disc-snapping frustrating. Half of me really wants to believe that if I just keep practicing, eventually I'll figure it out because I really want to do the TGC Tours but half of me also thinks that I really should cut my losses now before word of mouth tanks the hell out of the price of the game and I can no longer sell it to get at least most of my money back...
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Post by tippy2k on Aug 24, 2020 20:56:30 GMT -5
You know, I just had this thought...
The servers have been absolute sh%$ since the game came out. I just now found out that you're connected to their servers even in single player (found out because I got a connection error trying to play the PGA Tour Career Mode but 2Ks sh%$ servers aren't working again). Are the sh%$ servers why you can make the same exact swinging motion and get wildly different results? Is this something that will be fixed when they plug their servers into something stronger than a McDonalds Wi-Fi or am I better off dumping the game now before people realize how sh%$ this game is?
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Post by YouStayClassySanDiego on Aug 24, 2020 22:21:11 GMT -5
Okay, just finished some testing with cseanny tonight. I never would have thought to try this, but he had me turn my graphics settings all the way down. Guess what? Tempo variations were minuscule. As in the tempo mark across 10-15 swings was never outside of perfect on Masters clubs. As soon as I turned graphics back up, tempo started going all over the place again. I'd love to see some results from others in the community to see if we can confirm this.
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Post by tippy2k on Aug 24, 2020 22:40:48 GMT -5
Okay, just finished some testing with cseanny tonight. I never would have thought to try this, but he had me turn my graphics settings all the way down. Guess what? Tempo variations were minuscule. As in the tempo mark across 10-15 swings was never outside of perfect on Masters clubs. As soon as I turned graphics back up, tempo started going all over the place again. I'd love to see some results from others in the community to see if we can confirm this. I would but I'm on Xbox so I'm not sure what kind of excuse 2K would have for the awful swing tempo mechanics on Master clubs... |
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Post by bahnzo on Aug 24, 2020 23:10:17 GMT -5
Okay, just finished some testing with cseanny tonight. I never would have thought to try this, but he had me turn my graphics settings all the way down. Guess what? Tempo variations were minuscule. As in the tempo mark across 10-15 swings was never outside of perfect on Masters clubs. As soon as I turned graphics back up, tempo started going all over the place again. I'd love to see some results from others in the community to see if we can confirm this. Looking at your system specs, if graphics are causing this, then I have to think there's an issue somewhere. What general graphics settings and FPS were you getting before, and then what did you turn it down to and then those FPS then? I'll try this myself tomorrow and see what I come up with. |
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Post by YouStayClassySanDiego on Aug 24, 2020 23:29:36 GMT -5
So, went out and played a couple rounds of PGA Career mode. All graphics settings at minimum. First round was done entirely via my scripting. Results varied. There were still fast and slow swings as well as variances in power percentage, despite target distance always being 100%. This throws the hypothesis above into question, although it could be explained by the fact that the game needs to render more stuff on course versus the range, even with low settings. Second round was set at Master setting for difficulty and was much better in terms of tempo feel that earlier rounds. I had quite a few perfect tempo swings and very few big misses. Certainly manageable, as I shot -7 with only 1 bogey at the Valspar tournament. Still need feedback from others in the community.
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Post by fadgewacker on Aug 25, 2020 5:00:01 GMT -5
Okay, just finished some testing with cseanny tonight. I never would have thought to try this, but he had me turn my graphics settings all the way down. Guess what? Tempo variations were minuscule. As in the tempo mark across 10-15 swings was never outside of perfect on Masters clubs. As soon as I turned graphics back up, tempo started going all over the place again. I'd love to see some results from others in the community to see if we can confirm this. I would but I'm on Xbox so I'm not sure what kind of excuse 2K would have for the awful swing tempo mechanics on Master clubs... What is your skill level? Where did you play your TGCT2019 rounds? What skill level in 2K21 do you need to drop to so that you can get a feeling that it works, or is it always random? Masters are hard work... Those of us on PGA are just starting to get a hang of it, and some of us are not. I did think the swing was random at a point, but the more I've played it, the more I realise this isn't the case, on PS4 at least. All sorts of BS could affect PC players, but you would hope that XB and PS as closed systems on set specs, should be reasonably solid. |
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Post by pc17 on Aug 25, 2020 6:19:25 GMT -5
The problem with HB, is their quest to produce a golf game, where the scores are more realistic. In doing so they have produced a game where the vast majority of people playing the game look like amatures. Most playing this game will no doubt watch golf on TV. How many professional players do you see slicing/hooking a sand wedge 20 yards or so off line. Never! So then it shouldn't happen in this game either. Everyone knows (apart from the guys at HB), that the sweet spot of a club gets easier to hit, the shorter the club is. That's why you see professionals whacking their Tee shot into trees, and sometimes out-of-bounds. But you see very little wayward shots when there hitting shorter clubs. I played golf IRL and any club shorter than a 7 iron went straight 90% of the time. The longer the club the more slice I hit, so I just adjusted my aim more to compensate for the club I was hitting. I never once in all the years of playing golf did I ever hit a hook. I even asked my nephew, who was a semi-professional golfer to teach me how to hook a ball, but I just found it impossible to achieve it. The reason for all this drivel, is to indicate that everyone has their own swing, so why does HB still insist that everyone should swing the club the same way. Can you imagine what would happen if this was forced on all Pro's. The tempo swing should be taken out of this game, and you hitting your ball off line should mirror your swing plane, and just make this part of the game more sensitive. At least you will have a visual indication on why your ball has gone where it has, but what's more important, is the player can swing their club the way they want.
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Post by fadgewacker on Aug 25, 2020 6:32:12 GMT -5
The problem with HB, is their quest to produce a golf game, where the scores are more realistic. In doing so they have produced a game where the vast majority of people playing the game look like amatures. Most playing this game will no doubt watch golf on TV. How many professional players do you see slicing/hooking a sand wedge 20 yards or so off line. Never! So then it shouldn't happen in this game either. Everyone knows (apart from the guys at HB), that the sweet spot of a club gets easier to hit, the shorter the club is. That's why you see professionals whacking their Tee shot into trees, and sometimes out-of-bounds. But you see very little wayward shots when there hitting shorter clubs. I played golf IRL and any club shorter than a 7 iron went straight 90% of the time. The longer the club the more slice I hit, so I just adjusted my aim more to compensate for the club I was hitting. I never once in all the years of playing golf did I ever hit a hook. I even asked my nephew, who was a semi-professional golfer to teach me how to hook a ball, but I just found it impossible to achieve it. The reason for all this drivel, is to indicate that everyone has their own swing, so why does HB still insist that everyone should swing the club the same way. Can you imagine what would happen if this was forced on all Pro's. The tempo swing should be taken out of this game, and you hitting your ball off line should mirror your swing plane, and just make this part of the game more sensitive. At least you will have a visual indication on why your ball has gone where it has, but what's more important, is the player can swing their club the way they want. 1 - Hb have put so many difficulty options in this game, you can play it any damn way you want. Seriously. They give you the ability to play like a God, so your barb at HB is well wide of the mark. 2 - If you want to compete on this site, you will have to conform to certain skill level, so it seems going forward... That skill level still gives you the creativity to say, swing in to out and play everything with a fast, without hooking it miles, if you can manipulate tempo. 3 - The no tempo swing you are after, was absolutely destroyed by the best players. Also, it led to insane levels of cheating and straight shooting - It is available in this game, just not for use on this site. Seems you don't like the tempo part of the swing, as it makes the creativity part that you crave, too difficult... maybe I'm misreading this. Try dropping a few difficulty levels until you can improve. I was having a nightmare on day 2, but feel pretty confident I can get it round now. |
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Post by tippy2k on Aug 25, 2020 7:24:51 GMT -5
I would but I'm on Xbox so I'm not sure what kind of excuse 2K would have for the awful swing tempo mechanics on Master clubs... What is your skill level? Where did you play your TGCT2019 rounds? What skill level in 2K21 do you need to drop to so that you can get a feeling that it works, or is it always random? Masters are hard work... Those of us on PGA are just starting to get a hang of it, and some of us are not. I did think the swing was random at a point, but the more I've played it, the more I realise this isn't the case, on PS4 at least. All sorts of BS could affect PC players, but you would hope that XB and PS as closed systems on set specs, should be reasonably solid. I played with Master Clubs in 2019 (generally CC-F as I would routinely shoot approx -6 to -14 pending on how "hot" I get with my putter) But the difference and what I think people who keep saying "Of course the clubs are hard!!!!" in some of the other threads don't seem to understand is that my issue isn't that the game is difficult and that shooting takes skill. It's how inconsistent everything is. In 2019, I had bad shots (hence why I had some rounds that were -6 rather than -14) but I could always tell you WHY my shot was bad. As soon as I made contact, you could have dumped the bar on the right and I could tell you "That's going left, I went too fast" or "that's going right, my finger slipped and I went way too slow". That's not the case in this game for Master Clubs. If I go into the range, I can hit the balls right down the gut 9 out of 10 times. The ball goes straight as a damn arrow. But as soon as you start an actual event, I can make the same flicking motion 10 times and get 10 wildly different results. I'm starting to seriously wonder if the OP here is correct and that 2K somehow managed to create courses that the game couldn't handle and because the master clubs are SO sensitive, it literally breaks them having the slight delays or FPS dips or whatever is actually causing the problems. One would think that 2K would code things that wouldn't have this issue because they know exact what hardware they have but we've seen thousands of games that have dips in frame rate and whatnot on console (Blighttown in Dark Souls anyone) because somehow developers don't know what the hardware that is uniform can and can't handle. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2020 8:12:31 GMT -5
Rather than calibration all they needed to do was put different swing styles in game that had their own default tempo.
I feel like the longer sticks on Xbox compared to PS4 back this quicker swing inconsistent
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Post by pc17 on Aug 25, 2020 11:30:56 GMT -5
The problem with HB, is their quest to produce a golf game, where the scores are more realistic. In doing so they have produced a game where the vast majority of people playing the game look like amatures. Most playing this game will no doubt watch golf on TV. How many professional players do you see slicing/hooking a sand wedge 20 yards or so off line. Never! So then it shouldn't happen in this game either. Everyone knows (apart from the guys at HB), that the sweet spot of a club gets easier to hit, the shorter the club is. That's why you see professionals whacking their Tee shot into trees, and sometimes out-of-bounds. But you see very little wayward shots when there hitting shorter clubs. I played golf IRL and any club shorter than a 7 iron went straight 90% of the time. The longer the club the more slice I hit, so I just adjusted my aim more to compensate for the club I was hitting. I never once in all the years of playing golf did I ever hit a hook. I even asked my nephew, who was a semi-professional golfer to teach me how to hook a ball, but I just found it impossible to achieve it. The reason for all this drivel, is to indicate that everyone has their own swing, so why does HB still insist that everyone should swing the club the same way. Can you imagine what would happen if this was forced on all Pro's. The tempo swing should be taken out of this game, and you hitting your ball off line should mirror your swing plane, and just make this part of the game more sensitive. At least you will have a visual indication on why your ball has gone where it has, but what's more important, is the player can swing their club the way they want. 1 - Hb have put so many difficulty options in this game, you can play it any damn way you want. Seriously. They give you the ability to play like a God, so your barb at HB is well wide of the mark. 2 - If you want to compete on this site, you will have to conform to certain skill level, so it seems going forward... That skill level still gives you the creativity to say, swing in to out and play everything with a fast, without hooking it miles, if you can manipulate tempo. 3 - The no tempo swing you are after, was absolutely destroyed by the best players. Also, it led to insane levels of cheating and straight shooting - It is available in this game, just not for use on this site. Seems you don't like the tempo part of the swing, as it makes the creativity part that you crave, too difficult... maybe I'm misreading this. Try dropping a few difficulty levels until you can improve. I was having a nightmare on day 2, but feel pretty confident I can get it round now. The problem with the Tempo swing is that you can hit 3 shots and receive a Fast/Slow/Perfect swing, and there is no visible evidence to separate the timings. So how on earth can you improve on unknown knowledge. It's just guess work. The tempo wasn't in the 1st game, and I agree the game was easy, but that's only because the swing plane wasn't sensitive enough, and didn't punish you enough for wayward shots. But I felt the way you could adjust for almost any shot in the game was very realistic. I don't see how you can be creative, because no matter how much effort you put into setting up a shot, its all down to getting the tempo right. Get it wrong and it screws up everything you've done. Golf is all about feel, thats why the 1st game was brilliant. I mentioned my nephew in my original post, who is in his 50s now, and he said the swing in the 1st game was very true to life, whereas the TGC2 and TGC2019, didn't replicate the physics of golf. |
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Post by BillySastard976 on Aug 25, 2020 12:04:27 GMT -5
I agree, there can be very little creativity with a tempo so wayward. Eventually, after so many slows or fasts it just seems pointless even working out where to hit, how hard, how much loft, knowing full well that the tempo will interrupt all of that - the creativity never gets a chance.
It was no different for me with the last game, on Xbox. I expected better this time!
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