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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2024 12:47:59 GMT -5
I feel like there is some balance toward shotmaking the game mechanics. I get a much better action on the green when I hold a big draw or fade against a crosswind on my approach shots. It's way easier to control the rollout but I also get much skinnier light grey band and it involves many more things to estimate. Pretty hard to be precise to the yard on a landing spot. What a lot of players are doing on the tours seems more like calculating artillery fire than hitting golf shots, with spreadsheets that tell them how many grid boxes to move their aim based on wind and elevation, landing exactly where they plan if they get a perfect. Then another sheet that tells them exactly how to read putts based off zooming into the grid lines. Many of those players probably copied someone else's spreadsheet and didn't even map out their carry themselves. It's not the type of test I think reveals who are actually best at simulated golf. ☝️ Mate if you had posted that two years ago you’d have saved me a thousand messages talking nonsense trying to convey that. That’s the one right there 👍 Better representation of golf. If that’s the aim. And imo more fun. |
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Post by Brenelan on Jun 1, 2024 13:29:29 GMT -5
I mean, I guess - if we're accepting as true that "most players" are using spreadsheets. I'm not sold, especially at this point in the game's life cycle.
Even at that, I think that trying to get to some perfect simulation of real life golf is a fool's errand. Ultimately, you're likely inside your home pushing a little joystick back and forth. The better players might not all be using spreadsheets but they are doing the mental math I'm their heads all the same, if subliminally.
As always, what some of the hard-core players here are looking for just isn't fun for most. Great that you all have been able to create a great society to scratch that itch.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2024 13:47:13 GMT -5
I mean, I guess - if we're accepting as true that "most players" are using spreadsheets. I'm not sold, especially at this point in the game's life cycle. Even at that, I think that trying to get to some perfect simulation of real life golf is a fool's errand. Ultimately, you're likely inside your home pushing a little joystick back and forth. The better players might not all be using spreadsheets but they are doing the mental math I'm their heads all the same, if subliminally. As always, what some of the hard-core players here are looking for just isn't fun for most. Great that you all have been able to create a great society to scratch that itch. There is also the point that the game has been out going on for 2 years. SIM/grids whatever. Surely it's time to bump up the skill level when it is getting too easy and the scoring is more Mario golf than an actual golf game. Every single flight on TGCTOURS and including TST is showing that the game is way too easy for most. Nothing about simulation but a fact that the swing is too easy on master level full stop on aids or zero aids. Is is too hard on legend, of course not just takes a bit more concentration and dare I say practice. Just seems a lot of very good players are content with easy and easy is less swing execusion and just maths and that is not the point of a good golf game with good challenging game play. Surely the pro tours and TST should be looking for a golf swing that isn't just autopilot for most half decent and also average players. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2024 14:32:18 GMT -5
I mean, I guess - if we're accepting as true that "most players" are using spreadsheets. I'm not sold, especially at this point in the game's life cycle. Even at that, I think that trying to get to some perfect simulation of real life golf is a fool's errand. Ultimately, you're likely inside your home pushing a little joystick back and forth. The better players might not all be using spreadsheets but they are doing the mental math I'm their heads all the same, if subliminally. As always, what some of the hard-core players here are looking for just isn't fun for most. Great that you all have been able to create a great society to scratch that itch. I’m not trying to convince anyone just to be clear. We all know I’ve had that discussion loads and loads. Although to be honest I think Ben has summarised the reasoning why better than I ever have in a post. But this whole ‘it’s just a game’ idea never really convinces me of why we shouldn’t have a discussion or give feedback. Of course it’s a game. I mean, I know… 🤷I play a load of golf irl. I’m not a moron lol (not that you’re implying I am, and I’m not trying to be a dick lol but you know what I mean) Like Iracing and Mario Kart are racing games. Neither is driving a car (although iRacing is a hell of a lot closer to driving a car than this is to playing golf). Likewise FIFA on amateur is a game but you’re only ever going to run through and bang in goals, whereas on world class you’re going to have to think a bit, tackle, consider tactics etc. to me it all feels a bit fifa on amateur atm, or Beer League on extreme courses. I just think there would be a place for a tour on the settings I’ve outlined above if it was given the time to grow. And again not pressuring anyone, I completely understand why the tours aren’t interested in pushing something niche when the mainline tours are doing so well number wise. But I’m with Ben in that the game is in a weird spot where there’s quite a lot of competition about in the community but on very gentle settings. I wouldn’t even say we’re hardcore or any of that nonsense really, it’s not THAT hard at all with the aids off…Maybe to shoot double digits under par yeah, but not to shoot respectable scores. FWIW mate I swear to god when I saw this thread I said to myself please don’t start this again but Ben captured exactly why I’ve been pushing people to try it out for so long and I caved. Blame him! 😆 you all know I spout shite every month or so regardless haha Edit: that’s a really really long winded way of saying I don’t think it’s a fools errand. Or trying to chase an unachievable perfect simulation of golf’. There’s a really good one already there in-game now ready to be played! I think framing it in those terms only makes it seem ridiculous tbh. Of course it’s never going to be golf unless we’re all hitting into trackmans. We’re not (totally) daft  And I would genuinely encourage everyone to try out TAN even if you’re really dead set against it. Play a couple of weeks, give it a go. Take a ghost and chill out. It’s not hardcore by any means. It’s great fun! |
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Post by donkeypuncherben on Jun 1, 2024 14:52:04 GMT -5
I mean, I guess - if we're accepting as true that "most players" are using spreadsheets. I'm not sold, especially at this point in the game's life cycle. Even at that, I think that trying to get to some perfect simulation of real life golf is a fool's errand. Ultimately, you're likely inside your home pushing a little joystick back and forth. The better players might not all be using spreadsheets but they are doing the mental math I'm their heads all the same, if subliminally. As always, what some of the hard-core players here are looking for just isn't fun for most. Great that you all have been able to create a great society to scratch that itch. I know we're never getting a legend swing tour. And, you're right that I don't know how many are using spreadsheets though i believe it's widespread. I do think Platinum playing without scout cam and aiming marker would be a more reasonable compromise that takes the precision out of the calculated shots and putting. I'll continue to play the tours as long as this is the society that has broad range of competition, the fair play api, and cross platform leaderboards. In wanting tgct to be better, I am not trying to be too down on all the great things they do. And of course the rules I favor are what fits the style of play I enjoy. Just editing to add that taking away scout cam would also necessitate playing designs with good sight lines and better course designs in general, though the tours already do a good job of that. |
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Post by oswinner on Jun 1, 2024 14:59:12 GMT -5
PGA Tour 2023 Best (1st) Stroke Average: 68.3 Average: 70.5
Worst (193rd) Stroke Average: 72.2 Gap (Best to Average): 2.2 strokes Gap (Best to Worst): 3.9 strokes
Platinum Tour 2024 40 Rounds Minimum
Best (1st) Stroke Average: 57.1 Average: 61.0
Worst (106th) Stroke Average: 64.6 Gap (Best to Average): 3.9 strokes Gap (Best to Worst): 7.5 strokes
Elite Tour 2024 40 Rounds Min Best (1st) Stroke Average: 62.0 Average: 63.4
Worst (101st) Stroke Average: 65.7 Gap (Best to Average): 1.4 strokes
Gap (Best to Worst): 3.7 strokes
Kinetic Tour 2024
40 Rounds Min
Best (1st) Stroke Average: 62.5
Average: 64.5
Worst (86th) Stroke Average: 67.5
Gap (Best to Average): 2.0 strokes
Gap (Best to Worst): 5.0 strokes
That gap on the Platinum Tour is massive. I see why the thread starter is feeling like he's stuck between two skill gaps. But hey, it's still a lot tighter than the TST Tour. I sometimes finish 60 strokes back from the lead on that one hahaha.
Just for kicks...
True Sim Tour 2024 40 Rounds Min
Best (1st) Stroke Average: 61.2
Average: 69.0
Worst (73rd) Stroke Average: 84.5
Gap (Best to Average): 7.8 strokes
Gap (Best to Worst): 23.3 strokes
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Post by Brenelan on Jun 1, 2024 15:04:17 GMT -5
I mean, I guess - if we're accepting as true that "most players" are using spreadsheets. I'm not sold, especially at this point in the game's life cycle. Even at that, I think that trying to get to some perfect simulation of real life golf is a fool's errand. Ultimately, you're likely inside your home pushing a little joystick back and forth. The better players might not all be using spreadsheets but they are doing the mental math I'm their heads all the same, if subliminally. As always, what some of the hard-core players here are looking for just isn't fun for most. Great that you all have been able to create a great society to scratch that itch. There is also the point that the game has been out going on for 2 years. SIM/grids whatever. Surely it's time to bump up the skill level when it is getting too easy and the scoring is more Mario golf than an actual golf game. Every single flight on TGCTOURS and including TST is showing that the game is way too easy for most. Nothing about simulation but a fact that the swing is too easy on master level full stop on aids or zero aids. Is is too hard on legend, of course not just takes a bit more concentration and dare I say practice. Just seems a lot of very good players are content with easy and easy is less swing execusion and just maths and that is not the point of a good golf game with good challenging game play. Surely the pro tours and TST should be looking for a golf swing that isn't just autopilot for most half decent and also average players. Part of my issue with this dead horse is you're working under the assumption that people haven't tried legend swing or haven't tried it enough. You're also bound and determined to tell people what they should be enjoying, and difficulty-shaming" them for disagreeing with you. I'm just one guy, but I've tried Legend a bit - and it wasn't fun. We tried it on True Sim, and many who played it found it to be not fun. We tested it (IIRC) when this version of the game dropped and many found it to be not fun. I'm pro-fun in my video games and anti-not fun, simply put. Sorry you don't find Master swing fun, but glad you have other avenues to get there. |
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Post by longpole on Jun 1, 2024 15:22:35 GMT -5
There is also the point that the game has been out going on for 2 years. SIM/grids whatever. Surely it's time to bump up the skill level when it is getting too easy and the scoring is more Mario golf than an actual golf game. Every single flight on TGCTOURS and including TST is showing that the game is way too easy for most. Nothing about simulation but a fact that the swing is too easy on master level full stop on aids or zero aids. Is is too hard on legend, of course not just takes a bit more concentration and dare I say practice. Just seems a lot of very good players are content with easy and easy is less swing execusion and just maths and that is not the point of a good golf game with good challenging game play. Surely the pro tours and TST should be looking for a golf swing that isn't just autopilot for most half decent and also average players. Part of my issue with this dead horse is you're working under the assumption that people haven't tried legend swing or haven't tried it enough. You're also bound and determined to tell people what they should be enjoying, and difficulty-shaming" them for disagreeing with you. I'm just one guy, but I've tried Legend a bit - and it wasn't fun. We tried it on True Sim, and many who played it found it to be not fun. We tested it (IIRC) when this version of the game dropped and many found it to be not fun. I'm pro-fun in my video games and anti-not fun, simply put. Sorry you don't find Master swing fun, but glad you have other avenues to get there. I wouldn't say we're all going on about going to legend , were on about making it a little more challenging and have an unpredictable outcome , keep it masters but take the aiming marker off , just that one thing could make it more fun and interesting and take away the robot golf and mathematics |
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Post by Brenelan on Jun 1, 2024 16:11:33 GMT -5
Part of my issue with this dead horse is you're working under the assumption that people haven't tried legend swing or haven't tried it enough. You're also bound and determined to tell people what they should be enjoying, and difficulty-shaming" them for disagreeing with you. I'm just one guy, but I've tried Legend a bit - and it wasn't fun. We tried it on True Sim, and many who played it found it to be not fun. We tested it (IIRC) when this version of the game dropped and many found it to be not fun. I'm pro-fun in my video games and anti-not fun, simply put. Sorry you don't find Master swing fun, but glad you have other avenues to get there. I wouldn't say we're all going on about going to legend , were on about making it a little more challenging and have an unpredictable outcome , keep it masters but take the aiming marker off , just that one thing could make it more fun and interesting and take away the robot golf and mathematics Understood, my reply was to Hammersman since he's the most vocal regarding moving back to Legend. As an aside, you wouldn't get me within 1,000 miles of determining weekly course conditions for the Plat crowd if you took away the marker and switched to Legend. That particular Discord channel is often toxic already. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2024 16:18:01 GMT -5
There is also the point that the game has been out going on for 2 years. SIM/grids whatever. Surely it's time to bump up the skill level when it is getting too easy and the scoring is more Mario golf than an actual golf game. Every single flight on TGCTOURS and including TST is showing that the game is way too easy for most. Nothing about simulation but a fact that the swing is too easy on master level full stop on aids or zero aids. Is is too hard on legend, of course not just takes a bit more concentration and dare I say practice. Just seems a lot of very good players are content with easy and easy is less swing execusion and just maths and that is not the point of a good golf game with good challenging game play. Surely the pro tours and TST should be looking for a golf swing that isn't just autopilot for most half decent and also average players. Part of my issue with this dead horse is you're working under the assumption that people haven't tried legend swing or haven't tried it enough. You're also bound and determined to tell people what they should be enjoying, and difficulty-shaming" them for disagreeing with you. I'm just one guy, but I've tried Legend a bit - and it wasn't fun. We tried it on True Sim, and many who played it found it to be not fun. We tested it (IIRC) when this version of the game dropped and many found it to be not fun. I'm pro-fun in my video games and anti-not fun, simply put. Sorry you don't find Master swing fun, but glad you have other avenues to get there. Does it not depend on expectations of what you expect to hit with legend difficulty. To be honest when birdies become pars and pars becomes bogeys it is just another step up to compete each week. Surely it should feel good to hit a birdie and good to hit par on a tough par 4. A bogey should not be an end to your round and your chance to compete. Now everyones idea of fun is different, maybe if If I averaged +10 a round I might find it frustrating. But with all aids off and probably 200+ rounds my average is just under par. Hardly frustrating golf, I would call it exciting golf Tbh because I don't know how my round is gonna play out but many times there are surprises, is it fun @!$# yeah I love it. I think I would probably be 5 shots less with all aids on legend and Tbh I can't play the game frequently due to time constraints and think of myself as a bog standard SIM player. So is it too hard for most here, of course it isn't. So what is fun? birdie most holes and the odd bogey, tricked up unrealistic pins just to make the game more challenging or a more challenging and dare I say realistic long game with actual realistic pin placements. I will also point out there are a few players with +10 handicap and one with a +18 on TAN, every week their name is on that leaderboard even one with that +18 (a shot on every hole) member who is there every week. I actually respect these guys more than anyone else that plays the game. Not every one is just looking for a casual golf game you know. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2024 16:38:43 GMT -5
I wouldn't say we're all going on about going to legend , were on about making it a little more challenging and have an unpredictable outcome , keep it masters but take the aiming marker off , just that one thing could make it more fun and interesting and take away the robot golf and mathematics Understood, my reply was to Hammersman since he's the most vocal regarding moving back to Legend. As an aside, you wouldn't get me within 1,000 miles of determining weekly course conditions for the Plat crowd if you took away the marker and switched to Legend. That particular Discord channel is often toxic already. I have no personal interest in the current tours or TST moving back to legend unless TST took off marker also. Personally just hoping we have cross platform next game as it will be immense for the SIM community . But Tbh changes to Legend is a valid discussion surely. One stat that stands out for me today is that TST has just 4 players on the Xbox platform this week but the Xbox platform has countless SIM societies compared to PC and PS and most of those societies do not use marker. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2024 17:13:17 GMT -5
I’m probably going to duck out of the conversation for fear of beating a dead horse but I will say I’ve spoken to Hammersman a lot in this version and he genuinely does just fight his corner (for lack of a better word) out of genuine enthusiasm for the game on those settings rather than putting anyone’s gameplay choices down. And I think his tone is often just from frustration at what he thinks could be a really nice side project if you combine the status TGCT has with his and others enthusiasm for that style of play. Longpole too. I wouldn’t say either are difficulty snobs, more realism snobs and probably loud and proud at that haha but that is just a preference really. I know Hammers likes sim games, Longpole enjoys train sim, I like flight sim. I think we just all enjoy that style of game. I’m very aware of coming across like the prick that always jumps in on these discussions and hijacks them but again, it is just because I genuinely think it would add to what the tours already have. And I don’t want to put down what they already have because it’s great. But for a lot of the pro tours it IS kind of wacky golf just because of the skill level of the players relative to the mechanics. And just to use my analogy above again it’s kind of more Mario Kart than iracing. Any moaning I’ve done is, like Hammersman purely motivated out of a belief that TGCT could have a really interesting tour, or spinoff, that encourages a more grounded challenge based on mechanics rather than extreme courses and setups. Fwiw I know Charles and Hammers have both swam against a strong Tide to keep TAN afloat with personal issues and a heavy workload respectively. And I think we’re all very aware that because of just how good a job TGCT have done with rankings, awareness etc etc it’s simply very difficult to get people to branch out from what settings they go with. I do feel the settings are far from ideal now given very few are on Xbox stock controllers but look I get it. They like to have one difficulty and set of settings throughout the tours, they like broad appeal etc etc. and these are all valid points. But honestly I do think we’re missing a trick not having a tour with all assists off on real courses. Think how fun it would be to watch and play in that with the top players all playing on the hardest settings. I’ve said it before but it’s the only competitive game where the competitive scene (and tbf to Doyley I don’t think he ever wanted TGCT to be seen as that but it simply became that through its own success) is played with a lot of assists and aids and easy difficulty. And it’ll probably stay that way for reasons the guys have explained to us before and I get that. But I’ll always do peoples heads in asking for change and giving feedback. Not to flex or anything daft like that but because it would be really cool. I guess long story short. No point having a back and forth or getting antsy or anything. I’m just keen to say my piece for Hammers and Neil as I think sometimes they (and honestly, me) are painted a certain way. When really we’re all just fans of the game and the tours who see an opportunity and don’t know when to take a hint! Anyway, I’m getting daggers from my partner here to go back to The First Omen. It’s shite! 😂 |
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Post by OldManGaming606 on Jun 1, 2024 18:30:54 GMT -5
I’m probably going to duck out of the conversation for fear of beating a dead horse but I will say I’ve spoken to Hammersman a lot in this version and he genuinely does just fight his corner (for lack of a better word) out of genuine enthusiasm for the game on those settings rather than putting anyone’s gameplay choices down. And I think his tone is often just from frustration at what he thinks could be a really nice side project if you combine the status TGCT has with his and others enthusiasm for that style of play. Longpole too. I wouldn’t say either are difficulty snobs, more realism snobs and probably loud and proud at that haha but that is just a preference really. I know Hammers likes sim games, Longpole enjoys train sim, I like flight sim. I think we just all enjoy that style of game. I’m very aware of coming across like the prick that always jumps in on these discussions and hijacks them but again, it is just because I genuinely think it would add to what the tours already have. And I don’t want to put down what they already have because it’s great. But for a lot of the pro tours it IS kind of wacky golf just because of the skill level of the players relative to the mechanics. And just to use my analogy above again it’s kind of more Mario Kart than iracing. Any moaning I’ve done is, like Hammersman purely motivated out of a belief that TGCT could have a really interesting tour, or spinoff, that encourages a more grounded challenge based on mechanics rather than extreme courses and setups. Fwiw I know Charles and Hammers have both swam against a strong Tide to keep TAN afloat with personal issues and a heavy workload respectively. And I think we’re all very aware that because of just how good a job TGCT have done with rankings, awareness etc etc it’s simply very difficult to get people to branch out from what settings they go with. I do feel the settings are far from ideal now given very few are on Xbox stock controllers but look I get it. They like to have one difficulty and set of settings throughout the tours, they like broad appeal etc etc. and these are all valid points. But honestly I do think we’re missing a trick not having a tour with all assists off on real courses. Think how fun it would be to watch and play in that with the top players all playing on the hardest settings. I’ve said it before but it’s the only competitive game where the competitive scene (and tbf to Doyley I don’t think he ever wanted TGCT to be seen as that but it simply became that through its own success) is played with a lot of assists and aids and easy difficulty. And it’ll probably stay that way for reasons the guys have explained to us before and I get that. But I’ll always do peoples heads in asking for change and giving feedback. Not to flex or anything daft like that but because it would be really cool. I guess long story short. No point having a back and forth or getting antsy or anything. I’m just keen to say my piece for Hammers and Neil as I think sometimes they (and honestly, me) are painted a certain way. When really we’re all just fans of the game and the tours who see an opportunity and don’t know when to take a hint! Anyway, I’m getting daggers from my partner here to go back to The First Omen. It’s shite! 😂 I'm not sure I understand what you are saying Craig. Do you think no green grids would be better? |
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Post by longpole on Jun 2, 2024 1:08:19 GMT -5
I’m probably going to duck out of the conversation for fear of beating a dead horse but I will say I’ve spoken to Hammersman a lot in this version and he genuinely does just fight his corner (for lack of a better word) out of genuine enthusiasm for the game on those settings rather than putting anyone’s gameplay choices down. And I think his tone is often just from frustration at what he thinks could be a really nice side project if you combine the status TGCT has with his and others enthusiasm for that style of play. Longpole too. I wouldn’t say either are difficulty snobs, more realism snobs and probably loud and proud at that haha but that is just a preference really. I know Hammers likes sim games, Longpole enjoys train sim, I like flight sim. I think we just all enjoy that style of game. I’m very aware of coming across like the prick that always jumps in on these discussions and hijacks them but again, it is just because I genuinely think it would add to what the tours already have. And I don’t want to put down what they already have because it’s great. But for a lot of the pro tours it IS kind of wacky golf just because of the skill level of the players relative to the mechanics. And just to use my analogy above again it’s kind of more Mario Kart than iracing. Any moaning I’ve done is, like Hammersman purely motivated out of a belief that TGCT could have a really interesting tour, or spinoff, that encourages a more grounded challenge based on mechanics rather than extreme courses and setups. Fwiw I know Charles and Hammers have both swam against a strong Tide to keep TAN afloat with personal issues and a heavy workload respectively. And I think we’re all very aware that because of just how good a job TGCT have done with rankings, awareness etc etc it’s simply very difficult to get people to branch out from what settings they go with. I do feel the settings are far from ideal now given very few are on Xbox stock controllers but look I get it. They like to have one difficulty and set of settings throughout the tours, they like broad appeal etc etc. and these are all valid points. But honestly I do think we’re missing a trick not having a tour with all assists off on real courses. Think how fun it would be to watch and play in that with the top players all playing on the hardest settings. I’ve said it before but it’s the only competitive game where the competitive scene (and tbf to Doyley I don’t think he ever wanted TGCT to be seen as that but it simply became that through its own success) is played with a lot of assists and aids and easy difficulty. And it’ll probably stay that way for reasons the guys have explained to us before and I get that. But I’ll always do peoples heads in asking for change and giving feedback. Not to flex or anything daft like that but because it would be really cool. I guess long story short. No point having a back and forth or getting antsy or anything. I’m just keen to say my piece for Hammers and Neil as I think sometimes they (and honestly, me) are painted a certain way. When really we’re all just fans of the game and the tours who see an opportunity and don’t know when to take a hint! Anyway, I’m getting daggers from my partner here to go back to The First Omen. It’s shite! 😂 I'm not sure I understand what you are saying Craig. Do you think no green grids would be better? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Alan think Craig probably meaning no green grids on the true sim tour , it's the marker which is the real issue with the tour . There's so many players that play true sim on xbox without the marker , but on tgc true sim tour only 4 players finished . I would gladly help run it if they made the change there. I think the main subject Alan is players have become very good on this game and especially xbox who have now been given a chance at a more level playing field with PC & ps , Just change it up slightly either shove the pro tours (platinum) on legend , or keep it on masters but take the aiming marker away . Make it a little more interesting plus it gives the option to pick more real courses and have easier course conditions instead of the sillyness fantasy courses with silly slopes everywhere . Tgc tours best society out there absolutely no doubt great peeps running 🏃♂️ it . But majority of the peeps playing it especially at the top are very competitive and a little change to make it a little more challenging wouldn't do it any harm wot so ever imo . Keep CC as is there's the more casual tour . |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2024 1:15:45 GMT -5
OldManGaming606 in my opinion and it is just that it’s not a complaint, but if you want to have a serious competitive scene that’s even slightly realistic ( and most may not, which is fine obviously) then yeah I think you have to have no green grids and no marker. We’ve all played this game so long now grids are essentially putt preview when coupled with the precision of the marker and vibration distance control.
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