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Post by fransslabak on Nov 10, 2022 6:32:17 GMT -5
Excellent discussion peeps - thanks! (And maybe time to conclude that what needed to be said has been said now?  ) Very helpful for me as scheduler AND as a player. RCRs it is!!!* Best wishes, Frans *Do allow me poetic freedom for a few more weeks/months until enough RCRs are available to replicate the IRL PGA (sometimes DB) schedule as much as possible (either with the exact course or a similar/nearby course). |
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Post by paddyjk19 on Nov 10, 2022 6:35:19 GMT -5
Excellent discussion peeps - thanks! (And maybe time to conclude what needed to be said has been said? ) Very helpful for me as scheduler AND as a player. RCRs it is!!!* Best wishes, Frans *Do allow me poetic freedom for a few more weeks/months until enough RCRs are available to replicate the IRL PGA (sometimes DB) schedule as much as possible (either with the exact course or a similar/nearby course). Personally, I’d rather substitute the exact PGA course if the recreation is average or not as good as some non tour used recreations. Namely with a few of 2ks attempts at real courses but I also see lots of famous courses done very poorly by designers too |
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Post by Art Vandelay on Nov 10, 2022 9:12:23 GMT -5
Quite shocked as I expected to struggle mightily in TST as I have not been able to break par much in the new game. -1 and -3 for starters. Shocking. Worse yet it should have been three shots better if I had not taken a nap on 15 in the second round and just hit putts like they were going on sale. Onward! Finished at level with a symmetric +1 and +3 (last round thanks to a bit of pong on 16 for a Quad Humph). Still shocked at how well I did. Onward! |
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Post by williamwes626 on Nov 10, 2022 9:40:41 GMT -5
Excellent discussion peeps - thanks! (And maybe time to conclude that what needed to be said has been said now? ) Very helpful for me as scheduler AND as a player. RCRs it is!!!* Best wishes, Frans *Do allow me poetic freedom for a few more weeks/months until enough RCRs are available to replicate the IRL PGA (sometimes DB) schedule as much as possible (either with the exact course or a similar/nearby course). I'll add my 2 VC to the pile. It's not quite pay-to-win but it's got a similar idea. I think if VC was like last year and we got 250 VC almost every round, the balls wouldn't feel as expensive and not tempt people to use real money. That said, the good side to this is that people who put more time in with the game get rewarded with more of these balls. A lot of times I read people say they don't have time for the game, but if that's the case, then that person's expectations on how well they play should be lowered anyway. Someone who plays 10 times a week SHOULD do better than someone who plays 3 times a week. There has to be a way to challenge the 3 types of players we'll split into... Players always comfy using specialized balls - they need a challenge of slower greens - something slow enough that will force them to decide if they want to deal with it or use a default ball. ------- Players always comfy using default balls - they need a challenge of fast greens - something fast enough that will force them to decide if they want to deal with it or use a specialized ball. Because VC is rare, this may have to be limited. I can see a round once in a while, or for majors and significant tourneys getting faster green speeds - they manipulate fast green speeds in real life for majors. ----- Players who sometimes use them depending on how much VC they have at the moment - they'll get a challenge if the scheduling has a wide range of green speeds 110-180 let's say, then these types of players can strategize when and when not to use a specialized ball. I'm in this category - so I'm seeing a major coming up on the schedule, I may hold off using specialized balls for that tourney for example. Frans, you'd also have to think about whether you want to tell us beforehand about really fast or slow greens, we may need to save up VC, or if you want to surprise us. |
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doovy
Caddy
Posts: 2
TGCT Name: Alex Doovy
Tour: TST
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Post by doovy on Nov 10, 2022 10:28:18 GMT -5
Been 2 years since I've been "active" in TGCTours events, and decided to give it a go again for the new game. Just want to say that True Sim has always been my favorite Tour to participate in, and I wanted to give a quick thank you for continuing this over time, so thank you! These games have always been more enjoyable for me when I make them as close to simulation golf as possible, although that might be because I legitimately play better without the green grids! This first week was no different there hah. Anyway, excited to be back, and to play some rounds here and there!  |
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Post by InsanericK on Nov 10, 2022 14:41:59 GMT -5
《Consumable balls are modifying the conditions》
Time to test this folks! As the title of video says, let's play a game!!
So basically, in the default corner, we have people claiming that consumable balls are modifying the conditions.
In the red corner, I say the equivalance principal of real physics can be apply in this video game
So a quick crash course on equivalent principal before we play: when you are in a moving train, the ONLY proof you have that the train is moving forward is informations. You enter that train and you felt the acceleration moving forward. It did push back in your seat. That's your only proof, cause when that train is moving steady, moving forward at 100mph North or being static and have the landscape move South at 100 mph is IMPOSSIBLE to distinguish. It would look the same and you would arrive at your destination on the same exact time. Another very good and simple example of this is: imagine 2 spaceships in pitch black space. No stars or no light to rely on. It's black everywhere. We have 2 spaceships. One that dosent move and the other one moving at 100000 mph. If one spaceship moves at this high speed near the other one, they would both see the same thing. None of the 2 spaceships could say: I'm the one moving and the other one is static. The only way one of the 2 could know he's the one in action would be because he felt the acceleration pushing him back in his seat. If they were both alseep while take off and woke up in space without having a clue of what's going on, they would never know even after a million year wich one is moving and wich one is not.
Same principal apply here in this game. If I'm blocking you the information (aka the acceleration in my the real example), you will never be able to tell if the conditions are changing or my ball is different.
So go ahead, prove me wrong. Here's 3 times the same exact hole. Did I play that 3 times with default ball and changed the conditions? Did I play that 3 times with the same conditions and change the ball to modify the conditions? A mix of both? I dunno, you tell me. Should be very easy to spot conditions change if you are right
If you can tell the good answers for the 3 holes (wind speed, green speed and the ball used), I'll send anyone who get this right on first try 100 USD.
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Post by paddyjk19 on Nov 10, 2022 17:14:25 GMT -5
《Consumable balls are modifying the conditions》 Time to test this folks! As the title of video says, let's play a game!! So basically, in the default corner, we have people claiming that consumable balls are modifying the conditions. In the red corner, I say the equivalance principal of real physics can be apply in this video game So a quick crash course on equivalent principal before we play: when you are in a moving train, the ONLY proof you have that the train is moving forward is informations. You enter that train and you felt the acceleration moving forward. It did push back in your seat. That's your only proof, cause when that train is moving steady, moving forward at 100mph North or being static and have the landscape move South at 100 mph is IMPOSSIBLE to distinguish. It would look the same and you would arrive at your destination on the same exact time. Another very good and simple example of this is: imagine 2 spaceships in pitch black space. No stars or no light to rely on. It's black everywhere. We have 2 spaceships. One that dosent move and the other one moving at 100000 mph. If one spaceship moves at this high speed near the other one, they would both see the same thing. None of the 2 spaceships could say: I'm the one moving and the other one is static. The only way one of the 2 could know he's the one in action would be because he felt the acceleration pushing him back in his seat. If they were both alseep while take off and woke up in space without having a clue of what's going on, they would never know even after a million year wich one is moving and wich one is not. Same principal apply here in this game. If I'm blocking you the information (aka the acceleration in my the real example), you will never be able to tell if the conditions are changing or my ball is different. So go ahead, prove me wrong. Here's 3 times the same exact hole. Did I play that 3 times with default ball and changed the conditions? Did I play that 3 times with the same conditions and change the ball to modify the conditions? A mix of both? I dunno, you tell me. Should be very easy to spot conditions change if you are right If you can tell the good answers for the 3 holes (wind speed, green speed and the ball used), I'll send anyone who get this right on first try 100 USD. You are taking this too literally and focusing on the wrong thing. Let me simplify it for you. When golfers play tournaments in real life, they all play the greens at the same speed, as in the greens have an X Stimp Meter rating. None of their balls roll less or travel at less speed in relation to the impact force when used with a putter, The roll CONDITIONS are exactly the same. Granted at impacts strong enough to deform the ball, the compression rating of the ball can impact the speed transferred from the club to the ball - A lower compression ball deforms more and loses speed compared to a higher compression ball. With a putter there is no compression factor under normal use as the N from the club is not great enough. It doesn't matter whether someone refers to this as "changing the conditions of the course" or "using a ball with less roll", they are referring to the same thing - players playing a course where the greens have different roll characteristics from one player to the next in the same round, which is nothing like real golf. Sending chapter and verse about the physics of speed and relative theory does not alter that last point. That said, it seems most folks, myself included, have accepted the fact that 2k have included a stupid alterable characteristic by making the ball roll adjustable. We will just have to make the best of it. |
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Post by beef on Nov 10, 2022 17:20:23 GMT -5
《Consumable balls are modifying the conditions》 Time to test this folks! As the title of video says, let's play a game!! So basically, in the default corner, we have people claiming that consumable balls are modifying the conditions. In the red corner, I say the equivalance principal of real physics can be apply in this video game So a quick crash course on equivalent principal before we play: when you are in a moving train, the ONLY proof you have that the train is moving forward is informations. You enter that train and you felt the acceleration moving forward. It did push back in your seat. That's your only proof, cause when that train is moving steady, moving forward at 100mph North or being static and have the landscape move South at 100 mph is IMPOSSIBLE to distinguish. It would look the same and you would arrive at your destination on the same exact time. Another very good and simple example of this is: imagine 2 spaceships in pitch black space. No stars or no light to rely on. It's black everywhere. We have 2 spaceships. One that dosent move and the other one moving at 100000 mph. If one spaceship moves at this high speed near the other one, they would both see the same thing. None of the 2 spaceships could say: I'm the one moving and the other one is static. The only way one of the 2 could know he's the one in action would be because he felt the acceleration pushing him back in his seat. If they were both alseep while take off and woke up in space without having a clue of what's going on, they would never know even after a million year wich one is moving and wich one is not. Same principal apply here in this game. If I'm blocking you the information (aka the acceleration in my the real example), you will never be able to tell if the conditions are changing or my ball is different. So go ahead, prove me wrong. Here's 3 times the same exact hole. Did I play that 3 times with default ball and changed the conditions? Did I play that 3 times with the same conditions and change the ball to modify the conditions? A mix of both? I dunno, you tell me. Should be very easy to spot conditions change if you are right If you can tell the good answers for the 3 holes (wind speed, green speed and the ball used), I'll send anyone who get this right on first try 100 USD. You're massively overthinking this m8. It's a golf video game, the real life laws of physics aren't necessarily going to apply. Not to mention your sample size is far, far too small. Playing your approaches and putts from different spots doesn't help either. Green speeds can change the nature of slopes on the greens. A green and yellow slope at 155 can be a yellow and red slope at 187. If I can play a particular ball that changes the colour of the slope and I can hold the slope instead of rolling away, I have 'changed' the conditions of the course. If you pause the video at 1.04 and again at 2.19 the red/yellow slope at the edge of the green looks different. It is of course a slightly different angle, which may be contributing to this. PM me and I'll tell you where to send my 100 bucks |
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Post by InsanericK on Nov 10, 2022 17:42:37 GMT -5
《Consumable balls are modifying the conditions》 Time to test this folks! As the title of video says, let's play a game!! So basically, in the default corner, we have people claiming that consumable balls are modifying the conditions. In the red corner, I say the equivalance principal of real physics can be apply in this video game So a quick crash course on equivalent principal before we play: when you are in a moving train, the ONLY proof you have that the train is moving forward is informations. You enter that train and you felt the acceleration moving forward. It did push back in your seat. That's your only proof, cause when that train is moving steady, moving forward at 100mph North or being static and have the landscape move South at 100 mph is IMPOSSIBLE to distinguish. It would look the same and you would arrive at your destination on the same exact time. Another very good and simple example of this is: imagine 2 spaceships in pitch black space. No stars or no light to rely on. It's black everywhere. We have 2 spaceships. One that dosent move and the other one moving at 100000 mph. If one spaceship moves at this high speed near the other one, they would both see the same thing. None of the 2 spaceships could say: I'm the one moving and the other one is static. The only way one of the 2 could know he's the one in action would be because he felt the acceleration pushing him back in his seat. If they were both alseep while take off and woke up in space without having a clue of what's going on, they would never know even after a million year wich one is moving and wich one is not. Same principal apply here in this game. If I'm blocking you the information (aka the acceleration in my the real example), you will never be able to tell if the conditions are changing or my ball is different. So go ahead, prove me wrong. Here's 3 times the same exact hole. Did I play that 3 times with default ball and changed the conditions? Did I play that 3 times with the same conditions and change the ball to modify the conditions? A mix of both? I dunno, you tell me. Should be very easy to spot conditions change if you are right If you can tell the good answers for the 3 holes (wind speed, green speed and the ball used), I'll send anyone who get this right on first try 100 USD. You are taking this too literally and focusing on the wrong thing. Let me simplify it for you. When golfers play tournaments in real life, they all play the greens at the same speed, as in the greens have an X Stimp Meter rating. None of their balls roll less or travel at less speed in relation to the impact force when used with a putter, The roll CONDITIONS are exactly the same. Granted at impacts strong enough to deform the ball, the compression rating of the ball can impact the speed transferred from the club to the ball - A lower compression ball deforms more and loses speed compared to a higher compression ball. With a putter there is no compression factor under normal use as the N from the club is not great enough. It doesn't matter whether someone refers to this as "changing the conditions of the course" or "using a ball with less roll", they are referring to the same thing - players playing a course where the greens have different roll characteristics from one player to the next in the same round, which is nothing like real golf. Sending chapter and verse about the physics of speed and relative theory does not alter that last point. That said, it seems most folks, myself included, have accepted the fact that 2k have included a stupid alterable characteristic by making the ball roll adjustable. We will just have to make the best of it. And I'm having fun with this! I will keep making these, wheter you like or not! You still don't get the simple fact that a different ball will have different outcome. The way of making that change is irrevelant. If you had never played the game and could not see the green speed change and say "hey I had 187 greens and him 163, I'm disavanatge and we played in different conditions" and "we all played the same conditions and he had a better ball", you couldn't tell what is true. Better ball, or same ball with different conditions. 2 paths leading at the same place, indistinguishable one from another. But you accepted that whole fact, playing the game the way it was intended will be more fun, I can garantee it! 😀 |
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Post by paddyjk19 on Nov 10, 2022 18:02:45 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2022 0:31:55 GMT -5
You are taking this too literally and focusing on the wrong thing. Let me simplify it for you. When golfers play tournaments in real life, they all play the greens at the same speed, as in the greens have an X Stimp Meter rating. None of their balls roll less or travel at less speed in relation to the impact force when used with a putter, The roll CONDITIONS are exactly the same. Granted at impacts strong enough to deform the ball, the compression rating of the ball can impact the speed transferred from the club to the ball - A lower compression ball deforms more and loses speed compared to a higher compression ball. With a putter there is no compression factor under normal use as the N from the club is not great enough. It doesn't matter whether someone refers to this as "changing the conditions of the course" or "using a ball with less roll", they are referring to the same thing - players playing a course where the greens have different roll characteristics from one player to the next in the same round, which is nothing like real golf. Sending chapter and verse about the physics of speed and relative theory does not alter that last point. That said, it seems most folks, myself included, have accepted the fact that 2k have included a stupid alterable characteristic by making the ball roll adjustable. We will just have to make the best of it. And I'm having fun with this! I will keep making these, wheter you like or not! You still don't get the simple fact that a different ball will have different outcome. The way of making that change is irrevelant. If you had never played the game and could not see the green speed change and say "hey I had 187 greens and him 163, I'm disavanatge and we played in different conditions" and "we all played the same conditions and he had a better ball", you couldn't tell what is true. Better ball, or same ball with different conditions. 2 paths leading at the same place, indistinguishable one from another. But you accepted that whole fact, playing the game the way it was intended will be more fun, I can garantee it! 😀 I think you are stuck in arcade la la land. If you think you are convincing anyone that plays the real game of golf that these golf balls are realistic you have lost it. These arcade golf balls might be fun to you but they are a huge step back in HB's golf games. For an equal competitive stand point it also stinks because everyone is playing the course at different difficulties, no a magic golf ball should be there to make the set up easier for everyone if they desire. I said my last words on this, I really think it's the worse thing that HB have done to their golf games. I will only be playing societies where everyone actually plays the same course conditions as I find that more fun and much more realistic. |
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Post by InsanericK on Nov 11, 2022 0:41:20 GMT -5
And I'm having fun with this! I will keep making these, wheter you like or not! You still don't get the simple fact that a different ball will have different outcome. The way of making that change is irrevelant. If you had never played the game and could not see the green speed change and say "hey I had 187 greens and him 163, I'm disavanatge and we played in different conditions" and "we all played the same conditions and he had a better ball", you couldn't tell what is true. Better ball, or same ball with different conditions. 2 paths leading at the same place, indistinguishable one from another. But you accepted that whole fact, playing the game the way it was intended will be more fun, I can garantee it! 😀 I think you are stuck in arcade la la land. If you think you are convincing anyone that plays the real game of golf that these golf balls are realistic you have lost it. These arcade golf balls might be fun to you but they are a huge step back in HB's golf games. For an equal competitive stand point it also stinks because everyone is playing the course a different difficulties and no a magic golf ball should be there to make the set up easier for everyone if they desire. I said my last words on this, I really think it's the worse thing that HB have done to their golf games. I will only be playing societies where everyone actually plays the same course conditions as I find that more fun and much more realistic. Alright, I stop. You all got me with these good arguments. I see the light. This is stupid. A legendary ball should also have very fast green of 187, like the default ball. They would now both be the same unplayable ball in the same conditions. Fair for all skills, fat or thin wallets! And don't forget; A purple ball a day keeps the double-bogey away! |
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Post by fadgewacker on Nov 11, 2022 3:36:24 GMT -5
And I'm having fun with this! I will keep making these, wheter you like or not! You still don't get the simple fact that a different ball will have different outcome. The way of making that change is irrevelant. If you had never played the game and could not see the green speed change and say "hey I had 187 greens and him 163, I'm disavanatge and we played in different conditions" and "we all played the same conditions and he had a better ball", you couldn't tell what is true. Better ball, or same ball with different conditions. 2 paths leading at the same place, indistinguishable one from another. But you accepted that whole fact, playing the game the way it was intended will be more fun, I can garantee it! 😀 I will only be playing societies where everyone actually plays the same course conditions as I find that more fun and much more realistic. Well, good luck with that outside of your own very small sample size of societies mate, which is a real shame. Q - As you're not going to play TST, will you just go back to playing 2K21? |
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Post by zzfr33b1rdzz on Nov 11, 2022 13:10:27 GMT -5
My 2 VC - if a green is set as Firm/Fast - regardless of the ball you use - the green is still set as Firm/Fast. The choice of ball will of course mean that you have to hit the putt harder or slower - but the green is still set as Firm/Fast..
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Post by fransslabak on Nov 11, 2022 13:13:35 GMT -5
My 2 VC - if a green is set as Firm/Fast - regardless of the ball you use - the green is still set as Firm/Fast. The choice of ball will of course mean that you have to hit the putt harder or slower - but the green is still set as Firm/Fast.. Spoken as a scheduler!!! |
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