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Post by InsanericK on Nov 9, 2022 19:42:27 GMT -5
It's not pay to win lads... I think we can agree that you need to pay VC to get consumable balls, because that is a fact. I think we can also agree that certain balls will make the game easier for you in certain conditions, because that is a fact. So you pay for something which gives you an advantage. Well, per definition, that is pay to win. And yeah, doesn't hurt people that much when they've got coins to spare - same applies with real money. The amount you've got to spare doesn't change the purpose, it only changes the willingness to invest. That is pay to win 101. It's no rocket science and sadly it's no surprise as 2k is involved. You can sugarcoat it all you want, but it doesn't change the facts. Pay to win is buying stuff with your real credit card. You don't have to here, even going legendary for their 4-8-12 important rounds pf the week.on TGCTOURS is affordable for everyone What you're doing is just refusing to upgrade the game. Keeping the default ball or not putting fittings on your clubs is the same. They both cost VC and then, fittings are a pay to win too in your philosphy. And I'll keep pounding on this for a while. I really dont care that you guys pick the worst ball of the game to prove a point. What I care is newbees calling the game unplayable and.now crying they won't get a tour card on first day cause they listened to people like you |
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Post by paddyjk19 on Nov 9, 2022 20:55:18 GMT -5
I think we can agree that you need to pay VC to get consumable balls, because that is a fact. I think we can also agree that certain balls will make the game easier for you in certain conditions, because that is a fact. So you pay for something which gives you an advantage. Well, per definition, that is pay to win. And yeah, doesn't hurt people that much when they've got coins to spare - same applies with real money. The amount you've got to spare doesn't change the purpose, it only changes the willingness to invest. That is pay to win 101. It's no rocket science and sadly it's no surprise as 2k is involved. You can sugarcoat it all you want, but it doesn't change the facts. Pay to win is buying stuff with your real credit card. You don't have to here, even going legendary for their 4-8-12 important rounds pf the week.on TGCTOURS is affordable for everyone What you're doing is just refusing to upgrade the game. Keeping the default ball or not putting fittings on your clubs is the same. They both cost VC and then, fittings are a pay to win too in your philosphy. And I'll keep pounding on this for a while. I really dont care that you guys pick the worst ball of the game to prove a point. What I care is newbees calling the game unplayable and.now crying they won't get a tour card on first day cause they listened to people like you Fair point, got any case studies of that happening? All I’ve seen so far is a long winded rant having a pop at people who would prefer to have a default ball across the board. We’ve all accepted that in the current state TGCT is open for all the balls, the choice is ours, nobody has tried to blame those using upgraded balls and likewise I don’t see what the point is in digging out those who choose default or don’t want to use their limited VC on balls YET. I’m not sure why you’re so insulted by those who use a default ball but each to their own I suppose. Best of luck for the season |
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Post by InsanericK on Nov 9, 2022 21:39:45 GMT -5
Pay to win is buying stuff with your real credit card. You don't have to here, even going legendary for their 4-8-12 important rounds pf the week.on TGCTOURS is affordable for everyone What you're doing is just refusing to upgrade the game. Keeping the default ball or not putting fittings on your clubs is the same. They both cost VC and then, fittings are a pay to win too in your philosphy. And I'll keep pounding on this for a while. I really dont care that you guys pick the worst ball of the game to prove a point. What I care is newbees calling the game unplayable and.now crying they won't get a tour card on first day cause they listened to people like you Fair point, got any case studies of that happening? All I’ve seen so far is a long winded rant having a pop at people who would prefer to have a default ball across the board. We’ve all accepted that in the current state TGCT is open for all the balls, the choice is ours, nobody has tried to blame those using upgraded balls and likewise I don’t see what the point is in digging out those who choose default or don’t want to use their limited VC on balls YET. I’m not sure why you’re so insulted by those who use a default ball but each to their own I suppose. Best of luck for the season And I was one of these people. 2nd day of the game, then I tested it and understood these balls don't change the conditions. Saying it like this is a blatant lie without considering the equivalence principle. Legendary balls are just better, like you would expect from any games having legendary vs Walmart stuff in the game. And I won't tag players here to prove my point. They are everywhere, check on Facebook groups too. And like I said, play with the ball you want, I don't give a damn. But very fast greens should be set as much as moderates conditions in a league well known for it's simulation settings. PGA green speed are on average at 12. Around 176. A simulation league should reflect that. There's 21 balls in the game, adapting conditions to one of them is a bad idea for a simulation league |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2022 1:04:28 GMT -5
I think we can agree that you need to pay VC to get consumable balls, because that is a fact. I think we can also agree that certain balls will make the game easier for you in certain conditions, because that is a fact. So you pay for something which gives you an advantage. Well, per definition, that is pay to win. And yeah, doesn't hurt people that much when they've got coins to spare - same applies with real money. The amount you've got to spare doesn't change the purpose, it only changes the willingness to invest. That is pay to win 101. It's no rocket science and sadly it's no surprise as 2k is involved. You can sugarcoat it all you want, but it doesn't change the facts. Pay to win is buying stuff with your real credit card. You don't have to here, even going legendary for their 4-8-12 important rounds pf the week.on TGCTOURS is affordable for everyone What you're doing is just refusing to upgrade the game. Keeping the default ball or not putting fittings on your clubs is the same. They both cost VC and then, fittings are a pay to win too in your philosphy. And I'll keep pounding on this for a while. I really dont care that you guys pick the worst ball of the game to prove a point. What I care is newbees calling the game unplayable and.now crying they won't get a tour card on first day cause they listened to people like you So you sell up your unused fittings and decide to stop playing the awful career career mode. The game is certainly not generous with dishing out VC. Some people just like playing a few society rounds each week, they are hardly going to have fat VC wallets in the game. It might not be pay to win if you spend the hundreds of hours you put in but it is certainly there to tempt people that don't. |
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Post by InsanericK on Nov 10, 2022 1:32:23 GMT -5
Pay to win is buying stuff with your real credit card. You don't have to here, even going legendary for their 4-8-12 important rounds pf the week.on TGCTOURS is affordable for everyone What you're doing is just refusing to upgrade the game. Keeping the default ball or not putting fittings on your clubs is the same. They both cost VC and then, fittings are a pay to win too in your philosphy. And I'll keep pounding on this for a while. I really dont care that you guys pick the worst ball of the game to prove a point. What I care is newbees calling the game unplayable and.now crying they won't get a tour card on first day cause they listened to people like you So you sell up your unused fittings and decide to stop playing the awful career career mode. The game is certainly not generous with dishing out VC. Some people just like playing a few society rounds each week, they are hardly going to have fat VC wallets in the game. It might not be pay to win if you spend the hundreds of hours you put in but it is certainly there to tempt people that don't. 12 Purple balls, 750 VC Playing 12 Rounds, around 750 VC back Debunking you is easy |
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Post by paddyjk19 on Nov 10, 2022 3:17:18 GMT -5
So you sell up your unused fittings and decide to stop playing the awful career career mode. The game is certainly not generous with dishing out VC. Some people just like playing a few society rounds each week, they are hardly going to have fat VC wallets in the game. It might not be pay to win if you spend the hundreds of hours you put in but it is certainly there to tempt people that don't. 12 Purple balls, 750 VC Playing 12 Rounds, around 750 VC back Debunking you is easy Yes, and fitting legendary fittings to a set of irons is 1500 VC, do it for all three components = 4500 VC His point is that if someone isn’t able to grind career now societies are up and running, they are going to prioritise skulking their player at this stage. It’s what we’ve been saying all along - using conditions that make legendary balls essential at an early stage is unfair on those starting out. If we had a setup that made it impossible to use a default ball, and that player didn’t have enough VC for all four rounds, they’re going to have a bad time. Like I said before, just give it some time. Nobody has said don’t even use very fast in the future, there’s just been a call for balance with it. |
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Post by fadgewacker on Nov 10, 2022 4:00:25 GMT -5
It's not pay to win lads... I think we can agree that you need to pay VC to get consumable balls, because that is a fact. I think we can also agree that certain balls will make the game easier for you in certain conditions, because that is a fact. So you pay for something which gives you an advantage. Well, per definition, that is pay to win. And yeah, doesn't hurt people that much when they've got coins to spare - same applies with real money. The amount you've got to spare doesn't change the purpose, it only changes the willingness to invest. That is pay to win 101. It's no rocket science and sadly it's no surprise as 2k is involved. You can sugarcoat it all you want, but it doesn't change the facts. Sorry, but that's utter tripe. How much do those VC cost you? Pay to win, my arse. It's an on trend phrase being rolled out because people don't like how certain aspects of the game have changed. Unhelpful sensationalism. All it is, is a gameplay economy loop that has some hooks to fool the gullible or trick the impatient into spending real money. Is it also pay to win re the club fittings? They're a bigger VC sink than balls, but are less controversial as they don't (ridiculously) change green speeds and course firmness. Part of the game in 2K23, and this is a fact, is management of the economic side as to how you distribute your VC relative to your club fittings and / or balls. If you choose not to spend on balls as you're a purist, that is entirely your decision, and unsurprisingly (to almost anyone with a history in video games), if you don't invest some of the free, virtual money that the game gives you into the upgrade path for balls, you will be at a disadvantage in some way (mainly carry distance). Nothing is locked behind a pay wall, and nothing is so extortionately expensive that it is out of reach, with a little management. From one level of ball to the next, there is not a game breaking leap in abilities either. For instance, I'll play purple aviators for competitive rounds until I have my bag finished, then I'll play gold/reds or whatever colour the next ones are, as I'll have nothing else to spend the VC on. Are there people that can afford to play the best balls 100% of the time now? Yes. There are, as they are the people that have either A) put much more time into the game than I (how video game progression works) , or B) have paid real money for VC (an option afforded to anyone). That is a choice. It's not pay to win, by any stretch. By virtue of your logic - any game that has a levelling up system which uses in game currency (there are millions of them), is pay to win? The latest God Of War came out yesterday... Pay to win! Scandal. Elden Ring... Pay to win! Gran Turismo (that I've never spent a penny of real money in game on...) Pay to win! Sorry, but I strongly disagree with you that this is pay to win. Choose to upgrade your balls, fittings or save your VC for a rainy day - it's your choice. |
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Post by fadgewacker on Nov 10, 2022 4:08:02 GMT -5
Thanks all for the discussion - be nice to each other in the remainder of it, please... just so that your scheduler can keep learning from it!  My take on it is simple: no point in discussing whether it's wrong that there are different balls; they are part of the game and we'll have to deal with them. Some will like them, some will hate them. But, unless we hear otherwise, we have to assume they are here to stay (and, as explained by quite a few on these forums already, we'll be able to "pay" for them by simply playing the game once we have all advanced to higher levels and fitted our clubs). As a scheduler, for now, I'll try to keep things playable with different balls BUT I suspect there will come a time - maybe even sooner rather than later - that I'll be forced to make a decision on (1) including a great RCR of a top IRL course played that week on the IRL PGA but accepting that it can only be played in "normal conditions" with specific ball types OR (2) dumb down the greens to butter OR (3) not use the RCR at all. You tell me what you think I should do... Use the RCR Frans. Let the people playing the game work out the best way to attack it. The game is what it is, and the options are there for everyone (no matter how much we disagree with the properties of some of them). |
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Post by fadgewacker on Nov 10, 2022 4:47:12 GMT -5
Pay to win is buying stuff with your real credit card. You don't have to here, even going legendary for their 4-8-12 important rounds pf the week.on TGCTOURS is affordable for everyone What you're doing is just refusing to upgrade the game. Keeping the default ball or not putting fittings on your clubs is the same. They both cost VC and then, fittings are a pay to win too in your philosphy. And I'll keep pounding on this for a while. I really dont care that you guys pick the worst ball of the game to prove a point. What I care is newbees calling the game unplayable and.now crying they won't get a tour card on first day cause they listened to people like you So you sell up your unused fittings and decide to stop playing the awful career career mode. The game is certainly not generous with dishing out VC. Some people just like playing a few society rounds each week, they are hardly going to have fat VC wallets in the game. It might not be pay to win if you spend the hundreds of hours you put in but it is certainly there to tempt people that don't. Just FYI - you still get fittings etc that you can upgrade or deconstruct from society rounds, they just don't flash up on your screen, they just go straight to your inventory. Career is certainly the most profitable way of progression due to the rivals scheme, but fittings do still come from elsewhere. |
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Post by fadgewacker on Nov 10, 2022 4:53:19 GMT -5
12 Purple balls, 750 VC Playing 12 Rounds, around 750 VC back Debunking you is easy Yes, and fitting legendary fittings to a set of irons is 1500 VC, do it for all three components = 4500 VC His point is that if someone isn’t able to grind career now societies are up and running, they are going to prioritise skulking their player at this stage. It’s what we’ve been saying all along - using conditions that make legendary balls essential at an early stage is unfair on those starting out. If we had a setup that made it impossible to use a default ball, and that player didn’t have enough VC for all four rounds, they’re going to have a bad time. Like I said before, just give it some time. Nobody has said don’t even use very fast in the future, there’s just been a call for balance with it. A little trick - AND PLEASE DONT TELL HB/2K - If you play all your rounds in one sitting, without backing out to check conditions, you only consume 1 ball over 4 rounds. 12 Purple balls, 750 VC 750 / 12 = 62.5 VC per ball Per round, as long as you don't go over the hole limit for score, so essentially every single round, you get 25VC 25 * 4 = 100 37.5 VC in profit over 4 round societies 12.5 VC deficit over 2 round societies 37.5VC deficit for one round societies Then factor in the progression VC over 4, 8, 12 rounds etc... It's more than manageable, with only a very little planning. I've said all along - nothing against default balls or anyone that decides to play them, and doesn't moan they're at a disadvantage - they play well. I use them in casual rounds, but for rounds that matter, I'll be sure to use something that gives an advantage (aviators). |
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Post by longpole on Nov 10, 2022 4:54:42 GMT -5
I'm not 100% against these ball sleeves and they add a little more course management to the game but the biggest point is that they CHANGE GREEN SPEEDS which is an absolute JOKE , every body should be playing the same green speed whether u choose wot ever ball . Some peeps here live on the game like insanerick who has loads of coins and say everybody buy the balls it's in game , most people on this game literally plays an hr a night after a day at work and some time with the family , chill out time . Would like to compete in a few societies but can't so basically all there time would be spent in career mode for months and months to come just so they can perhaps compete with you one day ,
The change of green speeds are an absolute JOKE.
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Post by paddyjk19 on Nov 10, 2022 5:03:43 GMT -5
Yes, and fitting legendary fittings to a set of irons is 1500 VC, do it for all three components = 4500 VC His point is that if someone isn’t able to grind career now societies are up and running, they are going to prioritise skulking their player at this stage. It’s what we’ve been saying all along - using conditions that make legendary balls essential at an early stage is unfair on those starting out. If we had a setup that made it impossible to use a default ball, and that player didn’t have enough VC for all four rounds, they’re going to have a bad time. Like I said before, just give it some time. Nobody has said don’t even use very fast in the future, there’s just been a call for balance with it. A little trick - AND PLEASE DONT TELL HB/2K - If you play all your rounds in one sitting, without backing out to check conditions, you only consume 1 ball over 4 rounds. 12 Purple balls, 750 VC 750 / 12 = 62.5 VC per ball Per round, as long as you don't go over the hole limit for score, so essentially every single round, you get 25VC 25 * 4 = 100 37.5 VC in profit over 4 round societies 12.5 VC deficit over 2 round societies 37.5VC deficit for one round societies Then factor in the progression VC over 4, 8, 12 rounds etc... It's more than manageable, with only a very little planning. I've said all along - nothing against default balls or anyone that decides to play them, and doesn't moan they're at a disadvantage - they play well. I use them in casual rounds, but for rounds that matter, I'll be sure to use something that gives an advantage (aviators). Good to know! Thanks |
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Post by fadgewacker on Nov 10, 2022 5:05:25 GMT -5
I'm not 100% against these ball sleeves and they add a little more course management to the game but the biggest point is that they CHANGE GREEN SPEEDS which is an absolute JOKE , every body should be playing the same green speed whether u choose wot ever ball . Some peeps here live on the game like insanerick who has loads of coins and say everybody buy the balls it's in game , most people on this game literally plays an hr a night after a day at work and some time with the family , chill out time . Would like to compete in a few societies but can't so basically all there time would be spent in career mode for months and months to come just so they can perhaps compete with you one day , The change of green speeds are an absolute JOKE. Everyone agrees the ball changing green speeds is a joke. The rest of your post is more pure sensationalism re the size of the problem. I think my post above explains it reasonably well, but if people want to play better balls and feel that they can't afford to, its down only to the fact they made a decision to spend the VC they have on something else. If some people play the game more than others, they will progress more quickly and have more opportunity to decide how to spend that VC. Gaming 101. Everyone agrees, the default ball plays well, but isn't as good as some of the others. You make a choice as to whether you want to load that ball up or not. There are MANY other options, some more expensive than others. |
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Post by beef on Nov 10, 2022 5:08:47 GMT -5
I'd want the schedulers to set up the courses the way they always have. The balls need be treated the same as the fittings and archetypes in this regard. They're choices made by the player. You wouldn't not schedule a narrow driving course because someone chose the Powerhouse build and hasn't fitted improvements to their swing path. If someone chooses the Rhythm build and doesn't upgrade their power and are only hitting 260 from the tee, does that mean we have to take that into account and not schedule any courses over 6900 yards in the interest of fairness and balance ?
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Post by paddyjk19 on Nov 10, 2022 5:29:37 GMT -5
I'd want the schedulers to set up the courses the way they always have. The balls need be treated the same as the fittings and archetypes in this regard. They're choices made by the player. You wouldn't not schedule a narrow driving course because someone chose the Powerhouse build and hasn't fitted improvements to their swing path. If someone chooses the Rhythm build and doesn't upgrade their power and are only hitting 260 from the tee, does that mean we have to take that into account and not schedule any courses over 6900 yards in the interest of fairness and balance ? Very well put across |
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