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Post by theclv24 on Mar 16, 2021 20:16:23 GMT -5
I just experimented with moving the green farther back at 13...
Hard pass.
It might take 2 weeks of work just to get that right, plus re-situating the 14th tee to accommodate it, and then making sure changes at 15 don't encroach on the new tee. It's a big project. Consider that one Summer/Fall 2021.
I have some ideas for 14,15, 17, and probably 18 that I think the time between now and the end of the month can be spent on. For 13 I'll focus for now on updated planting and then move on.
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Post by mctrees02 on Mar 17, 2021 7:28:09 GMT -5
Any chance I can get on the beta distribution mailing list?
As for 10, I wouldn’t change a thing. Don’t tinker with a great golf hole just for the sake of tinkering.
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Post by mattf27 on Mar 17, 2021 8:50:53 GMT -5
Any chance I can get on the beta distribution mailing list? As for 10, I wouldn’t change a thing. Don’t tinker with a great golf hole just for the sake of tinkering. Thats the thing though, I fully believe that all of the holes should be changed, just to be safe, and to make the course our own. Take concepts that work and copy them, 100%, but I feel like the course should have its own voice as well.
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Post by mctrees02 on Mar 17, 2021 11:01:01 GMT -5
Any chance I can get on the beta distribution mailing list? As for 10, I wouldn’t change a thing. Don’t tinker with a great golf hole just for the sake of tinkering. Thats the thing though, I fully believe that all of the holes should be changed, just to be safe, and to make the course our own. Take concepts that work and copy them, 100%, but I feel like the course should have its own voice as well. Ok then let’s change out the Mackenzie bunker on 10 into a JS shrine and call it a day. We keep the structure of the hole while updating its long signature element to something more relevant for the modern game.
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tkr1983
Caddy
Posts: 60
TGCT Name: Phillip Tasker
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by tkr1983 on Mar 18, 2021 10:01:30 GMT -5
Can I just throw a wild suggestion in here and suggest that the course have a recreation of Mackenzie's famous lost hole at Sitwell Park in Yorkshire, England? Background to it here - www.egd.com/?p=1150The hole still exists, I played it last year, but the green has been simplified. It's a popular design with architects, I know there's talk of a recreation at Sweeten's Cove and Doak sort of recreated it on one of the Par 3s at Barnbougle Dunes.
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Post by mattf27 on Mar 18, 2021 21:28:13 GMT -5
I was looking at the beta, and was curious on thoughts about opening the tee shot on 13 up a little to the right. Yes, it makes the shot "easier" but it also visually makes the player want to start playing away from the creek, and leave themselves a longer approach shot.
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Post by theclv24 on Mar 19, 2021 8:03:47 GMT -5
I was looking at the beta, and was curious on thoughts about opening the tee shot on 13 up a little to the right. Yes, it makes the shot "easier" but it also visually makes the player want to start playing away from the creek, and leave themselves a longer approach shot.
Already on it! No pics ready yet, but you can see it in this video, maybe 10 minutes in:
Can see work on the 14th too.
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Post by theclv24 on Mar 22, 2021 9:53:16 GMT -5
Big photo dump here, I've made my first pass through all 18 holes.
First, I've changed the name to Fruitland Farms Golf Club. Wanted to get away from the ZB Tree Farm moniker. Thoughts?
Hole 13 I opened up more room on the room to entice a "safe" drive that leaves a much longer shot into the green at a worse angle. The play to cut the corner is still about exactly the same to thread it between the left trees and the small cluster. I eliminated the front left bunker at the green and reintroduced the original front portion of the green. This pin has a mount in front-left of it, a backstop behind it, and slopes heavily towards the creek. A play off of the backstop makes for a real eagle chance, but a miss long or left leaves a treacherous downhill slope towards the creek.
Hole 14 The tee is moved more to the left, and trees have been taken from the left side to add more fairway. A bunker has been introduced, reminiscent of the 1934 bunker, but it plays much differently. The best angle to the green, from the right, is had by skirting a ball along the left side of the bunker and letting the slope work it to the right. Drives directly over the bunker will be kicked into the rough. The "safe" drive, along the left, leaves the worse angle in, with the ground sloping away from where you want to hit it.
Hole 15 Much like the original hole, the left side is now opened up, with the trees being more of a center/center-left hazard. This opens the possibility of a play into the green from the left. That is certainly the better angle to come in from, although the ground still slopes right-to-left, so there is no easy shot in. The greenside bunker has been removed and replaced with a mound, which the original apparently had. There is also a front right tongue of green added back in. It's not pinnable, but it's a false front threat for anyone who tries to play the mound and gets it wrong.
Alas, I still do not know how to get balls to run all of the way down off of the false front and into the water. Likely this is due to the pond being at the water table, so I can't get fairway all of the way down. Perhaps someone with better tricks in the designer than I have will figure it out one day.
Hole 16 As you can see from the last picture and the next one, I extended the fairway from 15 and 17 into the 16th hole, and cut back some of the trees. I wanted a good view in from the 15th fairway. Overall there were just more trees here than necessary. Aside from rescultping the bunkers, I didn't make any other changes here. I don't see the original 1934 hole being better than this one, and rerouting would cause some logistical issues anyways, I think.
Hole 17 This was an overhaul. Both tees will be in play here, making it a borderline drivable hole (I'm thinking Friday and Sunday). The fairway was widened on both sides, resulting in significant tree removal, and allowing for a play at the best angle in to either corner of the green. The green was moved forward slightly, bunkers removed, and the mound on the left made much larger to bring back the original intent of this green being reminiscent of the 14th at St Andrews (mirrored). There is a front bowl and a back left portion that runs away, both affected by the mound. The right side is heavily back to front, making this very much a potato chip green, and playing much differently day to day.
Hole 18 The chute off of the tee is gone, as the left side has been opened up significantly. The original center bunker has been restored. Extra green surface has been added at the front, front left, back left, and back right, basically each corner. The greenside bunkers have also been redesigned slightly. A drive down the left is now possible, but leaving a longer shot in. The front left Sunday pin and the back left pin become extremely difficult from this angle. This is the best angle to the back right pin, though, albeit from a long ways away. The modern drive, a tight cut, is still required to go right of the bunker and have the best line to all pins except back right. Cutting the corner too much should still result in tree trouble.
Circling back to Hole 1 I moved the fairway bunker a few yards to the right and redesigned it, away from the modern shape. I also took out some trees down the right and added more fairway. The fairway has also been resplined along the left. Just slight changes overall.
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Post by spikel on Mar 22, 2021 12:59:44 GMT -5
I like the idea and all your progress looks great. I'd also be interested in testing the beta version.
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mayday_golf83
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,279
TGCT Name: Jeremy Mayo
Tour: Elite
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Post by mayday_golf83 on Mar 22, 2021 15:59:42 GMT -5
Replied via email, there may be a couple of tricks we could use to get things to work for the shaved banks on 15 & 16.
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Post by theduke21 on Mar 22, 2021 20:30:40 GMT -5
Would love to get the beta and offer some feedback here. I would imagine there may not be a person in the world who has played Augusta more than me dating back to 2015 lol.
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Post by theclv24 on Mar 22, 2021 20:43:46 GMT -5
spikel and theduke21 PM me your email addresses. Assuming you are on PC of course, but always have to make sure.
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Post by theclv24 on Mar 23, 2021 9:53:14 GMT -5
mayday_golf83 and rod81simo both pointed out my haste in declaring it impossible to get a fairway runoff directly into the pond in front of 15. Turns out it was actually quite easy... oops!
Edit: I also realized that having just two tees on every hole isn't going to work. I will probably have just two tee positions per hole, but 4 tees are needed in order to match each pin to an exact tee. I'll get those fixed on the first hole and added in for whenever the next update is.
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Post by jp44 on Mar 23, 2021 12:18:12 GMT -5
Just popping in to the kitchen to tell the chef and his cooks that it is smelling GOOD in here.
Really looking forward to this lads, loving the vision. The pictures look amazing so far.
Can't wait to get out there.
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Post by culallen on Mar 23, 2021 17:41:33 GMT -5
I have nothing to add except that this is a really cool project!
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