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Post by Brighttail on Jan 24, 2015 18:01:40 GMT -5
nonono, no need to change the rule here bright, as i said before, if we play like we would in real life, nobody would report our play, the rule is fine because it gets rid of any grey areas. please step aside and think of the pro's vs the cons here. I would be fine with the rule which allow players to help police themselves, except there are obviously some here that regardless of whatever situation arose, they would report it and under the current rule, if it is reported it is a DQ. So I don't trust the fact that people would fairly and objectively look at each and every situation. If the rule was changed that players can report it and the admin looked at the shot and sees it like I have expressed, 80 feet out, up hill 3 feet and determined no infraction was done, great. I'm okay with that, but we have no indication that this might or is the case. I would go a step further saying that if one person chips / flops the ball from 60 feet out and there is like 12 inches, fine, maybe one time that is acceptable, but if it happens again any time soon, DQ. I mean we should be talking about common sense and in a perfect world, there would be no trolls and we wouldn't have people who would absolutely feel it is illegal under any circumstances, thus reporting it. That is why i was looking for wiggle room or at least the opportunity that if someone makes the decision to do one of these shots and is called on it, that they have the ability to explain their reasoning instead of an auto DQ. Common sense. |
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Post by Mitchblue on Jan 24, 2015 18:04:18 GMT -5
nonono, no need to change the rule here bright, as i said before, if we play like we would in real life, nobody would report our play, the rule is fine because it gets rid of any grey areas. please step aside and think Of course, what'd you think was going to happen. |
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Painmantle
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 89 
TGCT Name: Rhett Parsons
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Post by Painmantle on Jan 24, 2015 18:05:32 GMT -5
This is basically what this thread has turned into
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Post by Mitchblue on Jan 24, 2015 18:08:53 GMT -5
Lol, Painmantle.
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Post by Brighttail on Jan 24, 2015 18:12:36 GMT -5
If the rule was changed that players can report it and the admin looked at the shot Of course, what'd you think was going to happen. The rule states it is policed by the players. The problem is some players are okay to accept instances of an 80 foot chip/flop whereas others are adamantly against it completely. The rules states that if it is reported and verified, the penalty is DQ. So since there will always be someone out there who will report it regardless of situation, the rule no longer becomes arbitrary, it becomes, if you do it and someone reports it, instant DQ. If the rule read, you may submit it for investigation and the admin will look at each case to determine if a penalty should be enforced, AND if there was a guideline saying that in instances where it is a long putt with a severe elevation change upwards, the rule would be fine.  |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 18:15:06 GMT -5
and thank you for illistrating a point i have made several times in this very thread,  leave the longer ones alone, we are the police here, we are the ones reporting it, if we leave the longer ones alone as long as they are not abused, where is the problem? not sure why we gotta keep going this full circle. The problem Taste is in those situations those who choose to chip/flop could be DQ'd if someone reported. So while you might be correct in theory, are you going to vouch for every member and guarantee that chipping/flopping longer shots wont be reported by fellow players?
I'd also like to reiterate what Brighttale said (and what I've said numerous times in this thread) about playing the game "properly". Great that some think Taste's way of playing is the "proper" and "correct" way of playing, but that is solely your opinion and to try and enforce it on others via lobbying for banning shot types is ridiculous. There is no correct or incorrect way of playing golf, its entirely subjective - that's the beauty of golf.
Taste, it is easier for some to chip it closer to the hole from 15-25 feet as its easier for some to putt it from that distance - its a matter of shot preference, skill, green speed, etc. While I don't think there should be a blanket ban on chipping on the greens, I would think a fair compromise would be what Brighttale has suggested. At the end of the day I think people should be free to play as they see fit; everyone has the freedom to chip or putt on the greens, it should come down to your skills and strategies as to what shot you choose. I don't think its fair to simply ban a shot type, thus benefitting those who are proficient putters to the detriment of those who are proficient chippers.
I will move on, play by the rules, and continue to try my best to make cuts every week. I do wish, however, that the powers at be would provide information to us about the problem, consult with the players and discuss things with the players before making decisions, rather than making decisions and then setting us loose to talk about it.
I really believe nobody would report you in extreme circumstances but it is not in in the spirit of this tour to put your putter in the bag from 60ft and take your lob wedge out |
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Post by Mitchblue on Jan 24, 2015 18:16:15 GMT -5
Of course, what'd you think was going to happen. The rule states it is policed by the players. The problem is some players are okay to accept instances of an 80 foot chip/flop whereas others are adamantly against it completely. The rules states that if it is reported and verified, the penalty is DQ. So since there will always be someone out there who will report it regardless of situation, the rule no longer becomes arbitrary, it becomes, if you do it and someone reports it, instant DQ. If the rule read, you may submit it for investigation and the admin will look at each case to determine if a penalty should be enforced, AND if there was a guideline saying that in instances where it is a long putt with a severe elevation change upwards, the rule would be fine. Policed doesn't mean conviction. Pretty obvious. |
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Post by Mitchblue on Jan 24, 2015 18:19:02 GMT -5
Bright, You the members will police it. If you see a ghost ball chipping on the green and it is obvious that there is no obstruction between them and the pin, record a video and submit it to us at commish@tgctours.com (not on the forums!).
The video must be from the perspective of the ghost ball - you can do this by selecting Watch Replay and pick the ghost ball that is chipping on the greens.
If you can't record a video, record the gamertag and the hole it happened on and submit to commish@tgctours.com
TGC Tours will have the final say on all cases.
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They will make final decision..
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Post by firstblitzer on Jan 24, 2015 18:20:58 GMT -5
I realize this is a video game and I will continue to shoot my 65 to 69 but I play in real life as most do. My question is this. If you WERE playing a real round of golf and a member of your group did this and was tearing up the greens, would you allow it? I play this video game for enjoyment and try to play as I would in real life. If he was in my group on my home course, i'd punch the prick in the head.
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Post by Brighttail on Jan 24, 2015 19:08:37 GMT -5
Bright, You the members will police it. If you see a ghost ball chipping on the green and it is obvious that there is no obstruction between them and the pin, record a video and submit it to us at commish@tgctours.com (not on the forums!). The video must be from the perspective of the ghost ball - you can do this by selecting Watch Replay and pick the ghost ball that is chipping on the greens. If you can't record a video, record the gamertag and the hole it happened on and submit to commish@tgctours.com TGC Tours will have the final say on all cases. ---------------------- They will make final decision.. I invite them to weigh in on times then when it might be allowable in their mind, that way we have some guidelines to deal with. |
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Post by firstblitzer on Jan 24, 2015 19:19:11 GMT -5
Bright, You the members will police it. If you see a ghost ball chipping on the green and it is obvious that there is no obstruction between them and the pin, record a video and submit it to us at commish@tgctours.com (not on the forums!). The video must be from the perspective of the ghost ball - you can do this by selecting Watch Replay and pick the ghost ball that is chipping on the greens. If you can't record a video, record the gamertag and the hole it happened on and submit to commish@tgctours.com TGC Tours will have the final say on all cases. ---------------------- They will make final decision.. I invite them to weigh in on times then when it might be allowable in their mind, that way we have some guidelines to deal with. The rule is pretty clear, use your putter or take your chances with being reported and dq'ed, I will be keeping an eye on you. |
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Post by Mitchblue on Jan 24, 2015 19:33:09 GMT -5
Bright, You the members will police it. If you see a ghost ball chipping on the green and it is obvious that there is no obstruction between them and the pin, record a video and submit it to us at commish@tgctours.com (not on the forums!). The video must be from the perspective of the ghost ball - you can do this by selecting Watch Replay and pick the ghost ball that is chipping on the greens. If you can't record a video, record the gamertag and the hole it happened on and submit to commish@tgctours.com TGC Tours will have the final say on all cases. ---------------------- They will make final decision.. I invite them to weigh in on times then when it might be allowable in their mind, that way we have some guidelines to deal with. You invite them? it's pretty straight forward. |
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Post by Brighttail on Jan 24, 2015 20:18:59 GMT -5
I invite them to weigh in on times then when it might be allowable in their mind, that way we have some guidelines to deal with. The rule is pretty clear, use your putter or take your chances with being reported and dq'ed, I will be keeping an eye on you. Watch away! I expect you will be bored, but thank you for illustrating my point on trolls. As I stated much earlier in the thread, this is something I have done 3 times in over 400 rounds when playing competitively and even then it was when I was simply too far away with too much elevation to get the ball to the hole. I'm not arguing the point for myself, I'm arguing the point for the other people we are trying to keep in the tour who aren't as good as the rest of us. For them it is a legitimate shot that is legal under the rules of golf. It absolutely amazing me the mindset of people who can only see black or white and refuse to even entertain compromise. As we all know the flop shot is ridiculously easy in this game and everyone can execute it like Phil or Tiger, which isn't at all realistic. What would you say if tomorrow the admin banned the use of it for the same reasons many are giving here, it is too easy a shot and it unrealistic? It is pretty much the same thing. So that leaves the argument that it gives an unfair advantage over putting as a person can execute a shot of 60 feet out with pin point accuracy using the flop shot much better than putting. That the shot isn't designed to be as accurate as it is in the game and is much harder to execute than the game shows. They ignore the fact that they are perfectly capable and allowed to make the same shot. The only semi-legitimate argument for such a ban is it offers an unfair advantage of avoiding breaks, but this is not necessarily the case from long distance. I want to take a moment and list the arguments I have seen: 1. It is a breach of etiquette. A: While some local clubs have this as a rule, during tournament play especially PGA/EURO tour caliber, this rule is obviously suspended. 2. No club but the putter should be allowed on the green. A: Rules of golf says any club may be used for any shot at any time. 3. It gives an unfair advantage that the creators of the game did not anticipate (or maybe they did and didn't care) when using chips for short shots are execute to avoid the natural slope of the green. A: This point is conceded. And a rule designed to prevent THIS aspect is perfectly legitimate. 4. If you were X feet away on a real golf course you would never pull out X club other than the putter to make the shot. Get real! A: You don't know how I play and you don't know how others play. What you are really saying is YOU wouldn't do it. It is a shame you are limiting yourself only to a putter and making the shot more difficult. 5. A flop shot from 60 feet out on a green is too unrealistic. The shot is way too hard to execute and the game makes it too easy. Besides you would never do this in real life. A: For that last part I refer you to the answer in #4. For the first part, yes it is unrealistic, but so is the flop shot from the fairway, rough and bunker. It is one of the hardest shots in golf and we can execute it in the game flawlessly. It is an unrealistic shot that has been included in the game overall. So if it is so unrealistic regardless where it is being played, (I mean really getting 5 feet of backspin from a bunker?) then why do we allow it in one situation but not in another. 6. Chipping from 80 feet gives you an unfair advantage over a person who decides to putt. 3 Putts are part of the game too! A: For a person who can chip effectively, you may be right, but what makes your higher level of skill as a putter more important than someone's higher level skill as a chipper? All things being equal no one way of playing the game should favoured in the rules over another so long as the shots are legal. Each person is better/worse at different aspects of the game. One should not be penalized for focusing on chipping over putting. 7. You should just practice your putting more. A: Maybe you should practice your chipping more. 8. It ruins the spirit of the game. A: Why? Just cause you choose not to execute it due to whatever personal reasons, doesn't mean someone else can't. There is no one way to play golf. 9. I would NEVER chip/pitch/flop from the green. A: Great for you! There is more than one way to play the game. 10. We are supposed to be pros. Pros in RL would never (or rarely) do this and I see people doing it like every shot. A: It is a video game and we are all made pros by the simple fact that everyone has the same exact abilities as everyone else to start. There are no skill points to invest in lengthening your drive or putting spin on the ball (like Tiger Wood's Golf). Putting is statistically more dependable than chipping on a surface like a green, this is why the pros prefer it. As pointed out if someone found that using a 3 wood as a putter improved their putting so they could win the Masters, you better believe many would do it...imagine the press, not to mention the money they would gain. To the people who do it every shot... excluding those who do it within the 12-25 foot range to avoid break, do you really think the people that do it consistently out side that range are great golfers? The simple fact they don't understand putting is statistically the better way, shows that their limited understanding of the fundamentals of golf will preclude them from ever excelling at it. Does this mean I want to make a rule to stop them? Hell no, that is just another person who paid their entry fee that I'll get a cut of at the end of the day. Bottom line. The argument of using it to avoid a break within the 12-25 foot range is valid and there should be a rule to discourage that. Beyond that, the only real problem is people are not used to the fact that chipping/flopping/pitching on the green has been allowed and has been done by people legally for over a century. To say it is unfair would only hold true if the person complaining wasn't allowed to take the same shot. All other arguments simply doesn't hold any legitimacy as they are based on beliefs rather than fact. And finally if your argument is about the flop shot not being allowed cause it is too unrealistic, I agree, it is, but if we ban if from the putting surface due to it being so unrealistic, we should ban it from all surfaces except the fairway, because hitting it out of the rough or the sand and getting the results and spin that we do is equally unrealistic. The rules of golf should not be determined on fads, local club etiquette, personal beliefs and such. They should be based on fairness and equality to all and right now, chipping/pitching/flopping on the green is something EVERYONE is allowed to do, just because you don't want to, shouldn't mean others should be banned from doing so. The original intent was to make a rule to stop an exploit. Great. But chipping a ball on the green to avoid a two, three or four putt isn't an exploit. It may not be what you would do but it is not an exploit, it is just another way of the infinite number of ways to play the greatest game on Earth. Peace and no hard feelings to anyone. |
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Post by Mitchblue on Jan 24, 2015 20:41:49 GMT -5
The rule is pretty clear, use your putter or take your chances with being reported and dq'ed, I will be keeping an eye on you. I'm not arguing the point for myself, I'm arguing the point for the other people we are trying to keep in the tour who aren't as good as the rest of us. For someone who isn't as good as yourself, don't worry so much for us. We'll manage. |
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Post by Brighttail on Jan 24, 2015 20:46:40 GMT -5
I'm not arguing the point for myself, I'm arguing the point for the other people we are trying to keep in the tour who aren't as good as the rest of us. For someone who isn't as good as yourself, don't worry so much for us. We'll manage. I'm not in the elite golfers here but i'm working on it. As for you, play as you like, no one should force you to play in any particular way. Thus that is the point you have just helped illustrate. Thanks! |
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