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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 8:18:48 GMT -5
Going by some of the arguments there is a case being made to outlaw flopping from 20-40 yards next. Nobody would regularly play that shot in real life, certainly not from a bunker. It's also easier to fade/draw to normalize heavy winds but a regular Joe would never attempt that risky shot than just play the wind so maybe that is up for banning next too. We must ensure all golfers in the game are doing EXACTLY the shot they would choose in real life because this game MUST be an exact reproduction of real golf...(unless it pertains to the actual real rules of golf). let the dissecting begin! actually oblong, you hit the nail on the head through your sarcasm: of course, this only pertains to the greens for this discussion, everything else you said is pretty much off base. glad you understand. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 8:19:46 GMT -5
TBH I don't care what the rule is, I would like it clear in the wording, not open to interpretation or definition 4 pages into the thread.
I support the concept as everyone is playing by the same rules, and knows what it is, however if putter is the only club allowed on the green, except in specific circumstances, then all I ask is say that specifically in the wording of the policy, not say something else then give us an interpretation 4 pages later.
Chipping, pitching, flopping and punching is clearly defined by the game, however so is full shot.
I'm fairly certain the above could be dialed in, but it's just show you the example of a full shot.
I know the admin here hate me, and wish I would die and fall off the face of the earth, however my intentions, whether you agree or not, are not meant to harm, criticize the great work they have done, any suggestion or question I may have is strictly done in the spirit of trying to better the experience. Anything I say or suggest should not be taken as a personal attack, as it has not now, nor never has been intended in any shape or form as a personal attack.
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Post by jwfickett on Jan 24, 2015 9:09:31 GMT -5
TBH I don't care what the rule is, I would like it clear in the wording, not open to interpretation or definition 4 pages into the thread. I support the concept as everyone is playing by the same rules, and knows what it is, however if putter is the only club allowed on the green, except in specific circumstances, then all I ask is say that specifically in the wording of the policy, not say something else then give us an interpretation 4 pages later. Chipping, pitching, flopping and punching is clearly defined by the game, however so is full shot. I'm fairly certain the above could be dialed in, but it's just show you the example of a full shot. I know the admin here hate me, and wish I would die and fall off the face of the earth, however my intentions, whether you agree or not, are not meant to harm, criticize the great work they have done, any suggestion or question I may have is strictly done in the spirit of trying to better the experience. Anything I say or suggest should not be taken as a personal attack, as it has not now, nor never has been intended in any shape or form as a personal attack. It would be a lot easier to take your posts seriously if they weren't always so drenched in melodrama. No one hates you or doesn't want you here. You would have banned by now if that was the case. |
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Post by jwfickett on Jan 24, 2015 9:13:45 GMT -5
Taste made a good point, straight out of the rule: you guys are the ones policing this. So if you see someone use a club from the green at a distance you feel is appropriate under the circumstances, simply don't report it and we'll never by any the wiser. We are not hunting these players down, it is up to you to make judgment calls on what you think is fair vs violation of the rules/spirit of the rules.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 9:16:21 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure this is what happens if you get caught chipping on the greens under the new rules...  So please people JUST PUTT....... |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 9:33:32 GMT -5
TBH I don't care what the rule is, I would like it clear in the wording, not open to interpretation or definition 4 pages into the thread. I support the concept as everyone is playing by the same rules, and knows what it is, however if putter is the only club allowed on the green, except in specific circumstances, then all I ask is say that specifically in the wording of the policy, not say something else then give us an interpretation 4 pages later. Chipping, pitching, flopping and punching is clearly defined by the game, however so is full shot. I'm fairly certain the above could be dialed in, but it's just show you the example of a full shot. I know the admin here hate me, and wish I would die and fall off the face of the earth, however my intentions, whether you agree or not, are not meant to harm, criticize the great work they have done, any suggestion or question I may have is strictly done in the spirit of trying to better the experience. Anything I say or suggest should not be taken as a personal attack, as it has not now, nor never has been intended in any shape or form as a personal attack. It would be a lot easier to take your posts seriously if they weren't always so drenched in melodrama. No one hates you or doesn't want you here. You would have banned by now if that was the case. See I won't take that personally :-) I mean how could I possibly do such. Please accept my apology for making such a sensational dramatic piece with exaggerated characters and exciting events intended to appeal to the emotions of the participants of this forum. I assure you English is my second language, profanity being my first. However I guess I'm doing it again, dam.
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Post by Brighttail on Jan 24, 2015 11:50:42 GMT -5
Taste made a good point, straight out of the rule: you guys are the ones policing this. So if you see someone use a club from the green at a distance you feel is appropriate under the circumstances, simply don't report it and we'll never by any the wiser. We are not hunting these players down, it is up to you to make judgment calls on what you think is fair vs violation of the rules/spirit of the rules. Sadly this won't work. While most people might take into consideration the length of the putt, the lack of grid, elevation and such, there are people like Taste who would report anyone they saw, every time...and since all it takes is one passionate person who believes in absolutes to report it, it then becomes a crap shoot. Concerning Taste and your views, I don't think anyone here is really advocating chipping from short distances. We all agree that it has been used as an exploit to avoid break, but isn't there a middle ground we can agree upon? What most of us who are in favour of chipping on the greens in certain extreme cases, IE over 60 feet when we don't have a grid, is the simple standard that I put up, but it easily could be 70, 80 feet too. That is what we call a compromise and compromise is how civil society comes to decisions when not everyone agrees with said decision. There is so much that we do in this game that is outside the rules of golf. How many of you play with ghost balls? How many of you will wait for the ghost balls to shoot first on a course you are unfamiliar with, to see where they drive, how they approach the green, where they land on the green to look for any prime landing areas? This is cheating and yet somehow we are all okay with it. In real golf we wouldn't be able to zoom in, have a grid on the green, know how fast the wind is going, know the exact distance down to the yard(yes there are yardage books but it is still a visual estimation)...all this is cheating. We have the options to turn it off but lets face it, how many would play in these tournaments if all these options were turned off? They have a True Slims tour that gets a handful of folks every week that plays like this, a challenge indeed but they don't get 400+ people, but it is still cheating. This game is based like so many on a formula. Some people get up an hit the closest club to the yardage remaining. They hit driver on every hole. Others understand the use of loft and incorporate it into their game, adding and subtracting in our heads the yardage we want to attempt. There are others still who will look at a putt and for every grid (3 feet) are able to look at how fast that marker is moving indicating slope and know the price number of clicks, right/left they need to adjust based on how fast that line is moving every three feet. If they are 12 feet out, they just continue to add clicks. If the putt breaks two ways, they may have to subtract now. If the putt is elevated or downhill, just more numbers in the overall formula of the game. I guarantee you 100% that there are people out there who have this game down to where they can plug in numbers on a spreadsheet or in the head come to the number "42" and click that number of times right or left and so long as they hit a straight shot, they make the putt. Is this cheating? Some may say yes. Some may say no because they practiced and learned this on their own. They took the time to make their yardage charts and excel spread sheet, so no, they are pros not cheaters. Now what about the friend they gave this chart/formula to that didn't have to do any of this, isn't he a cheater? Doesn't he now have a huge unfair advantage for being friends with this guy? Does playing with a formula, using a chart or any aid give you an unfair advantage to those who firmly believe this shouldn't be allowed and that we should rely more on our natural feel for the game? If there was a way to take all this away, you would not be seeing -18 rounds as frequently as you do now. Doyley was very nice in giving EVERYONE a loft chart with some hints/tips/tricks that was meant to improve our game, yet this makes us ALL cheaters, regardless whether we all agree to it or not? Not everyone uses that chart, not everyone knows about it. The chart is far from complete and doesn't included everything he knows either, and yet everyone of us (myself included) a cheater? I guess what I'm saying is that we should now have rules with no grids, no wind direction, no scout came and if you play with a ghost ball, you must do so where it is turn based so you don't gain any unfair advantage by ghost players hitting out of turn. While we are at it we should ban the use of calculators, spreadsheets and any printed material that may aid our game. We should ban flop shots until HB makes them more realistic and only work 20 % of the time, unless we spend skill points to raise that percentage. Am I sounding ridiculous yet? Good, because that is how making a rule that outright bans a legal shot, both in golf and in the TGC game is to me. Rather than deal with the few people who are exploiting the situation, the rule punishes everyone who may occasionally opt to use the shot. I guarantee everyone if the admins reversed the rule today, there wouldn't be that many more people who suddenly use this shot more often, why? Because we don't practice it, it isn't part of our normal game now, why would we try to incorporate something that is already foreign to us? Simply put the administrators should reverse this rule and invite concerned players to report a player they feel is abusing the SPIRIT of the game. Much like people report players who hit the ball too straight or for a number of other offenses. The admin will then look at those players objectively and take the appropriate action, issue warning, issue second warning with DQ from that tourney, Suspend them or terminate their card. This is how you deal with this issue of chipping to avoid a break, not by banning all chipping from the green. The only down side is the tournament marshals will have to deal with the influx of complaints. Fair point but after the initial phase of weeding out those who truly are exploiting, I can't imagine it will continue much after that. Why? Once again, it isn't something that is part of most of our normal game. Lets use a little common sense here folks..please. Back to your regular scheduled programing. |
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Post by billybudd0623 on Jan 24, 2015 11:53:16 GMT -5
I realize this is a video game and I will continue to shoot my 65 to 69 but I play in real life as most do. My question is this. If you WERE playing a real round of golf and a member of your group did this and was tearing up the greens, would you allow it? I play this video game for enjoyment and try to play as I would in real life. I understand the reasoning about the 100 foot putts. I have had several 3 and 4 putts because of this. That said, I like the rule because I would not enjoy seeing someone chip or flop from 20 feet (although I have not seen this). Kudos to Tim and the gang for trying to keep the game fair and as realistic as you can make a video game. Good luck to all!
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Post by thrangar on Jan 24, 2015 12:09:48 GMT -5
Unless I am misunderstanding the flow of this thread, If we put restrictions on chipping based on green design, shouldn't we put restrictions on green designs?
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Post by Mitchblue on Jan 24, 2015 12:12:18 GMT -5
I've been hearing about "the lack of a grid." I'm certainly not one of the best putters but I don't seem to have much difficulty getting it close to the pin because of "no grid." At least now any worst than when I do have a grid.
And what happens if you're just barely outside the grid, would the chipper be pulled out then?
And I said it once before as others have, if they chipped on a green IRL like people do here they'd have a rule forbidding it.
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Post by Brighttail on Jan 24, 2015 12:27:31 GMT -5
I realize this is a video game and I will continue to shoot my 65 to 69 but I play in real life as most do. My question is this. If you WERE playing a real round of golf and a member of your group did this and was tearing up the greens, would you allow it? I play this video game for enjoyment and try to play as I would in real life. I understand the reasoning about the 100 foot putts. I have had several 3 and 4 putts because of this. That said, I like the rule because I would not enjoy seeing someone chip or flop from 20 feet (although I have not seen this). Kudos to Tim and the gang for trying to keep the game fair and as realistic as you can make a video game. Good luck to all! Many local clubs have rules about chipping on the green to prevent this from happening. So in answer to your question no I would not like it, especially if they are taking a divot out. If they are taking a 7 iron and bump, running the ball I have no issue. But that isn't the point. We aren't playing a friendly game of golf with a few friends. This is a competition and the places that have this rule locally, do not enforce it when the PGA comes visiting. Once again, I'm trying to say I will agree with the rule for short distance putting, especially. What I'm concerned about is when there is no grid or a lengthy putt with large elevation in which the game mechanics and limitations of one's hardware prevent you from even getting the ball close to the hole. |
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Post by billybudd0623 on Jan 24, 2015 12:41:34 GMT -5
As I have said before. I have the same problems other do with the long, long putts. It is a crap shoot for me to get the ball close for a two putt especially since the putting update. In practice rounds, I have chipped some of these 100 foot putts and even though I am sucessful most of the time, I do not feel right about it. For those that chip from 20 feet, shame on you. I hope that extra stoke saved is worth it. We will never come to agreement on this. There are some of us that just enjoy the competition and some that must "win" at all costs regardless. Maybe HB will give us an update to solve the problem. This is JUST a video game and lets enjoy the tour and fellowship.
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Post by dlw1964 on Jan 24, 2015 12:57:04 GMT -5
I've never pitch or chip on a green but I do flop occasionally. Where do I flop from?
Easy guess from 60 ft and out.
Why?
Another easy answer, the flop shot is an easy shot from 20-40 yards (60ft-120ft).
Now I'm rarely this far away but when I am I flop.
Would I do this in real golf?
I think you know the answer.
No.
I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE NEW RULE.
I Won't be flopping on the greens anymore unless the very rare occasion that fringe or a bunker is in the line of my putt.
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Post by Wildrover on Jan 24, 2015 14:39:12 GMT -5
I've never pitch or chip on a green but I do flop occasionally. Where do I flop from? Easy guess from 60 ft and out. Why? Another easy answer, the flop shot is an easy shot from 20-40 yards (60ft-120ft). Now I'm rarely this far away but when I am I flop. Would I do this in real golf? I think you know the answer. No. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE NEW RULE. I Won't be flopping on the greens anymore unless the very rare occasion that fringe or a bunker is in the line of my putt. a few weeks back u were saying u don't putt anything from 50ft out on a green.. now u saying its 60 ft or more out you flop it, quite the contradiction. I don't consider myself in the elite category of players on tgc but I'm assuming goin by your posts on tgc forums at times that u do consider yourself in that elite bracket..I would question that though,because up until a few days ago before tgctours announced this new ruling, you've openly admitted to flopping on a green from 50 to all of a sudden 60 feet out...I don't consider anyone flopping on a green from 50ft out to be a top player,otherwise they wouldn't need to resort to such measures in the first place..myself and a lot of others on tgc only putt PERIOD if we are on the green.shame others can't abide by that...regardless if its real life or a computer came, tgc is a good golfing sim and surely the spirit n gentlemanly nature of golf should be adhered to on all fronts.. I've now said all I want to say on this matter..  ...remember...... It's just a game...but let's play the beautiful sport that is golf fairly just like it is played in in real life.. Good day to u sir... |
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Post by dlw1964 on Jan 24, 2015 14:52:49 GMT -5
I'm sorry I type 50 instead of 60. Lol
A fully lofted flop shot is 20 yards or 60 feet.
If I was 60 feet or more out.
The flop shot is easier to get closer than a putt.
Yes I admitted to taking an advantage over the game.
Hence my posts that I don't have a problem with the new rule.
Plus I was trying to make a point, anybody that chips, pitches or flops on a green is taking advantage of the game mechanics.
This is a good rule even though it goes against real golf rules.
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...remember...... It's just a game...but let's play the beautiful sport that is golf fairly just like it is played in in real life.. Good day to u sir...