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Post by GW_Hope on Jan 30, 2019 13:31:07 GMT -5
My only gripe about the swing is I spent about 2- 3 months figuring it out and finally got consistency with only to be dq'd. I was just doing what others have done their whole career. Bingo!
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Post by t2theb2 on Jan 30, 2019 13:35:19 GMT -5
That's for another argument, one I have only just learnt of. One that sound like we have nothing we can do about but we can do something about the ps4 problem. I will go and buy the game on pc and play at a disadvantage that cant be helped if you do a full swing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 13:35:32 GMT -5
My only gripe about the swing is I spent about 2- 3 months figuring it out and finally got consistency with only to be dq'd. I was just doing what others have done their whole career. This is the problem with it. You know you are flirting with a line. I do too along with the others. I don't have a clue how close I am to failing, but given 10 weeks or so I am either amazingly good at being near the line but not crossing it or else I just suck at swinging and am helped by the new way HB interprets my data now. I am 95% sure it is the latter, by the way.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 13:36:26 GMT -5
That's for another argument, one I have only just learnt of. One that sound like we have nothing we can do about but we can do something about the ps4 problem. I will go and buy the game on pc and play at a disadvantage that cant be helped if you do a full swing. And all the others using it? How do you get a "gentlemens agreement" among all of those that use it?
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Post by GW_Hope on Jan 30, 2019 13:40:27 GMT -5
To be fair hb can't change the ruling on the tgc tours comps. I'm not going on hb's website when it sounds quite obvious that they won't be doing anything. So for me the only thing that can be done is the tours to say unfortunately you can't play unless you get a controller that works how it should. It's only the same as the last game where people who controller had a deadspot were made to change Problem is if they don’t see complaint what is the incentive to change? Maybe not this game but hopefully the next. No complaint then no chance it changes.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 13:40:41 GMT -5
But from the sounds of things we cannot level anything out across the platforms without hb doing something. But we can either get people to learn to swing full or get a new controller. Not everybody will agree but that is my honest view and won't be playing unless it was ever to happen as I'd rather not waste my time How do you get dozens of people who swing like this to agree to change their swing. It sounds nice, but that is very unrealistic. TGCT tightening up their API to not accept a somewhat wider range of dispertion? Jeff has already stated that the line between those using legit methods and known script users are blurred as it is, so you take that even further and you would have to accept that false positive API fails are okay. Remember in the past how poor it went over when known straight up players were failing API tests? You have to be okay with that being a norm to ask them to make API more stringent.
I am honestly considering just stopping my play here (I already have on TST a few weeks back) due to having to go over this over and over again because it's the same arguments just new faces rotate in. I could at least try and work with staff here (if they want to even do anything) to see what can be worked on by giving them data. I don't know.
All I do know is that I am very tired of playing the same way for years and now made to feel like I am doing something wrong. Even worse, the snide comments like "Its amazing that someone who has never won suddenly wins" implies something shady. Despite Ian meaning the swing type being the reason, the implication is too close to inferring I am not on the up and up for me to let it pass.
In less than a year I get my name dragged around very wrongly for sandbagging and ALSO for improving too much in a short time. People can't have variances here I suppose or the tin-foil hats come out. I guess I need to stay within 20th to 50th place on PGA and do not deviate or else something is not right and I get called out.
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Post by t2theb2 on Jan 30, 2019 13:43:00 GMT -5
There's no chance everybody else would but would be interesting just to get one player to change for even a week just to see if there game changes at all.
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Post by mrohde4 on Jan 30, 2019 13:46:28 GMT -5
I wasn't going after anybody just merely pointing out it should not be allowed no matter who's fault it is. But now you have given me your view I am a little shocked. I have all ways got on with you Bob so this is no witch hunt. I am however a little surprised your happy playing with an advantage. As for the advantage over pc and Xbox I have no idea. As I only play against players on ps4 and having even played on the tours since the new game. But if you told me there was something I could do to level it out with them I would. Never failed an API check, not once. Two per week here on regular tours since TGC2 came out and same this year with one/two on TST as well.
You expect me to alter my swing because the peanut gallery here are unhappy? Really? I have not altered anything in my physical swing from TGC2 to TGC2019. To be honest it is easier now since I don't have to look down much (only when I am off) now vs. I always had to in TGC2.
XB1 has a massive tempo disadvantage with Master clubs and TGCTours has shown statistical data to this end. We aren't playing the same game as them either. So to that end if you want it not allowed, you should also be for platform specific leaderboards here as well.
Comparing the short swing phenomenon to cross-platform differences is not analogous. In fact, it fails miserably. The flicky-flicky is a technique (for some) therefore it's correctable by the individual player. Using this technique is a choice. If there was a magic button that corrected the perceived cross platform differences, we all would've pushed it a long time ago. Celebrating and defending this design flaw (while doing nothing) is dangerous because it only serves to motivate the average player to make undetectable controller modifications. At least the disproportionate advantage is being acknowledged. Step one.
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Post by mrohde4 on Jan 30, 2019 13:51:54 GMT -5
But from the sounds of things we cannot level anything out across the platforms without hb doing something. But we can either get people to learn to swing full or get a new controller. Not everybody will agree but that is my honest view and won't be playing unless it was ever to happen as I'd rather not waste my time How do you get dozens of people who swing like this to agree to change their swing. It sounds nice, but that is very unrealistic. TGCT tightening up their API to not accept a somewhat wider range of dispertion? Jeff has already stated that the line between those using legit methods and known script users are blurred as it is, so you take that even further and you would have to accept that false positive API fails are okay. Remember in the past how poor it went over when known straight up players were failing API tests? You have to be okay with that being a norm to ask them to make API more stringent.
I am honestly considering just stopping my play here (I already have on TST a few weeks back) due to having to go over this over and over again because it's the same arguments just new faces rotate in. I could at least try and work with staff here (if they want to even do anything) to see what can be worked on by giving them data. I don't know.
All I do know is that I am very tired of playing the same way for years and now made to feel like I am doing something wrong. Even worse, the snide comments like "Its amazing that someone who has never won suddenly wins" implies something shady. Despite Ian meaning the swing type being the reason, the implication is too close to inferring I am not on the up and up for me to let it pass.
In less than a year I get my name dragged around very wrongly for sandbagging and ALSO for improving too much in a short time. People can't have variances here I suppose or the tin-foil hats come out. I guess I need to stay within 20th to 50th place on PGA and do not deviate or else something is not right and I get called out.
The level of narcissism is amazing. In TGC1, players were banned based on nothing more than visual evidence. Don't see why that can't be implemented now. Can't speak for the rest of the peanut gallery, but I'd be happy to fulfill any upload requirements imposed here. Edit: Nobody is required to play, and nobody is required to post/argue on the forums.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 13:55:52 GMT -5
There's no chance everybody else would but would be interesting just to get one player to change for even a week just to see if there game changes at all. It is an advantage. It would change scoring, and anyone saying it wouldn't is being ignorant or disingenuous to you.
I really am coming out in front of this to help a dialogue here, but also remember that I am playing within TGCT guidelines for straightness with a DS4 controller. I am being asked to play at a higher standard than that by SOME members and that is where I am starting to find an issue. Everyone's opinion of what should and shouldn't be allowed will be different, so even if I satisfy your view of what is allowed, it doesn't mean others won't still have a problem with it.
I am trying to convey that there is a very grey area here among many people. Do we ask for TGCT to change something? Will HB ever acknowledge or change anything? Remember swing-gate in TGC1? That is the right path, IMO. Some ps4 users couldn't hit the ball (club reset multiple times) or it went way short. HB came out and made a mocking video showing them hit the ball with a DS4. I am quite confident that the same people who now short swing were the ones who had the issue during swinggate back then. I had such a problem with it that I switched to PC for several months until ps4 was changed back. The thing was, at the time no one really understood WHY players couldn't execute a simple swing and once it was taken back people simply forgot about it. HB was onto something that could fix the short swing there I think. I am guessing that their data during "swinggate" needed to have the follow through go up more than past the starting point or else it would not register.
But to get them to acknowledge it and do something is the issue. Unlike TGCT, they don't care how scores compare one platform to the other, and there isn't a DIRECT monetary reason to do so in this version of the game, so it is frustrating. I get that many here on ps4 are frustrated. But attacking others is misplacing the blame and not helping to resolve the problem.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 13:59:07 GMT -5
Never failed an API check, not once. Two per week here on regular tours since TGC2 came out and same this year with one/two on TST as well.
You expect me to alter my swing because the peanut gallery here are unhappy? Really? I have not altered anything in my physical swing from TGC2 to TGC2019. To be honest it is easier now since I don't have to look down much (only when I am off) now vs. I always had to in TGC2.
XB1 has a massive tempo disadvantage with Master clubs and TGCTours has shown statistical data to this end. We aren't playing the same game as them either. So to that end if you want it not allowed, you should also be for platform specific leaderboards here as well.
Comparing the short swing phenomenon to cross-platform differences is not analogous. In fact, it fails miserably. The flicky-flicky is a technique (for some) therefore it's correctable by the individual player. Using this technique is a choice. If there was a magic button that corrected the perceived cross platform differences, we all would've pushed it a long time ago. Celebrating and defending this design flaw (while doing nothing) is dangerous because it only serves to motivate the average player to make undetectable controller modifications. At least the disproportionate advantage is being acknowledged. Step one. Correctable is on HB's end. I always got full swing lines until this version. Always.
The reason I never really acknowledged until now that it is an advantage is that people are viewing this as a contest of being right and "beating" the other guy. I admit it and some think "Ha! See. Told you so. I win." The point is that it shouldn't be there at all and without HB's help or TGCT altering their API metrics, you aren't just going to put the genie back in the bottle now.
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Post by GW_Hope on Jan 30, 2019 14:02:43 GMT -5
That is my problem with HB. They are treating the issue as though it’s a single player game when the fact they added multiplayer they should make all swing equal. I even suggested giving everybody short swing results. Just stop collecting data at the same point. Then adjust difficulty from there.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 14:05:20 GMT -5
How do you get dozens of people who swing like this to agree to change their swing. It sounds nice, but that is very unrealistic. TGCT tightening up their API to not accept a somewhat wider range of dispertion? Jeff has already stated that the line between those using legit methods and known script users are blurred as it is, so you take that even further and you would have to accept that false positive API fails are okay. Remember in the past how poor it went over when known straight up players were failing API tests? You have to be okay with that being a norm to ask them to make API more stringent.
I am honestly considering just stopping my play here (I already have on TST a few weeks back) due to having to go over this over and over again because it's the same arguments just new faces rotate in. I could at least try and work with staff here (if they want to even do anything) to see what can be worked on by giving them data. I don't know.
All I do know is that I am very tired of playing the same way for years and now made to feel like I am doing something wrong. Even worse, the snide comments like "Its amazing that someone who has never won suddenly wins" implies something shady. Despite Ian meaning the swing type being the reason, the implication is too close to inferring I am not on the up and up for me to let it pass.
In less than a year I get my name dragged around very wrongly for sandbagging and ALSO for improving too much in a short time. People can't have variances here I suppose or the tin-foil hats come out. I guess I need to stay within 20th to 50th place on PGA and do not deviate or else something is not right and I get called out.
The level of narcissism is amazing. In TGC1, players were banned based on nothing more than visual evidence. Don't see why that can't be implemented now. Can't speak for the rest of the peanut gallery, but I'd be happy to fulfill any upload requirements imposed here. Edit: Nobody is required to play, and nobody is required to post/argue on the forums. All of my inference of using API and bans means TGC2 going forward to this version.
Visual evidence is such a subjective, partial, and poor way to judge things. It is a very poor model for a proper way to compare hundreds of players. TGCT has realized that using swing data and judging it based on the data is more precise and has changed to that once TGC2 came along (staff may correct me if I am wrong, obviously).
I am being open about this and trying to figure out a way forward instead of the week after week bickering over the same thing ad nauseum. I can see how one could think narcissism by some of my tone, but I am a numbers person and am not good at verbal nuance. It is not my intention to come across that way, even if I do.
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Post by mrohde4 on Jan 30, 2019 14:09:12 GMT -5
Comparing the short swing phenomenon to cross-platform differences is not analogous. In fact, it fails miserably. The flicky-flicky is a technique (for some) therefore it's correctable by the individual player. Using this technique is a choice. If there was a magic button that corrected the perceived cross platform differences, we all would've pushed it a long time ago. Celebrating and defending this design flaw (while doing nothing) is dangerous because it only serves to motivate the average player to make undetectable controller modifications. At least the disproportionate advantage is being acknowledged. Step one. Correctable is on HB's end. I always got full swing lines until this version. Always.
The reason I never really acknowledged until now that it is an advantage is that people are viewing this as a contest of being right and "beating" the other guy. I admit it and some think "Ha! See. Told you so. I win." The point is that it shouldn't be there at all and without HB's help or TGCT altering their API metrics, you aren't just going to put the genie back in the bottle now.
It's commendable that you're being so honest. You've unfortunately become the sacrificial lamb because you speak up. I appreciate that. I don't think it's become an "I win!" pissing match, but nothing gets changed until the issue is first recognized. Many, including myself, don't think you're doing anything shady. It's a software problem, but that doesn't mean a remedy in this community is impossible. In 1 and 2, all swings showed full lines so it's impossible to know whether the advantage started in 2019 or earlier. Nobody knows the right answer, but seems like it's getting widespread acknowledgment which is a start.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 14:13:55 GMT -5
One last thing and I am off to work: Jeff SmilingGoats made a post a while ago saying (I am paraphrasing here so apologies for misinformation) that the one thing that frustrates staff and could possibly get them to discontinue TGCTours is API and the stress it causes them. So while changing API on TGCT's end could be a thing here, I also acknowledge that I don't want to create a stressor for them and if they wish things to remain the same for the sake of their own sanity, time, and the longevity of these tours I can accept that. As a known short swing user on PS4 I am happy to help them out Doyley if anything were to change by providing data from that kind of swing.
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