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Post by SmilingGoats on Jan 27, 2019 13:24:03 GMT -5
@swaeromotion
This is how the swing accuracy is determined: The magnitude of the accuracy is calculated using the average deviation of the raw input from the y axis. The "sign" or direction that the accuracy value is applied in is determined by which side of the y axis the last input from the down swing falls on. When calculating the average deviation the game gives the bottom of the back swing input, the worst case input deviation, and the end of the down swing input a higher weight.
And no, that wasn't an official event so I can't see the values.
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Post by TimB on Jan 27, 2019 13:28:48 GMT -5
I'm really sorry to be interjecting as I'm just a CCA player. But I've been reading this thread because I'm bored.
I just watched SmilingGoats two videos he posted and was reminded of a shot I took a few weeks ago where I was just farting around and experimenting. I purposely tried to put my line so far out of the blue. And still wound up on the fairway. It was like an invisible aim assist force kicked in..
Apologies to jump in here above my pay grade lol...tell me to shut up and go away if you must people.
Edited to add. I was in the beginner tour then, hence the wide blue.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 13:29:16 GMT -5
It's an advantage so far as one knows how to utilize it effectively. You choose to use the full line. You are on PS4 and could short swing if you wanted to, but instead you imply that others should change or else they will never be viewed the same as a method that inherently has a disadvantage. See how I can flip that on its head against you just like you are doing to me/others?
Again, HB created this with their data interpretation changes in this version, lobby them. I was simply stating why it wasn't worth my time (Someone has asked for my personal highlights in last weeks' thread) and I was reading all the back and forth crap from yesterday in this thread and explaining why it just isn't worth it.
People have made up their minds and despite a legal swing and never being pulled by API, I have an asterisk by my name in some peoples' eyes and that is why I can't stay silent about it. I don't even know how straight my swing is vs. this supposed 0.6% that get pulled when it is viewed with the fancy API chart. I may not be nearly as straight as they are without asking and what reason do I have to ask if I never get scores removed?
HB devs have all but admitted the game is designed for the swing mechanic to be pushed to the top of the plastic. The in-game tutorials instruct players to “push” the stick forward. So to say that players who push the stick all the way and produce a full line are “inherently” at a disadvantage is a disingenuous argument to say the least. You’re absolutely right the focus should be on HB, but again, it’s time for widespread acknowledgment that it’s an advantage accuracy-wise. Players can use it, but it’s a design flaw and distorts the competition. I’d go so far as to say it’s an exploit, but I know that’s a dirty word around here. We can all agree the difference between par and birdie is razor thin. Short swings don’t sink putts, but the long-term advantages of closer proximity on approaches is a monumental advantage. I was flipping it back on you to show how ridiculous it sounds the other way. I don't believe that at all, but using the logic you had to come to your assumption I just used the same logic to "justify" it the other way around to show it is flawed. I could further the logic you had to say that PS4 as a whole is at an advantage vs. XB1 users and we all should play on XBox. That is just another stretch of your logic. Should all PS4 users have an asterisk by their name too because XB1 is pretty much accepted to be harder tempo-wise? Again, just extending the logic you put forth.
On the HB note, there is a reason I have 8000 posts here and about 30 over there. I am not a fan of their "shiny happy people" philosophy and only want to see positive, boot licking posts. Their new forum policy they put in place when TGC2019 dropped is akin to "only post positive things about us here and any type of criticism will not be tolerated." There is very little reason or way to get through to them through the forum channels even in when using constructive criticism so I don't even bother. Have never been a fan of the official forums for golf games and this goes back to TW (EA) days.
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Post by lessangster on Jan 27, 2019 13:31:50 GMT -5
I'm really sorry to be interjecting as I'm just a CCA player. But I've been reading this thread because I'm bored. I just watched SmilingGoats two videos he posted and was reminded of a shot I took a few weeks ago where I was just farting around and experimenting. I purposely tried to put my line so far out of the blue. And still wound up on the fairway. It was like an invisible aim assist force kicked in.. Apologies to jump in here above my pay grade lol...tell me to shut up and go away if you must people. There is another post on the forums with some really funky swing feedback lines and from what I can gather the ball still went straight on those.
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Post by ijs1543 on Jan 27, 2019 13:34:36 GMT -5
Just to clarify what people are saying here. Short swinging enables the user to hit the ball dead straight every time, hit perfect distances, judge the wind perfectly, judge elevation perfectly, judge lie perfectly, read the greens perfectly and hit putts with a perfect weight every time? didnt see anyone say that, but it is a big advantage having a short swing most people who complete a full line will miss the cone on the last 5-10% so somebody that has a short swing wont suffer as much because they do not reach the last 5-10%, how many winners on the pga tour have been short swingers this year compared to full swingers?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 13:35:13 GMT -5
This shot should have gone well left in my opinion but it finished up in the fairway because of the stick coming back to its centre position. If you have a game that can give you that sort of result from an obviously poor swing I don’t see the point of arguing about a short swing that if extended would still be straighter than my result. I am guessing the ball came off of the club face to the left and then sliced back to the right. It was bad one way then the other and they canceled each other out, in effect.
Edit: I also think this also shows that one can hit the top of the plastic and still not get to the top of the feedback circle.
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Post by lessangster on Jan 27, 2019 13:37:46 GMT -5
This shot should have gone well left in my opinion but it finished up in the fairway because of the stick coming back to its centre position. If you have a game that can give you that sort of result from an obviously poor swing I don’t see the point of arguing about a short swing that if extended would still be straighter than my result. I am guessing the ball came off of the club face to the left and then sliced back to the right. It was bad one way then the other and they canceled each other out, in effect.
If I remember right it actually started pretty straight where I would have expected it to start left about 15deg. then come back.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 13:47:06 GMT -5
This is far from definitive but it sure does seem like the game was a little more forgiving on these shots than it would have been on equivalent full lines: "https://www.twitch.tv/videos/364738525?t=00h16m46s" "https://www.twitch.tv/videos/364738525?t=00h22m43s" I'd love an explanation from HB on those shots. Interesting. I've had a suspicion since the game came out that, when there are multiple directions in the same line, the game averages out and places more weight on certain parts of the swing in order to decide on the ball direction (it has to choose only one direction after all). In the driver swing above, the start of his backswing is already out of the cone at the bottom and maybe that's buggered up the algorithm, as the line then goes left back into the cone, before going right again, and it seems to me the game has become confused, decided 'sod it, on average that was probably straight-ish' and sent the ball out. Not necessarily a short swing only phenomenon though - we thumpers sometimes get the weird wonky comeback line from the top, where the effect is seen at the top end of the cone, e.g. I can miss the cone on the left but the line that comes back down from the top goes right, and the game sends the ball right rather than left. So maybe the game (incorrectly) places more weight on any move in the opposite direction from where it started to decide the ball direction? Here's a classic and tragic screenshot from Les: He says when this happens, even though the bulk of the swing line going up (which should be the whole downswing normally) was outside the cone on the left, results in a massive push right - far more weight is placed on that change in direction. So I think maybe the game struggles to decide on an appropriate direction when there are competing directions in the swing line? On Crawesy's 2nd swing you posted, I can't be 100% certain, but it looks like there's a bit of white sticking out on the right,and the top left of the line is curved rather than flat, which makes me think maybe his line came back down and right for him, after he missed the cone left, in which case it would be a similar scenario of the game averaging out competing swing line directions. Edit: holy crap while I was writing that up I see a bunch of others (including Les!) are saying pretty much the same thing
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Post by donkeypuncherben on Jan 27, 2019 13:52:23 GMT -5
Please list all the things that would satisfy you on top of passing TGCT's API checks.
-Retina scans? -Video of my rounds including when I get up to take a piss, etc? -Full API documentation charts for every shot? -A TGCT representative standing over my shoulder every time I play TGCT rounds?
.
Actually, we're also going to need to see a video of you pissing during those breaks, you know just to be sure
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 13:52:38 GMT -5
I am guessing the ball came off of the club face to the left and then sliced back to the right. It was bad one way then the other and they canceled each other out, in effect.
No the game doesn't work like that, swing line deviation produces straight pulls and pushes, i.e. direction only - no curvature is created by the swing line (only tempo, shot shaper and wind produce curve). But yes the game seems to just cancel the competing directions out.
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Post by lessangster on Jan 27, 2019 13:55:03 GMT -5
This is far from definitive but it sure does seem like the game was a little more forgiving on these shots than it would have been on equivalent full lines: "https://www.twitch.tv/videos/364738525?t=00h16m46s" "https://www.twitch.tv/videos/364738525?t=00h22m43s" I'd love an explanation from HB on those shots. Interesting. I've had a suspicion since the game came out that, when there are multiple directions in the same line, the game averages out and places more weight on certain parts of the swing in order to decide on the ball direction (it has to choose only one direction after all). In the driver swing above, the start of his backswing is already out of the cone at the bottom and maybe that's buggered up the algorithm, as the line then goes left back into the cone, before going right again, and it seems to me the game has become confused, decided 'sod it, on average that was probably straight-ish' and sent the ball out. Not necessarily a short swing only phenomenon though - we thumpers sometimes get the weird wonky comeback line from the top, where the effect is seen at the top end of the cone, e.g. I can miss the cone on the left but the line that comes back down from the top goes right, and the game sends the ball right rather than left. So maybe the game (incorrectly) places more weight on any move in the opposite direction from where it started to decide the ball direction? Here's a classic and tragic screenshot from Les: He says when this happens, even though the bulk of the swing line going up (which should be the whole downswing normally) was outside the cone on the left, results in a massive push right - far more weight is placed on that change in direction. So I think maybe the game struggles to decide on an appropriate direction when there are competing directions in the swing line? On Crawesy's 2nd swing you posted, I can't be 100% certain, but it looks like there's a bit of white sticking out on the right,and the top left of the line is curved rather than flat, which makes me think maybe his line came back down and right for him, after he missed the cone left, in which case it would be a similar scenario of the game averaging out competing swing line directions. Edit: holy crap while I was writing that up I see a bunch of others (including Les!) are saying pretty much the same thing I don’t think I will fail the API with those results, I think the game extrapolates a straight line from the top of my backswing to the last point of my downswing irrespective of my line starting out left from the top. I don’t always get feedback like that though I do play some good rounds occasionally. 😁
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Post by GW_Hope on Jan 27, 2019 14:13:52 GMT -5
Complaining and pointing fingers does nothing to solve the problem. I suggest if it bothers you to say something in the HB forums. They like to ignore you but with enough numbers they might take it seriously. They do read and monitor. I get threads locked all the time! At least they make changes in a new game or DLC if there are any.. I can almost promise nothing will change unless you complain. www.hb-studios.com/forum/index.php/board,102.0.html
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Post by vivamexico on Jan 27, 2019 14:23:39 GMT -5
Agreed. I don’t think anyone should complain about flicking , personally, I think it’s very clever . I don’t think it will make an average player suddenly become a legend , but it appears that it gives more consistency throughout a round . It’s not cheating and I guess everyone has the right to try it ,with the risk of being removed from tgc tours .
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 14:27:00 GMT -5
Agreed. I don’t think anyone should complain about flicking , personally, I think it’s very clever . I don’t think it will make an average player suddenly become a legend , but it appears that it gives more consistency throughout a round . It’s not cheating and I guess everyone has the right to try it ,with the risk of being removed from tgc tours . The problem is that it seems very much confined to some DualShock4 users, and some PS4 users in particular that can use this method. It makes PS4 an advantage over PC and XB1 on tours where leaderboards are cross platform. HB doesn't have too much incentive to work on balance between all systems as they have created the Society model which pits players only vs. those on their own console. TGCTours goes beyond and pits us all together and the fact that one platform can get away with this and others cannot is frustrating to many.
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Post by Dave on Jan 27, 2019 14:27:46 GMT -5
Just to clarify what people are saying here. Short swinging enables the user to hit the ball dead straight every time, hit perfect distances, judge the wind perfectly, judge elevation perfectly, judge lie perfectly, read the greens perfectly and hit putts with a perfect weight every time? didnt see anyone say that, but it is a big advantage having a short swing most people who complete a full line will miss the cone on the last 5-10% so somebody that has a short swing wont suffer as much because they do not reach the last 5-10%, how many winners on the pga tour have been short swingers this year compared to full swingers? I don’t know answer to that question, I believe Crawesy probably short swings, but I’m sure Mitch doesn’t, unless he’s the worlds biggest hypocrite 😂, and since Justin isn’t PS4 I’m guessing he doesn’t, I certainly don’t deliberately short swing but it does manifest itself that way due to the way I push the stick, but then that’s how I’ve always done it and will do it. And I don’t find it makes me any more accurate. Maybe if I did swing it different I would get as many fast downswings!
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