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Post by Brighttail on Jul 2, 2015 14:15:51 GMT -5
I expect a lot of criticisms and I'm cool with that. Just bear in mind that this was designed and built for the U.S. Open contest. On hole 15 a driver is a riskier play, but can still be held in the fairway. But, a 3 wood allows you to stay in the flatter part of the fairway and still have a short iron to the pin. Not every hole needs to allow for a birdie. Sometimes par is a great score. On hole 14 those trees on the left were autogenerated right before publishing. Wish they weren't there, but the hole isn't impossible. People like to use the phrase "tricked up" all the time. What I find to be tricked up or unrealistic is how people are capable of executing their intended shot >90% of the time. Straight shots with calculated distances allowing insane scores. There are people that appreciate the greater challenge. Where getting a birdie actually feels like you accomplished something. This course is more for them than the ones who expect a birdie on every hole. I think when we use "tricked up", at least me, is when a course uses things like hard firmness greens for the purpose of creating a more difficult course WITHOUT compensating for it. Having a long second iron into a green means you are going to need at least 15yards to stop the ball. Having a pin tucked in a corner is fine for some holes as not every hole needs to be a "birdie hole". But too often people don't balance out a course. Good courses usually have 6 hard pin positions, 6 easy ones and 6 somewhere in between. Your course would be very nice, if you switched around the pins a bit to give this type of diversity. Many greens are large enough to allow for it and they are contoured enough to even allow shots that can feed to the hole if you hit it right. As it stands now there are too many holes that are tucked behind a bunker or such and you are hitting a long iron in that simply won't hold period. While some shots, sure you can say, hit the rough or upslope for a chance at birdie, not every long shot should be this way, and most are. Yes you have a few holes that require a lower iron and it is okay to tuck these pins, but I still suggest trying to even things out a bit, unless you are planning a four pin placement scenario then you can do what Elm did and create days with medium greens, ect. It is a beautiful course tho.
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Post by blackaces13 on Jul 2, 2015 14:33:12 GMT -5
Don't expect to birdie every hole. Love Elmview, love Empyreal just didn't think this course was a good course. IIRC, you pretty much birdied every hole at Elmview.
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Post by Alexander Salvator on Jul 2, 2015 15:02:53 GMT -5
I love challenging courses, but I am not a masochist. This course is just too much in every aspect. Honestly, I do not understand how this could become a TGC Tour golf course. Staying in Europe or taking a break next week.
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Post by Alexander Salvator on Jul 2, 2015 15:06:36 GMT -5
I prefer to play the tougher courses over the "birdie-fest" tracks. However, Harbour Pointe is just too much for me. The firmness, green speeds, shape of the greens, and pin placements were maddening. Tbh, I still think HB needs to work on the ball-roll physics a bit. Watching a ball, that is barely moving, roll UP a severe slope on the green, and then stop dead in it's tracks on the side of said slope is enough to make me call my local asylum to check on vacancies. ;-) If the ball goes straight up a hill it will not roll down (for whatever reason). If you hit the slope on a curve the ball will react properly.
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Post by steelereign on Jul 2, 2015 15:17:27 GMT -5
I prefer to play the tougher courses over the "birdie-fest" tracks. However, Harbour Pointe is just too much for me. The firmness, green speeds, shape of the greens, and pin placements were maddening. Tbh, I still think HB needs to work on the ball-roll physics a bit. Watching a ball, that is barely moving, roll UP a severe slope on the green, and then stop dead in it's tracks on the side of said slope is enough to make me call my local asylum to check on vacancies. ;-) If the ball goes straight up a hill it will not roll down (for whatever reason). If you hit the slope on a curve the ball will react properly. Yep. That's true. To be fair, I've played the game long enough to know this and should be able to plan shots accordingly. Although, it was seemingly impossible on Harbour Pointe.
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Post by blackaces13 on Jul 2, 2015 15:23:41 GMT -5
I can't wait to play this course now. The harder the better. I hope it's a bloodbath.
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Post by Doyley on Jul 2, 2015 15:47:57 GMT -5
Yep, I'm looking forward to this one too. 6-under is the record on PC - I doubt anyone does that 4 rounds. Should be a grind but I enjoy those!
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Post by mcbogga on Jul 2, 2015 17:29:35 GMT -5
Great to see Harbour Pointe getting a tour stop. Very good course that deserved better in the US Open contest. Could maybe have had a couple of pins a bit more accessible - but this is much better than courses set up to provide the easiest birdie possible like the euro course this week. The glacier is a great course and one of the most beautiful in game - but the Rotary club monthly medal pin set up is just not tour worthy.
Until training wheels start coming off Harbour Pointe is what top tour set ups should look like. Crossing over for sure - especially since the Scottish open - traditionally a quite though links prelude to the open - seems to have turned into another birdie fest.
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Post by mcbogga on Jul 2, 2015 17:36:28 GMT -5
I expect a lot of criticisms and I'm cool with that. Just bear in mind that this was designed and built for the U.S. Open contest. On hole 15 a driver is a riskier play, but can still be held in the fairway. But, a 3 wood allows you to stay in the flatter part of the fairway and still have a short iron to the pin. Not every hole needs to allow for a birdie. Sometimes par is a great score. On hole 14 those trees on the left were autogenerated right before publishing. Wish they weren't there, but the hole isn't impossible. People like to use the phrase "tricked up" all the time. What I find to be tricked up or unrealistic is how people are capable of executing their intended shot >90% of the time. Straight shots with calculated distances allowing insane scores. There are people that appreciate the greater challenge. Where getting a birdie actually feels like you accomplished something. This course is more for them than the ones who expect a birdie on every hole. I think when we use "tricked up", at least me, is when a course uses things like hard firmness greens for the purpose of creating a more difficult course WITHOUT compensating for it. Having a long second iron into a green means you are going to need at least 15yards to stop the ball. Having a pin tucked in a corner is fine for some holes as not every hole needs to be a "birdie hole". But too often people don't balance out a course. Good courses usually have 6 hard pin positions, 6 easy ones and 6 somewhere in between. Your course would be very nice, if you switched around the pins a bit to give this type of diversity. Many greens are large enough to allow for it and they are contoured enough to even allow shots that can feed to the hole if you hit it right. As it stands now there are too many holes that are tucked behind a bunker or such and you are hitting a long iron in that simply won't hold period. While some shots, sure you can say, hit the rough or upslope for a chance at birdie, not every long shot should be this way, and most are. Yes you have a few holes that require a lower iron and it is okay to tuck these pins, but I still suggest trying to even things out a bit, unless you are planning a four pin placement scenario then you can do what Elm did and create days with medium greens, ect. It is a beautiful course tho. For tour set ups the 6-6-6 rule should be more 6 risky 6 hard and 6 near unreachable... If anything - designers are too conservative with pins in game. Top players are good... Defend that par. Do agree that 4 pin setups that has a couple of risk/reward birdie/eagle holes per round are the most fun.
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Post by edi_vedder on Jul 2, 2015 18:50:45 GMT -5
Okay then... played a practice round on each of the upcoming courses... and still don't know what to do. Harbour Pointe is really a beast. I think if you decide on playing here, you have to change your gameplan from anything you've done before to just save Par, no matter how. Birdie should and will feel like Xmas and Easter on the same day. Managed a Par-round, but could have been 1-2 strokes better at least. And I really like the look of the course, it's stunning! And then there was my practice round at Drift CC. First round ever on that course, and what happened? Shot a -14... without an Eagle, Hole-Out or Chip-in. Seems like this course fits my style of playing somehow. As said before, I'm still not sure what to do/register for. With the relatively high purse at the Scottish Open (and my unsatisfactory standing on the Euro Money List), I might stay in Europe!
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JoeOP
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 128
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Post by JoeOP on Jul 2, 2015 18:51:40 GMT -5
Until training wheels start coming off Harbour Pointe is what top tour set ups should look like. If you mean the pga tour will have aids off - that better not ever happen or that will be the downfall of this tour.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2015 19:35:48 GMT -5
I'm on CC-A tour and I apparently played this weeks ago and shot a +3. Today I was E thru 16 (missed a gimme birdie putt on the lone par 5 from 5 feet away!) with one birdie and one par. But then I doubled both 17 and 18 for a +4.
My only complaint is there's a long par 4 on the back 9 (14 maybe?) where you drive left unless you have tailwind, then there is a narrow strip to the right of the other landing area that takes off a little distance. Anyways, I had an 8 o'clock wind, so I had to drive left. The second shot was 215 with tall trees directly in the way of a guarded pin on the left side of the green. I was playing turn based with my previous round. I hit the trunk of the tree then and now I saw no alternative but to lay up 30 or so yards short of the green, which was no bargain. This hole, IMO, should have been lengthened from the listed 490 yards to 520-530 or so and made it a par 5. As a par 4, this hole seemed the only truly "tricked up" hole out there, but as a lengthened par 5 it would have been a good hole as it was with the 2nd shot longer into the green and maybe the two trees not so directly in the way, but maybe slightly off-center, but the branches still in play???
I didn't find this course unbearable if par is your goal and not birdie, birdie, birdie.
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Post by steelereign on Jul 2, 2015 20:01:11 GMT -5
I dunno Mcbogga... You may have swayed my thinking. I absolutely hated my practice round on this course, but I always prefer the more challenging courses. I may have to switch over.
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Post by theduke21 on Jul 4, 2015 0:49:02 GMT -5
I don't mean to be rude about it at all pirate. I understand you were trying to make a difficult course and it is a great looking track. You've created some of my favorite courses on this game so I know what you're capable of.
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Post by tastegw on Jul 4, 2015 5:21:17 GMT -5
great looking course, but plays like something found out of a dumpster
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