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Post by waggy on Dec 18, 2023 13:02:49 GMT -5
Wow, just reading this thread, my game sounds just like waggy's.
Basically I have played this game since the first one. So I'm not a newcomer to the game. I don't play golf in real life, (only played casually when young, but that was 30 yrs ago) and while I really enjoy pixel golf, I have no desire to practice and make this game a lifestyle. Its just for fun, and (hopeful) relaxation. I enjoy 2, rarely 3 rounds in a day, and thats it. I got too many other games I enjoy.
Tempo is the thing for me. I can do the math, I can do the strategy, I know where to try to place the ball, but I can't seem to do that consistently. I will try to hit my ball in the proper spot, and 50% of the time I either miss hit it completely, or it goes left or right. But since I have no idea what I did to cause that... the minute I start playing it left or right.... I then start to hit it straight as an arrow and since I played it to left so to speak, then I'm still in a bad spot off the fairway. That has always been my main problem, the problem no one seems to be able to help me with... I am so bad with a controller, that I don't know what I'm doing physically that causes the ball to go the way it did. Like Waggy said, I can't move the controller any straighter or a better tempo than I "feel" like I'm moving it.
Once I hit a bad shot or two, then its all downhill it seems. Mentally, I'm at the point that I do so bad, I'm subconsciously trying to fix whatever I did bad on the previous shots, and all the sudden I can't hit anything right.
Also, like waggy, I tend to take too many chances. I get suckered into going for that risky shot. every. time. you designers get me on that one!
So couple that with the fact that the ball constantly does things that I don't expect or know what causes it. I will be hitting uphill slope, the green is 30 feet above me, and I'll have the club that lands the ball just before the hole... and somehow it carries 20 feet off the back of the green. Just one example, but quite frequently that kind of thing happens, I'm thinking according to all the math I read, and how the ball behaves, that should have never happened... what happened? I don't know.. if I knew what caused it, I would know how to fix it.
So what does this have to do with the topic? Probably not a thing. But it helps me to talk, hoping someone will listen, (thank you to anyone that did!) and I thought it interesting to read most of Waggy's comments on play seems to mirror my own.
Regarding improving the Experience, I honestly don't mind the difficult courses. I mean, I play the Kinetic one each week for practice. Now it IS aggravating for me to (given the above commentary) finally get that one in 10 good shot, only to see it roll completely off the green or fairway. But again, as long as I am playing people comparable to me, I'm ok with that.
-which brings me to the only thing I would love to see a way to improve-
When I qualified back last year, I had one of my very few GREAT games. I played Qualifying great and got put in CC-E I should be in CC-L or K. The current system has you go up or down... SLOWLY. Which is good. Unless you get put in a division 7 divisions away from where you should be. I am not a player that will roll over, I play my best each time I play. So, it has been over a year now, of slowly loosing, playing people that are way better than me, watching others complain about scores I can only dream of. I am just now down to CC-I. I think... maybe J.. but its been a very down and hard to play year, simply because I got put in the wrong division, if and if there was a way to say hey I should be down in K, I don't know what it was.
So maybe thats what I would suggest. Maybe there could be something for those that are stuck in the wrong division to get to the right division without having to wait a year or more.
See, I brought it back to topic!
Thanks. Ironically, I just rangered an "Elite" course and shot 76 under some really tough conditions. It makes no sense but it is what it is. |
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Post by albinobluesheep on Dec 18, 2023 13:06:40 GMT -5
disclaimer: I am still fighting for my tour card, but I was only +10 after 2 rounds last week, and then my swing timing fell apart, but the below helped me get close.Set your difficulty settings for Your Career/casual play to match TGCTs, but with Pro-vision True-shot on (and only that one), so you can see how adjusting loft/spin directly affects the carry distance, making mental notes of how much it's changing depending on the club. Be actively paying attention to what club you are hitting, and what swing type, instead of just adjusting until the target arrow is where you want (what I used to do before playing TGCTours). I will play some rounds with pro-vision off as well to give my self a "test" to make sure I'm actually learning how it affect my distance. Keep the rest of the true Pro-visions off, so those aren't affecting your shot shape adjustments. Also, avoid less-than 100% swings, except for Chipping since that's sometimes unavoidable. If you are aiming for the front tier of a green with a 85% swing, and then you miss judge the back swing and go at 90% or 95%, you could fly 10-20 yards beyond where you wanted. Change to Pitch or Flop to get closer with a 100% swing, and then use the loft/spin adjustments to tweak it closer. I did a lot of practice just on the range, but if you want to have more variety, you could whip up an auto-gen course in the designer, pick a spot to play from in the designer, and it lets you re-wind the shot while play testing. Or spend some time just designing a course your self! I end up with a decent amount of practice just play testing my courses, hitting a drive, marking that spot and then taking a bunch of shots from there trying to hit different parts of the greens too see if they are impossible or just "hard". Side-note: I REALLY wish PGA2k23 had a "practice round" option that let you just drop a ball at any spot on the course and say "let me hit 10 balls from here" and have it just auto-mulligan you 10 times in a row, even letting you skip the ball reaching it's final resting place
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Post by Brenelan on Dec 18, 2023 14:42:49 GMT -5
Have you tried the 3-Click mechanic? Yeah. Believe it or not, I can't get the hang of it which is odd. 3 click is the first thing I played back in the 90s when I got my first golf game. But for some reason, this form of it baffles the hell out of me. Same here. Loved 3-click back in the Links days. Tried it here for an afternoon, started out terrible, ended up abysmal. Kudos to anyone who can do this well. |
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Post by albinobluesheep on Dec 18, 2023 17:26:34 GMT -5
Having designed this week's course (it's not long), that approach will kill you. Not to make this the informal complaint box or anything, but SIR I know par is irrelevant with everyone playing the same course, but this...with any thing other than a tail wind...is NOT a par 4...
I have no other complaints about the course, I'm quite enjoying it.Upon missing the green, chipping it to 2 inches, and tapping in for my par, I withdrawal my complaint...for now... |
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Post by b101 on Dec 19, 2023 3:16:10 GMT -5
Having designed this week's course (it's not long), that approach will kill you. Not to make this the informal complaint box or anything, but SIRI know par is irrelevant with everyone playing the same course, but this...with any thing other than a tail wind...is NOT a par 4...
I have no other complaints about the course, I'm quite enjoying it.Upon missing the green, chipping it to 2 inches, and tapping in for my par, I withdrawal my complaint...for now... Your complaint is noted. I would draw your attention to the following: a) you can easily reach in two even if you play three wood off the tee, b) with the longest driver, you can reach the second fairway if you loft up, but it brings a lot of risk into play, c) there’s a load of fairway short of the green for you to land a ball short and roll it on, with minimal hazards, d) the green contours aren’t severe and there’s a slope that funnels your ball towards the most tucked pin location (if you look for it). There are other points to make, but those are all the things you’re probably missing in terms of how to play the hole with little risk. Of course, you could just hit driver and run into the creek when there’s loads of other fairway you could play to… that’s also an option 🙂 |
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Post by albinobluesheep on Dec 19, 2023 3:21:32 GMT -5
d) the green contours aren’t severe and there’s a slope that funnels your ball towards the most tucked pin location (if you look for it). yes, well, that only helps if I HIT the green with my 3w, instead of making a fast swing and ending up way above and left of the green, but I did use the funneling to roll down to a tap in par for the 2nd rounds hole location. That post was 75% written after my first tee shot of the 2nd round.  2nd round hitting into the wind I pumped a driver toward that large bunker on the right of the fairway and rolled down short of the creek safely. I honestly can't remember what I did on the first round, but I think I layed up short of the creek because I didn't think I could clear it. |
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Post by b101 on Dec 19, 2023 5:13:25 GMT -5
Oh I didn’t say the second shot was a piece of cake. Just that you have choices as to how you take on the difficulty 🙂
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Post by Demonondalinks on Dec 19, 2023 6:58:33 GMT -5
Not to make this the informal complaint box or anything, but SIRI know par is irrelevant with everyone playing the same course, but this...with any thing other than a tail wind...is NOT a par 4...
I have no other complaints about the course, I'm quite enjoying it.Upon missing the green, chipping it to 2 inches, and tapping in for my par, I withdrawal my complaint...for now... Your complaint is noted. I would draw your attention to the following: a) you can easily reach in two even if you play three wood off the tee, b) with the longest driver, you can reach the second fairway if you loft up, but it brings a lot of risk into play, c) there’s a load of fairway short of the green for you to land a ball short and roll it on, with minimal hazards, d) the green contours aren’t severe and there’s a slope that funnels your ball towards the most tucked pin location (if you look for it). There are other points to make, but those are all the things you’re probably missing in terms of how to play the hole with little risk. Of course, you could just hit driver and run into the creek when there’s loads of other fairway you could play to… that’s also an option 🙂 Just looking at the overhead of this hole it appears to me to be a perfectly fine tough hole and with the pin location a par should feel like a birdie. And a birdie probably beats 60% of the field. |
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Post by prowse00 on Dec 19, 2023 8:20:03 GMT -5
Your complaint is noted. I would draw your attention to the following: a) you can easily reach in two even if you play three wood off the tee, b) with the longest driver, you can reach the second fairway if you loft up, but it brings a lot of risk into play, c) there’s a load of fairway short of the green for you to land a ball short and roll it on, with minimal hazards, d) the green contours aren’t severe and there’s a slope that funnels your ball towards the most tucked pin location (if you look for it). There are other points to make, but those are all the things you’re probably missing in terms of how to play the hole with little risk. Of course, you could just hit driver and run into the creek when there’s loads of other fairway you could play to… that’s also an option 🙂 Just looking at the overhead of this hole it appears to me to be a perfectly fine tough hole and with the pin location a par should feel like a birdie. And a birdie probably beats 60% of the field. Was thinking the same. On many occasions, had to stop and think, "let's not be a d*ck here, get the wood out and just play safe" If my 2nd shot lands nicely for a birdie opportunity, great. If not don't let the hole win by taking par, smile and move on. Didn't always go to plan but thought it was a great testing course. Very much looking forward to going out later for the final rounds. |
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Post by b101 on Dec 19, 2023 10:49:45 GMT -5
Couple of other things worth pointing out from a designer's perspective:
1) We rarely make courses for a specific tour. Often, this is exclusively for the CC and Major contests, and when we do run those, nailing the difficulty is by far the hardest part of the contests. Worth taking a second to really think about that. Even when the difficulty is specified for a design contest and THE key factor, the best designers in the game find it tough to get that difficulty right.
2) More often, we'll aim for 'interesting' golf - like that par four above, I'm looking for different lines of play and giving the player choices. If I make it too easy where driver down the middle is always the play, then there's no choice to be made and it's dull golf. If I make it too hard where the angles are too difficult or shot values are too high, it's not fun either. It's about finding that balance - often, I'll balance easier holes and shots with harder ones. Which, again, mean there's no 'specific' CC course/Kinetic course etc. Oh, and what might be unreachable for one player with a 285 yard driver is REALLY easy for the guy with the 305 yard driver to the extent that there's no choice to be made.
3) So, when schedulers are trying to set up courses that we didn't make for a specific tour, that's an almost impossible job. And that's before you factor in wind, different flights, driver distances etc.
Just a few further thoughts that might explain what you see.
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Post by albinobluesheep on Dec 19, 2023 11:26:44 GMT -5
For what it's worth I was attempting to make my post very lighthearted, and reflecting my "frustrations" as a player clawing for a tour card. I rather enjoyed the course and actually spent some time flying around, since I haven't actually done that with any of your courses yet (beyond what I have seen in all the helpful design videos)
I just got a chuckle out of reading "it's not long" a few moments before teeing it up on a 500yard par 4.
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Post by waggy on Dec 19, 2023 12:33:51 GMT -5
Couple of other things worth pointing out from a designer's perspective: 1) We rarely make courses for a specific tour. Often, this is exclusively for the CC and Major contests, and when we do run those, nailing the difficulty is by far the hardest part of the contests. Worth taking a second to really think about that. Even when the difficulty is specified for a design contest and THE key factor, the best designers in the game find it tough to get that difficulty right. 2) More often, we'll aim for 'interesting' golf - like that par four above, I'm looking for different lines of play and giving the player choices. If I make it too easy where driver down the middle is always the play, then there's no choice to be made and it's dull golf. If I make it too hard where the angles are too difficult or shot values are too high, it's not fun either. It's about finding that balance - often, I'll balance easier holes and shots with harder ones. Which, again, mean there's no 'specific' CC course/Kinetic course etc. Oh, and what might be unreachable for one player with a 285 yard driver is REALLY easy for the guy with the 305 yard driver to the extent that there's no choice to be made. 3) So, when schedulers are trying to set up courses that we didn't make for a specific tour, that's an almost impossible job. And that's before you factor in wind, different flights, driver distances etc. Just a few further thoughts that might explain what you see. I understand what you're saying and there's no question that designing courses for the tour is difficult at best. My complaint is not with the borderline courses or even courses that play on the more difficult side. My complaint is with the obvious "too difficult for the tier" courses. I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about. The other day I tested a Platinum Major course that was without a doubt the most brutal course I'd ever played. I shot 101. Now, if that course had been scheduled for CC, I think there would have been an obvious backlash. But naturally, a course that difficult would never be scheduled for CC. At what point on the sliding scale do we hit a course that's not quite Platinum Major but certainly not even "easy" enough for CC-A, let alone CC-L? I think we hit that sliding scale limit last week. Sure, the top score in CC-A was 51 under par. But did you look at the scores for the lower CC tiers? There was no question that this particular course was pushing the limits at best and overpowered for CC at worst. It should have been an obvious call that this course might have been better suited to Kinetic. A slightly easier course would have still been a challenge without being as rage inducing. I think if you were to take a survey of the CC population, a vast majority would have said last week's course was too difficult for CC. The irony of all this is that this course that I felt was too hard to play at this level, was the first cut I made since the week I jumped up to CC-J. Fact is, the easier course, I can't compete because my skill doesn't allow me to shoot better than 1 or 2 over par when everyone else is shooting 7 to 15 under. It appears the harder courses brings everyone else closer to my level. It doesn't really make any sense but it is what it is. A week where I thought for sure I was going back to Q-School, I end up losing a strike. Go figure. Anyway, I've said my peace on this subject. Until all this, I've hardly said a peep around here. I'll go back to quietly playing my rounds and whatever happens, happens. In the meantime, I'll ranger when I can and try to make sense of that. The Elite course I just tested and found relatively easy for Elite still has me baffled. |
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Post by b101 on Dec 19, 2023 12:54:21 GMT -5
waggy - if you're referring to KEG Farm, we designed that for Q School last year, where everyone qualified for tours. It's super wide off the tee, therefore probably helps with your tempo and has big greens with lots of feeder slopes. The aim was for something that offered challenge in going low to the very top guys but being playable for everyone. My guess is that probably helped with your tempo. Difficulty there was in the pin positions and getting close for birdies. Probably on the easier side for Elite, for sure. And yeah, last week's CC course was definitely a toughie.
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Post by Art Vandelay on Dec 19, 2023 13:46:12 GMT -5
waggy - if you're referring to KEG Farm, we designed that for Q School last year, where everyone qualified for tours. It's super wide off the tee, therefore probably helps with your tempo and has big greens with lots of feeder slopes. The aim was for something that offered challenge in going low to the very top guys but being playable for everyone. My guess is that probably helped with your tempo. Difficulty there was in the pin positions and getting close for birdies. Probably on the easier side for Elite, for sure. And yeah, last week's CC course was definitely a toughie. No tougher than this week IMHO. Conditions make a big difference! |
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Post by waggy on Dec 19, 2023 18:26:41 GMT -5
waggy - if you're referring to KEG Farm, we designed that for Q School last year, where everyone qualified for tours. It's super wide off the tee, therefore probably helps with your tempo and has big greens with lots of feeder slopes. The aim was for something that offered challenge in going low to the very top guys but being playable for everyone. My guess is that probably helped with your tempo. Difficulty there was in the pin positions and getting close for birdies. Probably on the easier side for Elite, for sure. And yeah, last week's CC course was definitely a toughie. No tougher than this week IMHO. Conditions make a big difference! I'm actually scoring worse this week on a course I feel is infinitely easier than last week's. Go figure. |
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