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Post by waggy on Dec 16, 2023 14:07:41 GMT -5
I'm going to make this short and to the point and then whoever wants to can put in their 2 cents.
Problem 1 - This is still ultimately a video game where you move a joy stick back and forth. It's not like you're swinging a golf club. So, in order to make the courses challenging, many things need to be done to them.
Tucked Pins
Narrow Fairways
Numerous Traps
Fast and Firm Greens
Long Holes
The list goes on.
Problem 2 - There are 12 levels in CC, which is where I will be forever and I'm fine with that. But the problem comes with scheduling. To give those in A, B, and C something that doesn't bore them to tears, the course needs to be Kinetic Level. These weeks, those in J, K and L are totally frustrated and discouraged, Case in point, this week I made the cut with +12 after 2 rounds. I never heard of such insanity. Conversely, the weeks where they give the guys on the bottom a break, the guys in A, B and C must be bored stiff.
Proposed Solution - CC A through F plays a more difficult course that week and CC G through L plays an easier course.
Yes, I understand this makes more work for the schedulers. So before anybody brings that up I already know. But the current situation, to me, is untenable. The game is hard enough to play as it is with all the tricked up conditions that have to be created. It doesn't have to be made any more difficult by throwing courses at us that just want to make us quit altogether. Sorry, but when I land a ball in the middle of the fairway and it still ends up rolling into the water, that to me is a huge problem.
Thoughts, opinions? Alternate solutions? Or is the general consensus here to just suck it up and deal with it?
FWIW, I don't expect anything to change and I'm resigned to that. Ultimately when I end up back in Q-School I'll be done with the tour anyway. It's pretty much just a matter of time.
Anyway, I was told this is the place to bring this up so hit me with your best shot.
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Post by sroel908 on Dec 16, 2023 14:28:07 GMT -5
Counterpoint, as said by VctryLnSprts previously: Everyone is playing against people with a similar skill level in their flight. So no matter what difficulty the course is that week in CC, all that matters is how you perform against your peers. If you play well enough, you eventually get promoted. If you play poorly, you get demoted. Thus, you eventually fall into the flight with the appropriate skill level, or you'll fall into qualifying again and have to work to get better and get back on the tours. Courses will be difficult some weeks, easy other weeks. And you can't just brush off the fact that adding one more course to the process each week would be a fairly sizeable task. It's already taking a long time to get courses rangered, and new Tour Worthy courses aren't coming in all that fast, either. Having to find a course that would now squeeze in between Kinetic and CC-F would add another aspect to this whole thing, and honestly, the courses picked for both halves of CC would probably be indistinguishable in difficulty most of the time anyway. |
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Post by Brenelan on Dec 16, 2023 14:29:57 GMT -5
My understanding is that TGC is maxed out on societies at this point (?). So not sure they could split up the CC side.
I'd be down with trimming down the number but enlarging the population of the individual CC tiers. But that doesn't really solve your problem.
I would disagree that the situation is untenable - looking historically, this week was a bit of an outlier. You got a tough course this week, it happens occasionally. Most weeks, it takes around par or better to make a cut in CC-L, and that seems about right to me. But I will be interested to see what additional feedback you get from the rest of the player base.
Ultimately, the staff here is unlikely to make any structural changes to the setup of the tours midseason. And by the end of this season, we'll theoretically closing in on a new version of the game. So there will be considerable analysis of the path going forward at that point.
Hope you hang around and see if your fortunes turn around here and continue to add your voice.
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Post by donkeypuncherben on Dec 16, 2023 15:47:50 GMT -5
Seems like you are seeing a wide variety of courses which should be a good thing. Just worry about how you're adapting to the course relative to your peers in your flights and ignore what you're shooting relative to par
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Post by Demonondalinks on Dec 16, 2023 16:24:52 GMT -5
Take a practice round and if it's not to your liking, sit out that week.
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Post by waggy on Dec 16, 2023 16:30:02 GMT -5
Take a practice round and if it's not to your liking, sit out that week. If I did that, I'd probably miss half the tour. And don't you get demotion strikes for missing rounds? |
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Post by sroel908 on Dec 16, 2023 16:38:13 GMT -5
Take a practice round and if it's not to your liking, sit out that week. If I did that, I'd probably miss half the tour. And don't you get demotion strikes for missing rounds? No. You get demo marks if you start an event and don't finish it. But you don't get any marks for simply not playing events. |
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Post by boffo on Dec 16, 2023 16:44:42 GMT -5
This one post has got us more than half way to the Wagtunes classic “I could score as well as Ian Sweeney if the courses were all perfectly flat with no rough or hazards or wind.” I will be forever depressed that we never got to see that challenge happen.
Stupid lazy course designers using shortcuts to make their course harder like bunkers or water or fairways that aren’t a mile wide or slope on greens and all those other things you would never see on a real life golf course.
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Post by weirsy2003 on Dec 16, 2023 19:52:22 GMT -5
My general thoughts are you play against the players in your flight and that’s what you should be comparing yourself to rather than score relative to par. The scoring, in what is in fact just a video game, will never be realistic to real life no matter what conditions and settings are used so frankly people just need to get over that and worry about improving their own game. The other thing to understand is there is a very wide skill level range within the Tours. What a low flight CC player thinks is too difficult, tricked up, too long is going to be vastly different to what a Plat player thinks as the skill gap is just enormous. Compete against the people at your relative skill level, try to have some fun and either you improve or you don’t. Everyone has a max skill level they’re capable of and that’s just how it is.
By the way CC was once split into 2 tiers. Somebody might remember better but I believe when I came in (end of 2019?) there was a CC-Pro which was CC-A to CC-D and a CC-Amateur which was CC-E and below. I don’t recall why it switched exactly but I think it was either because the Beer League was added, TGC Tours lost a society slot or it was just deemed unnecessary. Honestly I think it was the latter as it does mean more work for schedulers and rangers. Particularly now, when the game is basically at its low point in popularity it’s pretty difficult to add more to it. The Tours already rely on very few people to do most of the work and that’s only becoming more challenging over the past couple years.
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Post by ErixonStone on Dec 16, 2023 20:19:56 GMT -5
One suggestion I came up with is, instead of splitting CC into 2 sets of flights like it used to be, how about adding flights to Kinetic? This would put the better players in what is now CC-(A-C) (above 50th percentile of the player base) onto a tougher schedule.
I get that Kinetic is supposed to be akin to the Korn Ferry tour and is considered a "Pro Tour" but it always seemed weird to me that 75% (rough estimate) of the TGCT player base was playing one course while the other 25% (again, rough estimate) was spread out over 3 courses.
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Post by b101 on Dec 17, 2023 4:28:53 GMT -5
The point you raise about CC is a valid one, but there's limitations behind the scenes in recoding the site, as well as the access HB is willing/able to give.
As ever though, it's less about what you're saying and more about how you're choosing to say it. Nobody minds constructive criticism. But the tone of your posts is frequently overly critical, whether in ranger threads, shoutbox etc and is only going to mean those opinions are dismissed as just someone ranting.
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Post by waggy on Dec 17, 2023 7:53:53 GMT -5
The point you raise about CC is a valid one, but there's limitations behind the scenes in recoding the site, as well as the access HB is willing/able to give. As ever though, it's less about what you're saying and more about how you're choosing to say it. Nobody minds constructive criticism. But the tone of your posts is frequently overly critical, whether in ranger threads, shoutbox etc and is only going to mean those opinions are dismissed as just someone ranting. As I said, I expect nothing to change. It's just frustrating playing courses that I have no business playing at my level. They might as well just toss the Platinum Major I tested yesterday where I shot 101. What's the difference? Too hard is too hard. At this point, the degree of difficulty is immaterial. |
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Post by trailducker on Dec 17, 2023 10:38:25 GMT -5
The point you raise about CC is a valid one, but there's limitations behind the scenes in recoding the site, as well as the access HB is willing/able to give. As ever though, it's less about what you're saying and more about how you're choosing to say it. Nobody minds constructive criticism. But the tone of your posts is frequently overly critical, whether in ranger threads, shoutbox etc and is only going to mean those opinions are dismissed as just someone ranting. As I said, I expect nothing to change. It's just frustrating playing courses that I have no business playing at my level. They might as well just toss the Platinum Major I tested yesterday where I shot 101. What's the difference? Too hard is too hard. At this point, the degree of difficulty is immaterial. Responded to the accusation of being just someone that rants, with a rant. That’ll show ‘em! |
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Post by Art Vandelay on Dec 17, 2023 12:56:56 GMT -5
The point you raise about CC is a valid one, but there's limitations behind the scenes in recoding the site, as well as the access HB is willing/able to give. As ever though, it's less about what you're saying and more about how you're choosing to say it. Nobody minds constructive criticism. But the tone of your posts is frequently overly critical, whether in ranger threads, shoutbox etc and is only going to mean those opinions are dismissed as just someone ranting. As I said, I expect nothing to change. It's just frustrating playing courses that I have no business playing at my level. They might as well just toss the Platinum Major I tested yesterday where I shot 101. What's the difference? Too hard is too hard. At this point, the degree of difficulty is immaterial. Aren't there societies in the game that us the Pro swing? Maybe one of those might help you score well enough to enjoy the game. Afterall, this is a game and games are supposed to be fun not misery like you describe your experience. |
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Post by waggy on Dec 17, 2023 13:19:03 GMT -5
As I said, I expect nothing to change. It's just frustrating playing courses that I have no business playing at my level. They might as well just toss the Platinum Major I tested yesterday where I shot 101. What's the difference? Too hard is too hard. At this point, the degree of difficulty is immaterial. Aren't there societies in the game that us the Pro swing? Maybe one of those might help you score well enough to enjoy the game. Afterall, this is a game and games are supposed to be fun not misery like you describe your experience. I have no trouble with the regular swing. In fact, it's infinitely better than it was when I first started. My problem is with the degree of difficulty they believe they have to make these courses in order for the game to be "challenging". There are simply times I think they go way over the deep end. |
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