A bad rap

[gunslinger1972]

Reading many message boards , face book groups , instagram. The hate for this game is epic. Do you think 2k will learn from their mistakes? Or come out with a slight upgrade every few years ?

[Deleted]

Dec 28, 2022 15:53:56 GMT -5 gunslinger1972 said:

Reading many message boards , face book groups , instagram. The hate for this game is epic. Do you think 2k will learn from their mistakes? Or come out with a slight upgrade every few years ?

I've been as critical as anyone of this version for reasons I'll not repeat here. Personally I think the series has peaked long ago (for what I'm looking for in a golf game). To make this a good game by modern standards would need significant investment by 2k. HB seem like a really small team and whether it's a directive from 2k or their own decision they're putting all their emphasis on - in my opinion - gimmicks like consumable balls, fittings and divot derby rather than sorting the code for live play in societies, fixing leaderboards, improving gameplay.

The game needs to adopt a new engine in the next version, especially if the EA game is in anyway decent, and I can't see 2k funding it based on their priorities for this one. It almost beggars belief that 2k23 is on a freeware version of Unity and it really shows. Mutliplayer is totally broken, it looks like a game from the mid 00's on console and can't get anywhere near 60fps even on next gen systems.

Honestly, I hope I'm totally wrong and they do a massive couse correction and go back to somewhat grounded gameplay and modernise it. But I think it's more likely another refresh / patch released at full price, or the series ends within 3 or 4 years. By all accounts it seems this one has flopped in terms of player retention since release.

[sroel908]

I enjoy PGA 2K23 on the course. The game plays well, so I enjoy when I'm taking part in a round. But I enjoyed 2K21 in the same way.

As @craigh1989 mentioned above, they started to take this franchise into more "arcade" territory and into more of a revenue driver than a big step over the previous entry in the franchise. I think this game feels more like "PGA 2K21.2" than an entirely new entry. There are some improvements (tree textures, some gameplay tweaking, more gear/apparel available), but then there are still legacy issues from older games, and even things missing from previous entries...I mean, this game had 2 years development, yet we still don't have any ranked multiplayer options. They also removed several functionalities from the designer and found ways to add new glitches to the tool, too, making that harder to use.

The only big gameplay changes/adds to the game are all the things that essentially split the community: fittings, Skills, and consumable golf balls. Personally, I like the fittings. I don't care for how the consumable golf balls work, even though it's clear this game was designed to be played with them. Skills are pointless for the most part...only a few are even worth working toward or keeping unlocked, as some will never activate and others screw up your club gaps when activated and hurt you more than help.

I also dislike how they totally turned off the faucet for VC. They drip you just a few ducats here and there after playing several rounds, even though you need to pay for each of your fittings, pay out the nose for any kind of clothing or club appearances, etc. In 2K21, they gave you a ton of VC and nothing to spend it on. In 2K23, you get very little VC, and need to spend it quite frequently. It's pretty clear they hope and expect players to shell out real cash for VC. I get it, they're a business. But this is a pretty dramatic swing from how 2K21 was.

Lastly, the other modes in the game are all throwaway at this point. Career, Topgolf, Divot Derby, etc. - they are there, but offer no real longevity or immersion. I played thru career mode to get the sponsor and rival rewards, and now there's no draw to going back into it, other than the fact you get more XP for playing rounds there than anywhere else. The real courses are "meh" at best, and not any fun to play repeatedly. Some are downright unplayable even at default conditions and settings. And they've only added one course since release to the "curated" list of courses you can swap into the schedule, and that was Torrey Pines North.  As for the rest, I've played Topgolf once since release and that was enough. Haven't touched Divot Derby.

In most ways, it seems that 2K was content with resting on their laurels after catching lighting in a bottle and getting a surprise, pandemic-fueled hit with PGA 2K21. Selling 2.5-3 million copies was unexpected, but I don't really think it's because 2K21 was THAT good of a game. It was just the first major sports game that released at a time when people were wanting something that felt like a return to "normal". Plus, everyone had more time to play games...not to mention golf was also one of the activities people could do while social distancing.

To me, a lot will depend on EA's game that comes out (maybe?) this Spring. Having the majors and a robust career mode is a bigger draw than most give credit for, and if EA can nail that, they'll put a lot of heat on 2K to either innovate or die. If EA offers a truly "next-gen" golf experience with a gameplay that can come close to matching the visuals, I'd really feel that the future of the PGA 2K series would be in doubt. But that's a big "if", seeing how EA's last golf game turned out...

[sandbagger]

I was a huge pga2k21 participant.And in the big scope I only play this when I can fit in the time.It’s not that it isn’t a bad game.Just feels like a let down for me from Pga2k21.They made some aspects of the game easier.And other areas like 100 yard and in almost impossible for many.

This will feed my cold weather game curve for a while.But some top game releases are on the way early first quarter of 2023.Once they release I’m pretty sure this will be on the shelf for good

And for all the negative nay sayers.I’ve read of a few Facebook members who actually got their money back from this.By returning the hard copy to Game Stop I believe.

On a positive, I’ve noticed the older course downloads tend to look better on this version.And some views are just astounding on tee shots.But some textures just don’t fit in.And I think the bunkers actually look worse.Almost looks like they have small tire tracks running thru them

[Deleted]

Totally agree with both you guys. @sroel908 that write up captures everything I feel about this game in all honesty. If it was a patch I'd be happy enough (but annoyed at the removed features) but as a full price release with a really long 2 year dev-cycle? It feels like a piss-take in all honesty.

And sandbagger also what you mention about the game feeling easier until you get within 100 yards is my entire issue with the gameplay. On full shots master difficult is almost automatic. It's just so devoid of any challenge to the point the only challenge comes from scoring against others rather than from the mechanics and the course. And - I know this will differ from person to person - but that just bores the life out of me. Good rounds feel so unrewarding, there's no ebb and flow over tournaments, and there's very little spread in statistics. Fir and GiR are just insanely high across the board.

It feels to me like either got cold feet after the backlash to the red fast patch, or tried to even up the console disparity by making misses so unpunishing they're almost inconsequential instead of trying to fix the root cause.

[donkeypuncherben]

I understand my experience is different than many as I am Platinum level player but this is the best golf video game I have played from a gameplay perspective and I think it will be from a content perspective once designers get used to the new green speeds. I've pretty much been into golf games hardcore since 2004 and more casually before that.

The short game especially has the best mechanics of any golf game I can think of (though it is still imperfect in a lot of ways). It's the first game Tiger/Rory/TGC/Sk I can think of that didn't have some cheesy high spin easy to hit 10-20 yard shot that could just land and stick. I feel the shot shaping is also improved and the iron play on master or legend swing is so much better than any previous Tiger/TGC/2k game.

I am probably in a minority but I really hope the feedback from casual players is not going to change their direction too much, and I think the course creator is actually taken for granted by most because we're used to it. As much as I sometimes rag on the course selections and setups we have on tour I could not imagine trying to run these tours on a competing game where there's like 50 stock courses and no user created content.

[Deleted]

Dec 28, 2022 18:30:46 GMT -5 donkeypuncherben said:

I understand my experience is different than many as I am Platinum level player but this is the best golf video game I have played from a gameplay perspective and I think it will be from a content perspective once designers get used to the new green speeds. I've pretty much been into golf games hardcore since 2004 and more casually before that.

The short game especially has the best mechanics of any golf game I can think of (though it is still imperfect in a lot of ways). It's the first game Tiger/Rory/TGC/Sk I can think of that didn't have some cheesy high spin easy to hit 10-20 yard shot that could just land and stick. I feel the shot shaping is also improved and the iron play on master or legend swing is so much better than any previous Tiger/TGC/2k game.

I am probably in a minority but I really hope the feedback from casual players is not going to change their direction too much, and I think the course creator is actually taken for granted by most because we're used to it. As much as I sometimes rag on the course selections and setups we have on tour I could not imagine trying to run these tours on a competing game where there's like 50 stock courses and no user created content.

Honestly mate I'd argue listening to feedback from the players and reacting to the mass exodus after the red fast patch has dumbed this game down to the point we're at where it's a very casual experience all round. Full loft full spin and very fast is the new splash shot except you don't even need to worry about tempo on it.

It's interesting to see how people can view these changes totally differently. Gameplay wise I'd say the only thing that's more difficult is chipping from the rough, and that's a welcome change for sure! Maybe putting also but to the total detriment of realism in my opinion. But everything else is just so painfully easy and it seems to be reflected in the scores. Even in true sim master societies its just lights out round after round with FiR and GiR in the 90% range tournament after tournament.

[Deleted]

Dec 28, 2022 18:30:46 GMT -5 donkeypuncherben said:

I understand my experience is different than many as I am Platinum level player but this is the best golf video game I have played from a gameplay perspective and I think it will be from a content perspective once designers get used to the new green speeds. I've pretty much been into golf games hardcore since 2004 and more casually before that.

The short game especially has the best mechanics of any golf game I can think of (though it is still imperfect in a lot of ways). It's the first game Tiger/Rory/TGC/Sk I can think of that didn't have some cheesy high spin easy to hit 10-20 yard shot that could just land and stick. I feel the shot shaping is also improved and the iron play on master or legend swing is so much better than any previous Tiger/TGC/2k game.

I am probably in a minority but I really hope the feedback from casual players is not going to change their direction too much, and I think the course creator is actually taken for granted by most because we're used to it. As much as I sometimes rag on the course selections and setups we have on tour I could not imagine trying to run these tours on a competing game where there's like 50 stock courses and no user created content.

Totally agree with the short game as 2K21 was so awful on that front, also agree that the long game is too easy but I play with every single aid off (master swing) so there is a really good challenge to this game still.

[Deleted]

Dec 28, 2022 18:40:26 GMT -5 @craigh1989 said:

Dec 28, 2022 18:30:46 GMT -5 donkeypuncherben said:

I understand my experience is different than many as I am Platinum level player but this is the best golf video game I have played from a gameplay perspective and I think it will be from a content perspective once designers get used to the new green speeds. I've pretty much been into golf games hardcore since 2004 and more casually before that.

The short game especially has the best mechanics of any golf game I can think of (though it is still imperfect in a lot of ways). It's the first game Tiger/Rory/TGC/Sk I can think of that didn't have some cheesy high spin easy to hit 10-20 yard shot that could just land and stick. I feel the shot shaping is also improved and the iron play on master or legend swing is so much better than any previous Tiger/TGC/2k game.

I am probably in a minority but I really hope the feedback from casual players is not going to change their direction too much, and I think the course creator is actually taken for granted by most because we're used to it. As much as I sometimes rag on the course selections and setups we have on tour I could not imagine trying to run these tours on a competing game where there's like 50 stock courses and no user created content.

Honestly mate I'd argue listening to feedback from the players and reacting to the mass exodus after the red fast patch has dumbed this game down to the point we're at where it's a very casual experience all round. Full loft full spin and very fast is the new splash shot except you don't even need to worry about tempo on it.

It's interesting to see how people can view these changes totally differently. Gameplay wise I'd say the only thing that's more difficult is chipping from the rough, and that's a welcome change for sure! Maybe putting also but to the total detriment of realism in my opinion. But everything else is just so painfully easy and it seems to be reflected in the scores. Even in true sim master societies its just lights out round after round with FiR and GiR in the 90% range tournament after tournament.

Don't grids make it painfully easy, marker etc. Turn off all aids feedback etc and up the difficutlty manually. Try USE this week Craig which is an awesome challenge on the US Mastersz, so much more of a challenge than TST this week. But people complain about how easy a game is an play the game on normal or easy difficulty, playing TGCTours on Pro last year was  a joke but people loved it, it was casual skill level. In my view the best players actually play a game on hard or hardcore and there is certainly no hardcore level on TGCTours. It seems to be about ego playing the game with aids on to see how stupidly low you can go. Turn them aids all off and then we can talk about how dumbed down the game is. My view is the majority like an easier golf game.

[gunslinger1972]

Great replies.I think I never was full in on this version since it felt almost identical to Pga2k21.Infact as others have mentioned from tee to approach shots it feels a million times easier than master on 2k21. My bad shots now are being overly aggressive.As one must be since the scores are so darn low each week.When someone shoots -83 in a 72 hole event (not tgc tours)… is a prime example on how low these people are shooting.I kinda envy the casual player on this.As they seem to be getting some fun challenges in tours designed just for them.But as a whole you will be seeing super low scores from avid players

I still think the different ball types should be used on all tours.Since this is how the designers intended this game to progress

[thetaffman]

I have been enjoying the game more this past couple of weeks after resetting my calibration on xbox than before. It has taken a couple of weeks to refind my swing but I am now consistently under par, which is always my target. I'm never gonna be a Hendomendes or Horusphoenix hitting double digits every round on xbox... Hats off to you both by the way... But my game just feels in a better place.

We will always have gripes with any game that we have an interest in, maybe more critical than others, but it's because we want the best for it.

Graphically, yes 2k23 is a slight improvement on 2k21 but because they had to cater for XB1 and PS4 they couldn't go full tilt on the graphics for the new / next generation of consoles, so it was always gonna look like an uodate more than a new game.

I understand the additions of fittings / stats, that's fine no problem with that, would have liked the roll mechanic on the golf ball disappear completely as altering green speeds is not realistic.

A lot of what people want are what they have had in the previous versions of this game and for whatever reason was decided to be taken out. Golf is a social sport and is very rarely played in your own, you are always in a 2, 3 or 4 ball either playing with or against each other. So the reasoning for removing party's in society so we can play together was ludicrous, more match types, i.e. Greensomes, Team events, Stableford society?

We have seen a glimmer of what EA can offer but yet to hear anything multiplayer wise, it's all about the Majors, the 'M' word that's banned by 2K and career, if they have no real multiplayer then 2K must jump on that opportunity and take it with both hands... My issue is 2K think that Crossplay will be the answer to all their problems and we've heard nothing since the release of the roadmap apart from its due early next year

[Deleted]

Dec 28, 2022 19:07:04 GMT -5 @hammers1man said:

Dec 28, 2022 18:40:26 GMT -5 @craigh1989 said:

Honestly mate I'd argue listening to feedback from the players and reacting to the mass exodus after the red fast patch has dumbed this game down to the point we're at where it's a very casual experience all round. Full loft full spin and very fast is the new splash shot except you don't even need to worry about tempo on it.

It's interesting to see how people can view these changes totally differently. Gameplay wise I'd say the only thing that's more difficult is chipping from the rough, and that's a welcome change for sure! Maybe putting also but to the total detriment of realism in my opinion. But everything else is just so painfully easy and it seems to be reflected in the scores. Even in true sim master societies its just lights out round after round with FiR and GiR in the 90% range tournament after tournament.

Don't grids make it painfully easy, marker etc. Turn off all aids feedback etc and up the difficutlty manually. Try USE this week Craig which is an awesome challenge on the US Mastersz, so much more of a challenge than TST this week. But people complain about how easy a game is an play the game on normal or easy difficulty, playing TGCTours on Pro last year was  a joke but people loved it, it was casual skill level. In my view the best players actually play a game on hard or hardcore and there is certainly no hardcore level on TGCTours. It seems to be about ego playing the game with aids on to see how stupidly low you can go. Turn them aids all off and then we can talk about how dumbed down the game is. My view is the majority like an easier golf game.

Mate I would love to play USE - and as you know I think it's far and away the best way to play these games - but the draw distance on the console version of 23 is so bad it's really hard to enjoy playing it that way. Anything over 100 yards away is a total blurry mess.

You make a great point there though and I couldn't agree more. I think inadvertently as a community we've shifted further and further away from having any sort of gameplay challenge and made the game a total bore. First HB introducing vibration then pairing it with the marker. Then them releasing that stupid launch build of 21 with the easily exploitable red fast followed by the switch to Pro when they patched it (which, full disclosure I was all for at the time hoping for more of a chance on Xbox) has totally normalised ridiculously low scoring. This lead to designers - understandably and necessarily - making courses mega-punishing to have SOME challenge because it surely doesn't come from the gameplay. And we're left with this almost-golf game (on these settings) that has little to no resemblance to actual golf. Shortgame aside in fairness which is a marked improvement just thinking back to how easy it was in 2k21.

Bringing it back to the op's question based on all that I think honestly the horse has bolted and this series has just gone full-on pick-up-and-play casual which has maybe put off people who want something a bit more grounded and challenging tee-to-green. Then maybe a lot of people, me included, who would enjoy playing on tougher settings with the assists off Hammersman mentioned are deterred by the performance on console. Then I guess others, like Taffman above and many many others are understandably frustrated that they can't play society rounds together suddenly only to be told by support that it was never meant to be included in the game.

I dunno, it just feels directionless as a series now and swings violently from patch to patch over the past few years with no minor tweaks or fine tuning. I think people are just a little sick of all that. HB/2K have their work cut out regardless. I hope they freshen it up because even though they had their flaws as well TGC2 through to 2k21 felt much better to me than this version and were some of my favourite games warts and all.

[Brenelan]

I really like the game, I see it as a significantly better version of 2K21, although not groundbreaking (as some have noted due to using the existing engine). I'd disagree that it's geared towards casuals, since there is plenty of difficulty customization, and three click isn't anywhere as easy as many thought it would be.

On the other hand, I haven't dipped my toes into multi-player and get why that's a huge frustration for many players.

I think 2K needs to have these issues cleaned up when cross-platform drops.

[sandgroper]

The final days of 21 had it pretty much on point. Sure there were other issues like drops etc, but the game play was pretty good.
23 certainly feels like more of a patch than a new release.
There are a bunch of new issues introduced where I don’t understand why this is the case, the swing mechanics didn’t change, just how the meter works.
The depth of field is ruined where you can see the trees “come into focus” as the ball approached, or if you zoom.

The biggest issue is the change to the designer which makes it virtually impossible to use with keyboard and mouse.
Again, why change something that isn’t broke?

After a patch it’s a shot in the dark as to what has changed.
The release notes are not worth the paper they are written on with most of the changes not even noted.
If your are going to remove something like splash shot why not say so in the release notes?

So for a full priced “new” game, it’s underwhelming.

[Oscar C]

I ended up receiving it for Xmas (I made the decision to not buy it). After giving it a go on PS4 (not my preferred platform) and it’s disappointing on the extreme. So many things I could comment on and I may do so at some point but right now I can’t believe how bad it is.