jjbuzzotta
Amateur Golfer
Posts: 254
TGCT Name: Justin Buzzotta
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Post by jjbuzzotta on Oct 26, 2022 9:01:15 GMT -5
That feels simplistic- just because a player doesn't have fun playing on Legend doesn't mean they aren't competitive. My guess is this tour is supposed to be both "fun" and "competitive". You're saying some players have to choose. I disagree. We'll see how Doyley and Co feel. True. But as long as there are flighted tournaments with winners there will always be a competitive nature. I think the competitive part is implied among everyone here. CoinHen77 articulated it better than I did. Some people have more fun playing harder settings, some people have more fun playing easier settings. My hope is that both sides can be made happy with different tours. |
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Post by Brenelan on Oct 26, 2022 9:01:43 GMT -5
I'm not really in disagreement that the higher tours should be on Legend, just the characterization of the bulk of the players here.
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Post by Blade on Oct 26, 2022 9:03:33 GMT -5
When people get promoted from the KF tour in real life, I bet most of them don't like running with the PGA folks. Getting promoted should come with some challenges. I shot a -2 on CC course R1 (I was CC-K). I really enjoyed the round, unlike when I was playing in 2K21. Please leave at least the lower CC tiers in the Pro setting. Have you ever seen a PGA Tour player say that? Any athlete, any sport ever? Are they nervous and scared, yeah- but proud to get the promotion. That is my point - they are happy to be promoted, even though the challenge is most definitely increased. Same can happen here. BTW, it is not just better players but longer and tougher holes. |
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Post by fadgewacker on Oct 26, 2022 9:06:18 GMT -5
That feels simplistic- just because a player doesn't have fun playing on Legend doesn't mean they aren't competitive. My guess is this tour is supposed to be both "fun" and "competitive". You're saying some players have to choose. I disagree. We'll see how Doyley and Co feel. The issue we’re going to keep running into is that “fun” is subjective. To [mention]jjbuzzotta [/mention]‘s point, having to think your way around a course vs firing at every pin would be my definition of fun. Remember, this is coming from someone that just shot +4 on the plat test (which is still good for top 30 right now). It’s not like I’m blowing the doors off the game, but to me those top 3 tours should be the best of the best and have to be able to handle the hardest swing. That may not have been my opinion in the last game cause the swing was broken but this game seems to have worked it out. There are still 10 CC tours that can work off master or pro swings and be more fun, I just don’t know why we’re putting that “filter” on the pro tours. I just think that it's more that there are a LOT of above average golfers that will probably find Legend toom much of a pain in the arse. I used to be ok at the game, but have limited time available, and would need to dedicate quite a bit to compete on legend. I'll throw my hat out there and say if I do Q school (which will probably be set to Master), I'll more than likely be in Kinetic or above... But I'd be more likely to continue playing the game regularly, with limited time available, if Master was the setting for any of those tours, than if it was legend (based on my limited legend play time). Can't keep everyone happy - that's for sure. I'll be fine with whichever way they decide to dice it. |
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Post by CoinHen77 on Oct 26, 2022 9:22:31 GMT -5
The issue we’re going to keep running into is that “fun” is subjective. To [mention]jjbuzzotta [/mention]‘s point, having to think your way around a course vs firing at every pin would be my definition of fun. Remember, this is coming from someone that just shot +4 on the plat test (which is still good for top 30 right now). It’s not like I’m blowing the doors off the game, but to me those top 3 tours should be the best of the best and have to be able to handle the hardest swing. That may not have been my opinion in the last game cause the swing was broken but this game seems to have worked it out. There are still 10 CC tours that can work off master or pro swings and be more fun, I just don’t know why we’re putting that “filter” on the pro tours. I just think that it's more that there are a LOT of above average golfers that will probably find Legend toom much of a pain in the arse. I used to be ok at the game, but have limited time available, and would need to dedicate quite a bit to compete on legend. I'll throw my hat out there and say if I do Q school (which will probably be set to Master), I'll more than likely be in Kinetic or above... But I'd be more likely to continue playing the game regularly, with limited time available, if Master was the setting for any of those tours, than if it was legend (based on my limited legend play time). Can't keep everyone happy - that's for sure. I'll be fine with whichever way they decide to dice it. I think this brings up a good question. Have you figured out what setting Q school be on [mention]doyley [/mention]? I assume it will be set to Master but curious. |
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Post by Blade on Oct 26, 2022 9:51:28 GMT -5
Since the majority of the comments here seem to be from top half (or much better) players, I thought I would share my CC-K level of experience. I am not a good player (not even mediocre) but I enjoy the game (2K23 more than 21) and the fellowship. I play on a PC with the XBOX controller.
Since there is a lot of debate on what swing difficulty for CC (I enjoyed my CC round quite a bit and only scored a -2 but the tempo felt very consistent to me), in the interest of "science"I tried the Platinum tour event. I finished R1 +23, which included a birdie on hole 18 and one chip in (don't recall which hole, but front 9 and was 15 yards). My stats - longest drive 298 yards, longest putt 13.4 feet, FIR 46%, GIR 22%, distance to hole 48 feet, one-putt 39%, three-putt avoidance 5% (On 16 or 17 the sloping green really screwed me up and I 4 putted what should have been 2 at most), putt accuracy (s, m, l) 92%, 43%, 30%.
So my putting was about my typical. My swing path never left the gray. But my tempo was all over the place. In Pro I was never once outside the grey on tempo but three times in Legend I was at the most extreme part of the curve (2 on the fast, 1 on the slow) and very few shots were in the grey (I had 1 perfect). I had shots I thought "dang, I slowed it" and I got a fast (and vice versa). When you have an excellent power and swing path but tempo outside of the grey, the penalty is severe and really kills your score. I am not going to blame anyone except myself for the extreme tempo issues, but wanted to share them.
Like I said, I will never be Platinum (or even Pro) but thought I would share the experience of a bottom tiers player.
Greatly appreciate what the team does. I hope they takes some chances on settings but will respect their decisions and play on when the season starts.
Scott
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Post by donkeypuncherben on Oct 26, 2022 12:43:47 GMT -5
I'm a good not great player, never made platinum, probably never will. I really liked legend swing. I think with all the skills and fittings, master is going to be too easy which to me is boring. I'd like the legend option somewhere. Personally, I find a tougher swing with easier conditions more enjoyably than an easier swing with tougher conditions. Yes!! It's like actually playing golf. Planning to stay below the hole or playing to the fat part of the green to protect a par. Getting good at lag putting. Picking the rights spots to be more aggressive and executing the shots to make birdie. There may be some guys who want to be rewarded with a birdie for every good swing but I've had the most fun I've had playing single player on any TGC game playing the My Career mode of this one on Legend, partly because I have to find ways to creatively manufacture a par after a bad shot. Playing table top pin positions on an easier swing (which is what we will have to do) gets old and really rewards bean counting guys and box / click measuring over shotmaking. I don't have anything against players who play this way but a golf game should be set up to reward other types of thinking and course management too. I think the short game gets progressively easier on Legend with a lot of practice (it does take a lot of work) and proper course management. If I spend a night playing 4 or 5 rounds on Legend and then go back to the Master swing it feels too easy. I am just shooting at the pin every hole and not really even looking at possible trouble more than 20 ft from the pin. I am not really arguing that everyone should have to play it, but I can't see the TGCT Platinum tour really being a "top" tour for competitive play in this game and not playing Legend difficulty. I think a lot of better players will just eschew the tours for other societies if everything is on Master swing. |
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Post by martbloke on Oct 26, 2022 13:16:46 GMT -5
Since the majority of the comments here seem to be from top half (or much better) players, I thought I would share my CC-K level of experience. I am not a good player (not even mediocre) but I enjoy the game (2K23 more than 21) and the fellowship. I play on a PC with the XBOX controller.
Since there is a lot of debate on what swing difficulty for CC (I enjoyed my CC round quite a bit and only scored a -2 but the tempo felt very consistent to me), in the interest of "science"I tried the Platinum tour event. I finished R1 +23, which included a birdie on hole 18 and one chip in (don't recall which hole, but front 9 and was 15 yards). My stats - longest drive 298 yards, longest putt 13.4 feet, FIR 46%, GIR 22%, distance to hole 48 feet, one-putt 39%, three-putt avoidance 5% (On 16 or 17 the sloping green really screwed me up and I 4 putted what should have been 2 at most), putt accuracy (s, m, l) 92%, 43%, 30%.
So my putting was about my typical. My swing path never left the gray. But my tempo was all over the place. In Pro I was never once outside the grey on tempo but three times in Legend I was at the most extreme part of the curve (2 on the fast, 1 on the slow) and very few shots were in the grey (I had 1 perfect). I had shots I thought "dang, I slowed it" and I got a fast (and vice versa). When you have an excellent power and swing path but tempo outside of the grey, the penalty is severe and really kills your score. I am not going to blame anyone except myself for the extreme tempo issues, but wanted to share them.
Like I said, I will never be Platinum (or even Pro) but thought I would share the experience of a bottom tiers player.
Greatly appreciate what the team does. I hope they takes some chances on settings but will respect their decisions and play on when the season starts.
Scott
Here's my question. Ignoring the zones and only taking into account the spot on the tempo arc, were similar feeling swings registering in the same spot of that arc? I'm guessing answer is probably a no considering where you said you thought you slowed it but actually was a fast. This is what I don't understand from this tempo. My assumption is that irrelevant of difficulty, the same tempo swing whether it's perfect, fast, slow or whatever, should register in the same spot on that arc. So if you get a fast that registers left side of perfect on say beginner (I don't know the zones, just exampling), that same swing should be in the same spot and be a middle grey fast on say Pro, and left edge grey fast on Master and a black fast on Legend. Is this what you (and others) are feeling or do we believe that the tempo is adjusted on your difficulty you select as well? If so, that's just so wrong! |
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Post by CoinHen77 on Oct 26, 2022 17:21:27 GMT -5
Since the majority of the comments here seem to be from top half (or much better) players, I thought I would share my CC-K level of experience. I am not a good player (not even mediocre) but I enjoy the game (2K23 more than 21) and the fellowship. I play on a PC with the XBOX controller.
Since there is a lot of debate on what swing difficulty for CC (I enjoyed my CC round quite a bit and only scored a -2 but the tempo felt very consistent to me), in the interest of "science"I tried the Platinum tour event. I finished R1 +23, which included a birdie on hole 18 and one chip in (don't recall which hole, but front 9 and was 15 yards). My stats - longest drive 298 yards, longest putt 13.4 feet, FIR 46%, GIR 22%, distance to hole 48 feet, one-putt 39%, three-putt avoidance 5% (On 16 or 17 the sloping green really screwed me up and I 4 putted what should have been 2 at most), putt accuracy (s, m, l) 92%, 43%, 30%.
So my putting was about my typical. My swing path never left the gray. But my tempo was all over the place. In Pro I was never once outside the grey on tempo but three times in Legend I was at the most extreme part of the curve (2 on the fast, 1 on the slow) and very few shots were in the grey (I had 1 perfect). I had shots I thought "dang, I slowed it" and I got a fast (and vice versa). When you have an excellent power and swing path but tempo outside of the grey, the penalty is severe and really kills your score. I am not going to blame anyone except myself for the extreme tempo issues, but wanted to share them.
Like I said, I will never be Platinum (or even Pro) but thought I would share the experience of a bottom tiers player.
Greatly appreciate what the team does. I hope they takes some chances on settings but will respect their decisions and play on when the season starts.
Scott
Here's my question. Ignoring the zones and only taking into account the spot on the tempo arc, were similar feeling swings registering in the same spot of that arc? I'm guessing answer is probably a no considering where you said you thought you slowed it but actually was a fast. This is what I don't understand from this tempo. My assumption is that irrelevant of difficulty, the same tempo swing whether it's perfect, fast, slow or whatever, should register in the same spot on that arc. So if you get a fast that registers left side of perfect on say beginner (I don't know the zones, just exampling), that same swing should be in the same spot and be a middle grey fast on say Pro, and left edge grey fast on Master and a black fast on Legend. Is this what you (and others) are feeling or do we believe that the tempo is adjusted on your difficulty you select as well? If so, that's just so wrong! Not sure this is the right spot for this conversation but I’ve felt the same. I got curious and started looking into the transition stat. It sounds like it’s just the window/margin for starting your downswing in the sweet spot so you don’t over or under swing. That said, If you swing under 100 or over 100 it’s definitely going to effect your tempo. Perhaps it’s that element that’s effecting the tempo since the window shrinks exponentially after missing the sweet spot? |
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Post by Blade on Oct 26, 2022 19:35:55 GMT -5
Here's my question. Ignoring the zones and only taking into account the spot on the tempo arc, were similar feeling swings registering in the same spot of that arc? I'm guessing answer is probably a no considering where you said you thought you slowed it but actually was a fast. This is what I don't understand from this tempo. My assumption is that irrelevant of difficulty, the same tempo swing whether it's perfect, fast, slow or whatever, should register in the same spot on that arc. So if you get a fast that registers left side of perfect on say beginner (I don't know the zones, just exampling), that same swing should be in the same spot and be a middle grey fast on say Pro, and left edge grey fast on Master and a black fast on Legend. Is this what you (and others) are feeling or do we believe that the tempo is adjusted on your difficulty you select as well? If so, that's just so wrong! On pro, my results were typically very close to what I was feeling. On legend, I was all over the arc and didn't understand why. Many times I thought I had a good tempo and it was in the black (and sometimes deep into the black). I wrote a script for 2K21 to swing perfectly using the "mouse" (the script was telling the cursor what to do - it was to test club distances in different conditions - TGC would pick up immediately I was cheating if I used it during an event) and it was shocking to me what a tiny difference in timing made a big difference in the tempo (talking less than a tenth of a second could make a pretty big difference). I am not saying the game is rigged or screwed up. Since I am certain my 56 thumbs have trouble tracking differences of 0.1 seconds, I just need to build up the muscle memory where each tempo is virtually identical.
I agree with you, I would have thought the same tempo should lead to the same result, but it wasn't working that way for me. Obviously the grey zone is much smaller, so black fast/slow is much easier to do and seems to be penalized heavily, but I was literally experiencing what seemed like more variability to my timing. The computer geek side of me is saying that isn't likely happening, but it is what it felt like.
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Post by lukesinclair on Oct 27, 2022 1:48:53 GMT -5
Having played in the Platinum and Elite tournaments, I must say I'm firmly in the Legendary camp, especially for the Pro tours. It feels like the sort of challenge that TGC Tours used to be back in the day. The sort of challenge that kept me coming back, practising and trying to improve my game every week.
Its all very well saying it doesn't matter as people will shoot crazy low scores whatever.... It was the personal struggle that was enticing, to keep the ball in the fairway and where I had to really think about every shot. In 2K21 on Pro, that challenge was gone. Nearly every fairway and green was hit automatically and it was just who could do that best. A lot of the fun (for me anyway) was sucked out of the game by the simplicity.
Bring on the legendary challenge.
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Post by peskypeanut on Oct 27, 2022 3:17:20 GMT -5
Having played in the Platinum and Elite tournaments, I must say I'm firmly in the Legendary camp, especially for the Pro tours. It feels like the sort of challenge that TGC Tours used to be back in the day. The sort of challenge that kept me coming back, practising and trying to improve my game every week. Its all very well saying it doesn't matter as people will shoot crazy low scores whatever.... It was the personal struggle that was enticing, to keep the ball in the fairway and where I had to really think about every shot. In 2K21 on Pro, that challenge was gone. Nearly every fairway and green was hit automatically and it was just who could do that best. A lot of the fun (for me anyway) was sucked out of the game by the simplicity. Bring on the legendary challenge. I played the legendary event on plat. I agree with you. Was a lot of fun. It really brings course management in to play. I avoided the risk reward shots that I would usually go for as the risk outweighed the reward. Much more strategy involved. |
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Post by zooby97 on Oct 27, 2022 4:19:22 GMT -5
I'm not really in disagreement that the higher tours should be on Legend, just the characterization of the bulk of the players here. I’d just have Plat on Legend. Heck the top Plat players are already destroying courses with Legend difficulty. Elite, Kinetic and CC on Master Beer on Pro You always have to think of Doyley and the amount of work with different difficulties. All at master is ideal for the adm but I think keeping Plat on Legends is feasible. I think CCA- Elite are basically the same skill level of players , then add in the missed putts, bad rounds and it slots in you proper tier of those 3 tiers. But players in Plat, especially the ones who constantly make cuts are the freaks of the game. The rest of CC is should also be Master as you would be properly slotted into a tier. I’m not sure how the XBoxers are currently playing in master difficulty, hopefully better than the old game on master. |
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Post by zooby97 on Oct 27, 2022 4:22:53 GMT -5
Having played in the Platinum and Elite tournaments, I must say I'm firmly in the Legendary camp, especially for the Pro tours. It feels like the sort of challenge that TGC Tours used to be back in the day. The sort of challenge that kept me coming back, practising and trying to improve my game every week. Its all very well saying it doesn't matter as people will shoot crazy low scores whatever.... It was the personal struggle that was enticing, to keep the ball in the fairway and where I had to really think about every shot. In 2K21 on Pro, that challenge was gone. Nearly every fairway and green was hit automatically and it was just who could do that best. A lot of the fun (for me anyway) was sucked out of the game by the simplicity. Bring on the legendary challenge. I played the legendary event on plat. I agree with you. Was a lot of fun. It really brings course management in to play. I avoided the risk reward shots that I would usually go for as the risk outweighed the reward. Much more strategy involved. Hopefully you are streaming. I enjoy learning from the best of the Plat players. |
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Post by sybawoods on Oct 27, 2022 7:46:15 GMT -5
If "Legend" swing difficulty is introduced at Pro level, then it may be a good idea for CC-A, at least, to also be "Legend" so that there's a bridge? Also doubles as some kind of Q-school for the next level.
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