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Post by axelvonfersen on Oct 26, 2022 1:36:03 GMT -5
You pick one or the other, if you want to change tours you opt out and requalify. Pro Tours and CC tours have a specific number of players on it per tier. How do you adjust if one or the other gets a lot more players wanting to qualify than the other and vice versa? Pretty sure Doyley et al. can work around that  |
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Post by Cecil Harvey on Oct 26, 2022 2:03:08 GMT -5
Pro Tours and CC tours have a specific number of players on it per tier. How do you adjust if one or the other gets a lot more players wanting to qualify than the other and vice versa? Pretty sure Doyley et al. can work around that Yours is a hypothetical, and not based in TGCTours reality. I believe that a large amount, if not all of the ranked tours from Platinum to the lowest CC tours will be Master swing. Doyley's statement earlier today tells me that the large amount, if not all of the tours, will be Master swing. It is on you to give the counter-argument, if you are serious, to how two wholly separate tours will work when we have never seen that here. It really doesn't make sense given the history here. There should never be a wall that people hit to progress upwards that involves re-qualifying. It should be a direct process, IMO. |
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Post by bubbsboy100. on Oct 26, 2022 3:02:47 GMT -5
Any news on balls yet ?
Couple societies I'm in have had a trial allowing any ball just in case , but I've only used default.
Honestly cant see tours being able to lock default in but live in hope.
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Post by axelvonfersen on Oct 26, 2022 3:14:53 GMT -5
Pretty sure Doyley et al. can work around that Yours is a hypothetical, and not based in TGCTours reality. I believe that a large amount, if not all of the ranked tours from Platinum to the lowest CC tours will be Master swing. Doyley's statement earlier today tells me that the large amount, if not all of the tours, will be Master swing. It is on you to give the counter-argument, if you are serious, to how two wholly separate tours will work when we have never seen that here. It really doesn't make sense given the history here. There should never be a wall that people hit to progress upwards that involves re-qualifying. It should be a direct process, IMO. I have absolutely zero insight and knowledge in how difficult it is to code changes into the site. Thus, I can't suggest such things. But since everyone and his uncle his giving ideas and thoughts and feedback, I pitched in with how I would've liked to have seen it set up, especially since there's so many guys in here saying that Master swing is easier than last year's pro swing, and the other half saying that Master is perfect. I also doubt that the majority of CC players even care about moving to the pro tiers at all at any point. It's a pastime after all. |
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Post by littlewing8887 on Oct 26, 2022 6:40:20 GMT -5
I'm a good not great player, never made platinum, probably never will. I really liked legend swing. I think with all the skills and fittings, master is going to be too easy which to me is boring. I'd like the legend option somewhere.
Personally, I find a tougher swing with easier conditions more enjoyably than an easier swing with tougher conditions.
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Post by CoinHen77 on Oct 26, 2022 7:42:08 GMT -5
That's an interesting way to put it. My assumption is that (outside of a few folks), players here want to compete AND have fun - with zero illusions of winning every week. For a decent number of people, playing on Legend difficulty won't be fun. It's a completely different game on that swing setting, and especially so for XBox-ers. My guess is there's a reason that Plat isn't just set up with True Sim settings, and that's because a lot of people (outside of a number of us masochists) just don't enjoy it. I suspect that's the same for a lot of people on Legend setting. Regardless, I trust Doyley & Co. - I'm excited to see where everything ends up. I totally agree with what you’re saying but I think there has to be a happy medium between competitive and fun. The scores on Master swing in the Elite and Kinetic test societies, 2 weeks into the game, do not look fun to me. Its back to the “boat race” of who can get to -60 first. This is just 2 weeks in! Imagine what those scores will look like when people have fully fitted clubs and boosts? Legend is definitely a harder swing but there are ways to adjust conditions to satisfy all the pro tours. Just look at the legend test event this week: First two rounds were fast greens with the second having super high winds and I shot +2 and +5. It was frustrating but a challenge that I’ll only get better at as I play more in those conditions. Second two rounds were 120 greens and medium to low winds and i shot -1 and -2. (PS5, swing stick, performance setting) This is all to say there are ways to make legend swing not as punishing for the kinetic and elite tours and ease people into it just how there are specific “CC courses and conditions” that allow the lower tours to play not as hard. It just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me to purposely shy away from a better swing difficulty just so people can feel good about shooting -10 every round. |
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Post by williamwes626 on Oct 26, 2022 7:53:58 GMT -5
The promotion/demotion thing is connected to whether or not TGC has the same difficulty for everyone. When someone got promoted, they didn't like the change in difficulty. We're discussing if we're going with one difficulty for everyone or not. When people get promoted from the KF tour in real life, I bet most of them don't like running with the PGA folks. Getting promoted should come with some challenges. I shot a -2 on CC course R1 (I was CC-K). I really enjoyed the round, unlike when I was playing in 2K21. Please leave at least the lower CC tiers in the Pro setting. Have you ever seen a PGA Tour player say that? Any athlete, any sport ever? Are they nervous and scared, yeah- but proud to get the promotion. |
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Post by axelvonfersen on Oct 26, 2022 8:00:31 GMT -5
When people get promoted from the KF tour in real life, I bet most of them don't like running with the PGA folks. Getting promoted should come with some challenges. I shot a -2 on CC course R1 (I was CC-K). I really enjoyed the round, unlike when I was playing in 2K21. Please leave at least the lower CC tiers in the Pro setting. Have you ever seen a PGA Tour player say that? Any athlete, any sport ever? Are they nervous and scared, yeah- but proud to get the promotion. We're not professional athletes. |
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Post by williamwes626 on Oct 26, 2022 8:10:16 GMT -5
Have you ever seen a PGA Tour player say that? Any athlete, any sport ever? Are they nervous and scared, yeah- but proud to get the promotion. We're not professional athletes. I'm responding to him saying that about pro athletes. As for us, I think if we sign up for a competitive tour like TGC, then TGC will expect us to abide by their rules for competition. If they feel the rules of competition should involve promotions then we should follow how their system works and it's worked for years. It's their society, their website we're typing on, they provide so much, from stats, to spaces for highlights, new courses every week, exhibitions, awards, designer tutorials, ears to hear us. TGC gives us so much so if they want a competitive league where they promote and demote, there shouldn't be any problem. I can't believe a promotion is a problem at all. |
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Post by littlewing8887 on Oct 26, 2022 8:13:39 GMT -5
I hope a decision isn't made to keep one swing or multiple based on how promotions work. That seems really minor to me, someone getting promoted and not liking the tougher swing. Minor in the sense of.. how much is it really going to happen? I liked when the tours were split in swing difficulty and I enjoyed the challenge when promoted from CC to pro. It was tougher, but if you don't enjoy a bit of a challenge, why are you here? So many societies out there.. I always thought of TGC as the top competetive society.
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Post by CoinHen77 on Oct 26, 2022 8:32:09 GMT -5
I liked when the tours were split in swing difficulty and I enjoyed the challenge when promoted from CC to pro. It was tougher, but if you don't enjoy a bit of a challenge, why are you here? 1,000x this! I remember starting off in CC-G when TGC2019 came out and how good it felt to work my way up. There was kind of a mystic around getting up to the pro tours (Korn Ferry, Euro and PGA at the time). Knowing you were good enough to play on the top tours and had sort of classed out of the lower swing difficulty. I personally feel like a lot of that mystic has been lost with all the tours on the same difficulty. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still fun no matter what and I love TGCTours but i liked that feeling of being forced to get better or struggle to stay up. |
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Post by Brenelan on Oct 26, 2022 8:39:35 GMT -5
That's an interesting way to put it. My assumption is that (outside of a few folks), players here want to compete AND have fun - with zero illusions of winning every week. For a decent number of people, playing on Legend difficulty won't be fun. It's a completely different game on that swing setting, and especially so for XBox-ers. My guess is there's a reason that Plat isn't just set up with True Sim settings, and that's because a lot of people (outside of a number of us masochists) just don't enjoy it. I suspect that's the same for a lot of people on Legend setting. Regardless, I trust Doyley & Co. - I'm excited to see where everything ends up. I totally agree with what you’re saying but I think there has to be a happy medium between competitive and fun. The scores on Master swing in the Elite and Kinetic test societies, 2 weeks into the game, do not look fun to me. Its back to the “boat race” of who can get to -60 first. This is just 2 weeks in! Imagine what those scores will look like when people have fully fitted clubs and boosts? Legend is definitely a harder swing but there are ways to adjust conditions to satisfy all the pro tours. Just look at the legend test event this week: First two rounds were fast greens with the second having super high winds and I shot +2 and +5. It was frustrating but a challenge that I’ll only get better at as I play more in those conditions. Second two rounds were 120 greens and medium to low winds and i shot -1 and -2. (PS5, swing stick, performance setting) This is all to say there are ways to make legend swing not as punishing for the kinetic and elite tours and ease people into it just how there are specific “CC courses and conditions” that allow the lower tours to play not as hard. It just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me to purposely shy away from a better swing difficulty just so people can feel good about shooting -10 every round. It makes sense when you realize that MOST people aren't shooting -10 every round on Legend setting. And I'd guess that many of those super low scores on Elite and Kinetic are Plat players - I know Loveskud was around -55 on the Elite side. Ultimately, the guys shooting in the 50 to 60 under range on Master setting will end up in Plat. But I'll bet you'll have guys struggling to break par in the CC division, and hating it. |
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jjbuzzotta
Amateur Golfer
Posts: 254
TGCT Name: Justin Buzzotta
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Post by jjbuzzotta on Oct 26, 2022 8:41:00 GMT -5
It seems there's a strong divide. Players who love TGCT for the competitive structure, and players who love TGCT for the social structure. The added elements of skills/powerups whatever you want to call it has shifted things. If I need to get 10+ birdies a round to compete, that's not golf, that's not fun for me, that's more "arcadey" than any of the skills or fittings that were added to this game. This is the reason why I lost interest in the tours earlier this year.
Legend is a GREAT option for those of us who just want to play competitively and play a virtual golf game with a similar strategy to how we play a real golf game. Taking calculated risks. Swapping a 3 wood instead of driver because you'd rather miss in rough than sand. Laying up short of a green because it's a backside pin and its protected by traps on both sides and I'd rather bump and run. Aiming way left on a water protected hole. Playing for a two putt to avoid a long miss. I mean... if you don't like any of that, you just don't like Golf.
That said, I understand the otehr side of people who enjoy playing this for the mindless simple entertainment. I just, personally, don't think it's fair to dilute the competitive side so you can compete without trying hard.
My hope is the Beer league can become a viable solution for those who want to play it more mindlessly or more socially. I'm not sure what the general consensus is for Beer League settings but I haven't seen a lot of people who really like the Pro swing setting all that much. So is there a world where Beer League becomes more of a "CC" model using Master Swing and the Pro Tours can be the competitive model using Legend swing? Each tour would have mutliple flights so that water can find it's level and players can compete against others of similar skills.
I also understand the fact that Xbox players are disadvantaged on Legend swing but let me offer this perspective - Legend adds a level of course management strategy that the other swing settings don't offer. I've played some terrible rounds but I've been able to think my way towards a decent score. If Legend makes it harder for everyone doesn't that level the playing field some? - Obviously not counting the top pro tour which will probably have no trouble with any setting, but as you get futher into the flights, there will be significant variability that allows for smart golfers to put up better scores than those who can swing fine, but take bad risks.
(Sorry I don't want to offend anyone, I just love Golf, Golf Sims, and thinking about Golf lol)
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Post by Brenelan on Oct 26, 2022 8:47:10 GMT -5
That feels simplistic- just because a player doesn't have fun playing on Legend doesn't mean they aren't competitive.
My guess is this tour is supposed to be both "fun" and "competitive". You're saying some players have to choose. I disagree. We'll see how Doyley and Co feel.
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Post by CoinHen77 on Oct 26, 2022 8:56:30 GMT -5
That feels simplistic- just because a player doesn't have fun playing on Legend doesn't mean they aren't competitive. My guess is this tour is supposed to be both "fun" and "competitive". You're saying some players have to choose. I disagree. We'll see how Doyley and Co feel. The issue we’re going to keep running into is that “fun” is subjective. To [mention]jjbuzzotta [/mention]‘s point, having to think your way around a course vs firing at every pin would be my definition of fun. Remember, this is coming from someone that just shot +4 on the plat test (which is still good for top 30 right now). It’s not like I’m blowing the doors off the game, but to me those top 3 tours should be the best of the best and have to be able to handle the hardest swing. That may not have been my opinion in the last game cause the swing was broken but this game seems to have worked it out. There are still 10 CC tours that can work off master or pro swings and be more fun, I just don’t know why we’re putting that “filter” on the pro tours. |
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