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Post by Craig / Hendomedes on Aug 29, 2022 10:12:31 GMT -5
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it's more important on the greens than off. And if I had to guess, there's a high % of CC players that use it. Not everyone wants this to be close as possible to an IRL experience. It's the reason we're playing a video game. Of course it is more important on the greens as when you set the marker it basically tells you how hard to hit your putt. It isn't that hard to work out the distance with a little practice (the game has been out 2 years) but using an aid to tell you that distance, how are you going to get good at putting? Also mouse users can't use the aid so bit unfair there I think. Also I am sure it would be locked off on TGCTours if they had the option to. TGC 2019 didn't have this aid so why do people think it's needed in this game. Massive agree. Realistically with the haptik on you might as well be playing with the power metre on; they both tell you when to swing and take a massive massive amount of feel out of the game. Honestly I think that's been the real killer for crossplatform scoring in this version. The haptik aid. It reduces the game entirely to who can hit their tempo more often and nothing else. Whereas with that off and the marker off there are a lot more parts of your game that are tested. But, all this is totally irrelevant if no-one wants to play that way. So I totally sympathise with TGC who are trying to juggle presenting a tour with a semblance of a challenge that still attracts enough players to keep it viable and has meaningful crossplatform scoring. It's certainly not easy and more and more I think it's impossible to meet all those criteria at once because of the game design. |
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Post by Brenelan on Aug 29, 2022 10:23:10 GMT -5
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it's more important on the greens than off. And if I had to guess, there's a high % of CC players that use it. Not everyone wants this to be close as possible to an IRL experience. It's the reason we're playing a video game. Of course it is more important on the greens as when you set the marker it basically tells you how hard to hit your putt. It isn't that hard to work out the distance with a little practice (the game has been out 2 years) but using an aid to tell you that distance, how are you going to get good at putting? Also mouse users can't use the aid so bit unfair there I think. Also I am sure it would be locked off on TGCTours if they had the option to. TGC 2019 didn't have this aid so why do people think it's needed in this game. I am good at putting! I'm just not doing it the way you prefer. Frankly, I think we're back at the question of whether forcing people to play the way some of the high end guys would prefer is healthy for TGC itself. |
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Post by up mup kupen nup on Aug 29, 2022 10:25:35 GMT -5
Also mouse users can't use the aid so bit unfair there I think. Wait... so you're saying it's an issue with my mouse when it's vibrating all over the place? |
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Post by Brenelan on Aug 29, 2022 10:27:39 GMT -5
Of course it is more important on the greens as when you set the marker it basically tells you how hard to hit your putt. It isn't that hard to work out the distance with a little practice (the game has been out 2 years) but using an aid to tell you that distance, how are you going to get good at putting? Also mouse users can't use the aid so bit unfair there I think. Also I am sure it would be locked off on TGCTours if they had the option to. TGC 2019 didn't have this aid so why do people think it's needed in this game. Massive agree. Realistically with the haptik on you might as well be playing with the power metre on; they both tell you when to swing and take a massive massive amount of feel out of the game. Honestly I think that's been the real killer for crossplatform scoring in this version. The haptik aid. It reduces the game entirely to who can hit their tempo more often and nothing else. Whereas with that off and the marker off there are a lot more parts of your game that are tested. But, all this is totally irrelevant if no-one wants to play that way. So I totally sympathise with TGC who are trying to juggle presenting a tour with a semblance of a challenge that still attracts enough players to keep it viable and has meaningful crossplatform scoring. It's certainly not easy and more and more I think it's impossible to meet all those criteria at once because of the game design. I'm not a super complicated guy. If I had to guess, on this particular test course, I'd shoot between -30 and -20 over four rounds on Pro settings. I just went +10 over four rounds on Master. It's been talked about forever, but something in between would probably be perfect. Will that be feasible in the new game? No clue, but (at least to retain XBox players) TGC might have to make that difficult decision again. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2022 10:29:31 GMT -5
Of course it is more important on the greens as when you set the marker it basically tells you how hard to hit your putt. It isn't that hard to work out the distance with a little practice (the game has been out 2 years) but using an aid to tell you that distance, how are you going to get good at putting? Also mouse users can't use the aid so bit unfair there I think. Also I am sure it would be locked off on TGCTours if they had the option to. TGC 2019 didn't have this aid so why do people think it's needed in this game. I am good at putting! I'm just not doing it the way you prefer. Frankly, I think we're back at the question of whether forcing people to play the way some of the high end guys would prefer is healthy for TGC itself. It's not high end at all, I would even say the putting is no harder than TGC 2019 and nobody complained that lagging a putt was too difficult then. Correct me if I am wrong but don't CC play on less challenging courses and greens anyway. Yes taking grids off makes it more realistic and more challenging but this game hardly needs an aid that wasn't in the 3 previous games that tells you how hard to hit your putt. Like Craig said you might as well have swing meter on then. |
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Post by deacondrake on Aug 29, 2022 10:31:13 GMT -5
One round down at Even... one water ball and one very slow out of a bunker kept it from a decent score. Felt that par was a good score on most holes here. The greens were fair but the approach angles are pretty tight.
I miss Master swing... really makes you concentrate. There were a couple instances where I took like 10 straight red slow practice swings, but eventually found the right form. Felt for the most part grays treated me fair, and had a couple red fasts that worked out OK. Putting is a little quicker. Red slow is always the killer.
The biggest gameplay notes I had were that the lie penalties are much more dramatic, particularly with the fairway wood... like 20 degrees right if the ball is below your feet orange. Caught me by surprise twice, but not really penalized on the result. The other is there is much less forgiveness on the swing plane... if you are off-stripe, you are off target.
Due to the difficulty of the course, felt the 40% GIR was justified; most misses were on the fringe thereabouts. Proximity 30'+, which does eliminate most good birdie opps. Prefer this to feeling like anything but a 58 is a down round.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2022 10:31:59 GMT -5
Also mouse users can't use the aid so bit unfair there I think. Wait... so you're saying it's an issue with my mouse when it's vibrating all over the place? It works on mouse? That's surprising. |
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Post by Brenelan on Aug 29, 2022 10:40:07 GMT -5
I am good at putting! I'm just not doing it the way you prefer. Frankly, I think we're back at the question of whether forcing people to play the way some of the high end guys would prefer is healthy for TGC itself. It's not high end at all, I would even say the putting is no harder than TGC 2019 and nobody complained that lagging a putt was too difficult then. Correct me if I am wrong but don't CC play on less challenging courses and greens anyway. Yes taking grids off makes it more realistic and more challenging but this game hardly needs an aid that wasn't in the 3 previous games that tells you how hard to hit your putt. Like Craig said you might as well have swing meter on then. This has been discussed before, but I wonder if having more restrictions as you progress from CC through the Pro divisions is the way to go (if that's possible)? But I don't think you're really hearing me - the way you want me to play the game is a way I don't find enjoyable. Maybe I'll feel differently when I move from XBox to PC and the new game. But for right now, that's where I am. |
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Post by up mup kupen nup on Aug 29, 2022 10:40:32 GMT -5
Wait... so you're saying it's an issue with my mouse when it's vibrating all over the place? It works on mouse? That's surprising. I was kidding. Apologies. Imagine a mouse almost jumping on the table due to vibration feedback 😃 |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2022 10:43:14 GMT -5
It works on mouse? That's surprising. I was kidding. Apologies. Imagine a mouse almost jumping on the table due to vibration feedback 😃 lol you had me for am minute 😂 |
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Post by sid snott on Aug 29, 2022 10:45:29 GMT -5
It works on mouse? That's surprising. I was kidding. Apologies. Imagine a mouse almost jumping on the table due to vibration feedback 😃 Maybe it thinks its a rabbit  |
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Post by Craig / Hendomedes on Aug 29, 2022 10:50:20 GMT -5
Massive agree. Realistically with the haptik on you might as well be playing with the power metre on; they both tell you when to swing and take a massive massive amount of feel out of the game. Honestly I think that's been the real killer for crossplatform scoring in this version. The haptik aid. It reduces the game entirely to who can hit their tempo more often and nothing else. Whereas with that off and the marker off there are a lot more parts of your game that are tested. But, all this is totally irrelevant if no-one wants to play that way. So I totally sympathise with TGC who are trying to juggle presenting a tour with a semblance of a challenge that still attracts enough players to keep it viable and has meaningful crossplatform scoring. It's certainly not easy and more and more I think it's impossible to meet all those criteria at once because of the game design. I'm not a super complicated guy. If I had to guess, on this particular test course, I'd shoot between -30 and -20 over four rounds on Pro settings. I just went +10 over four rounds on Master. It's been talked about forever, but something in between would probably be perfect. Will that be feasible in the new game? No clue, but (at least to retain XBox players) TGC might have to make that difficult decision again. I get you mate and honestly the last thing I want to do is come across really elitist and say people should play this way or that way. Just that I have been saying to a few guys for a long time now that if everyone played without the haptik it would help the disparity massively. Purely because like I say there's no skill (for want of a better word) in judging partials or lag putts when the game quite literally buzzes your hand telling you to do it. So the only means of differentiation is who can hit more perfects and that's where we get totally shafted on Xbox. Honestly I can't fathom why the power metre isn't set to open for people who might prefer a visual prompt rather than the vibration. To me it's the exact same aid presented differently. If you removed that aid (I'm talking totally hypothetically here) you have way more aspects of the game you can be good or bad at: judging partials on full swings, pitches and splashes, lag putting, and all of that in competitive rounds with a bit of pressure (lol but you get me) on. It's the hill I'll die on that it would bring the scores closer together across consoles and pc if we could do it. More so than dropping the swing to pro. Hell we even have some data from Ultra Sim Tour to sort of show it works. And again, I'm really not trying to be all high and mighty and 'look at these settings I play on', I think it would bring crossplatform scoring much closer together right the way down the divisions as well taking away the emphasis on calculating and playing to marker that seems necessary at the top as it stands. But look as I say, if there's no desire there's no desire, and if there's no desire it would be the totally wrong move. And, most importantly, as it is you can't even lock those settings in the game so it's purely hypothetical. Would be interesting to know if this was brought up with the Devs at the pre release event though. I'll be here for the next version either way  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2022 10:52:02 GMT -5
It's not high end at all, I would even say the putting is no harder than TGC 2019 and nobody complained that lagging a putt was too difficult then. Correct me if I am wrong but don't CC play on less challenging courses and greens anyway. Yes taking grids off makes it more realistic and more challenging but this game hardly needs an aid that wasn't in the 3 previous games that tells you how hard to hit your putt. Like Craig said you might as well have swing meter on then. This has been discussed before, but I wonder if having more restrictions as you progress from CC through the Pro divisions is the way to go (if that's possible)? But I don't think you're really hearing me - the way you want me to play the game is a way I don't find enjoyable. Maybe I'll feel differently when I move from XBox to PC and the new game. But for right now, that's where I am. I think the main problem is that it is possible to do it (nothing to do about how I want you to play). There is now the problem that partial chips will be a major thing. With a vibration feedback it will again come down to shot set up more than shot execution and dare I say it takes all the skill and feel out of the execution.. There was a time when TST changed from marker on to marker only to stop sweeping of greens for elevation info. It was all mob and pitchforks at the time, but people got on with it and realised it was much better that way in the end. |
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Post by twofor22 on Aug 29, 2022 16:14:06 GMT -5
Not so much not happy, just not used to getting such wildly different tempos from "swings" that all feel pretty much the same. I did get better at it as the round went on however, and I enjoyed the challenge of it when it was used for the tours. I felt it was too easy to hit perfect on pro, but at least I could feel when I missed it. When I hit slices or hooks in real golf, most times I can feel that I've stopped rotating and thrown my hands at it or turned it over too much, or lost balance or whatever, but I can rarely feel a difference between a grey fast and a grey slow in this game, that often give similar results. If I miss red I can feel it though. Isn't that how it should be, as the grey tempo and white boxes are very small (on long irons and woods especially)on master there is a fine line between a great or good shot or average shot. It is small timing difference we have with a quick push of the stick.Tbh with shot feedback off you worry less about whites, greys, reds whatever and just worry about your ball flight for how well you have struck the ball. I couldn't tell you if I hit a grey or perfect but I know when I got a great or good shot or average shot. So much more immersive and if possible to switch off for society play on 2K 23 TST should definitely switch shot feedback off. Way more fun. I think you should be able to feel a difference since a tempo miss is basically a mishit, otherwise it's just a lottery where the ball goes, and that's not all that fun. Perhaps missing perfect right on the edge of it shouldn't send the ball as far off line as it does. Sometimes I hit little baby fades or draws unintentionally IRL but they usually still land on the green, and the greens we play are a fair bit smaller than they usually are in the game. If my swing tempo is out, it normally results in either fat shots or blading it, rather than a clean strike but going 30 metres off line. |
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Post by greyosprey on Aug 29, 2022 19:21:26 GMT -5
Rd 2 green grids OFF
Follow/scout cam used
(+7) course set-up/conditions left a lot to be desired.
I missed 2-3 swing results....
VRF 0 / RF 6 / grey fast 1 / Perfect 25 / grey slow 2 / RS 8 / VRS 3
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