Rad Ad
Caddy
Posts: 51 
Tour: Kinetic
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Post by Rad Ad on May 27, 2021 19:25:30 GMT -5
I've logged over 400 hours on this game and I don't think it's correct to call the old red fast an exploit. It was a very narrow band of red fast that actually produced a good result and it wasn't any easier to hit than perfect is since the change. I've posted some of my best rounds and been promoted to a pro tour since they removed this apparent 'exploit'. All they really did was move the goalposts. Back then, I targeted perfect-to-red-fast. Now, I target grey slow to grey fast. Same crap, different pile. But now with the constant ongoing tinkering we've seen for different shot types, I'm reaching a tipping point with the amount of retraining I'm forced to do every week or two just to make cuts. Red fast was not the reason that people were shooting -60 on tour. I haven't looked too deep into the controller calibration controversy but if I understand correctly some PS players are able to calibrate to remove red tempo from the spectrum of possible outcomes. If true that people are configuring their input device to limit their mistakes, then that's obviously a clear example of cheating and a big problem for cross-platform play. I disagree with your opinion of the red fast affecting scores....You could have sleepwalked every drive and hardly missed fairways which made the approach shots much easier as the lies were obviously better. I only used the red fast on drives as it was so easy to hit. Now? I’m struggling with tempo on drives. My fairway % is much less now snd my approach shots are now being affected more with the fairway misses. I treat this game now as a beta and just trying to get used to it for the new game. I’ll play both EA and 2K when released and then see where the chips fall. I’ll look for whoever has The TGC Tours as the main game I’ll play. I’m sure EA will have competitive leagues like TGC. The opinion I've expressed is solely based on my own experiences with the game. You can check out the plot of my scores if you don't believe me. www.tgctours.com/Player/Overview/57023I had an off week this week but I've been making cuts every week and have shot my best rounds since red fast was nerfed. Driving did have a greater margin of error for sure, but on approach and pitch shots I honestly find no difference in difficulty with the new target. On some of the longer holes, I find that I'm playing par 5's more traditionally like 3-shot holes and am still scoring because I can pretty consistently hit the perfects or greys. I realize that some people are having a more difficult time since the changes on their input devices and those opinions are just as valid as mine. The bigger question is why they'd suddenly start tinkering so much with a highly successful game with a vibrant competitive online community. The numbers show that they are losing people in droves at least in part as a result of these substantial changes to gameplay. As someone with a background in software development, I'm left scratching my head as to why they'd mess with a good thing this late in the product lifecycle just to appease a vocal minority. There are obviously bigger problems in the world right now, but I like to leave detailed feedback like this because ultimately I think it helps software teams get better. I hope they use this as a lesson going forward and take a little more care with how they impact their customers. |
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Post by mrohde4 on May 28, 2021 7:30:55 GMT -5
I disagree with your opinion of the red fast affecting scores....You could have sleepwalked every drive and hardly missed fairways which made the approach shots much easier as the lies were obviously better. I only used the red fast on drives as it was so easy to hit. Now? I’m struggling with tempo on drives. My fairway % is much less now snd my approach shots are now being affected more with the fairway misses. I treat this game now as a beta and just trying to get used to it for the new game. I’ll play both EA and 2K when released and then see where the chips fall. I’ll look for whoever has The TGC Tours as the main game I’ll play. I’m sure EA will have competitive leagues like TGC. The opinion I've expressed is solely based on my own experiences with the game. You can check out the plot of my scores if you don't believe me. www.tgctours.com/Player/Overview/57023I had an off week this week but I've been making cuts every week and have shot my best rounds since red fast was nerfed. Driving did have a greater margin of error for sure, but on approach and pitch shots I honestly find no difference in difficulty with the new target. On some of the longer holes, I find that I'm playing par 5's more traditionally like 3-shot holes and am still scoring because I can pretty consistently hit the perfects or greys. I realize that some people are having a more difficult time since the changes on their input devices and those opinions are just as valid as mine. The bigger question is why they'd suddenly start tinkering so much with a highly successful game with a vibrant competitive online community. The numbers show that they are losing people in droves at least in part as a result of these substantial changes to gameplay. As someone with a background in software development, I'm left scratching my head as to why they'd mess with a good thing this late in the product lifecycle just to appease a vocal minority. There are obviously bigger problems in the world right now, but I like to leave detailed feedback like this because ultimately I think it helps software teams get better. I hope they use this as a lesson going forward and take a little more care with how they impact their customers. Other than observational/anecdotal, do you have any hard numbers showing that players are dropping in droves since the patch? An argument could be made that many more droves had already left. Prior to the patch, this game (and TGCT) was as stale as I remember in five years. It wasn't fun, there were numerous flaws, and this TGCT red fasting community represents a very small percentage of overall users. The Red Fast nerf was a clear message that the game might've functioned as designed, but it certainly wasn't being played as intended. As others have said and I tend to agree, the tweaks are probably in preparation for the next game, which is a positive in my book. HB already got everyone's money (except for the Season Pass I guess?), and they just announced Tiger's involvement. Their analysts probably realize that most 2K21 customers are going to buy a similar game with TIGER WOODS next year, so let's figure out how to keep them engaged by designing a better game. At least that's my hope. Maybe this year's Master becomes next year's Legend, with a middle difficulty level that represents the current middle ground between Pro and Master. And everyone who says they'll wait until after the new game comes out or they won't buy it out of protest. Please. |
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Post by ddixjr509 on May 28, 2021 7:38:59 GMT -5
I've been okay with the recent changes from a competitive level playing field stand point. It's comforting to know we're all in the same boat and misery loves company.
I'll +1 the differences in Pro and Masters. My Casuals Society rounds are Pro- the white perfect area seems HUGE. I cant remember ever getting a Slow swing.
With Masters I'm finding myself with about 25% slow swings... but my issue now is that I can no longer feel the difference between Fast Perfect and Slow- they all feel the same to me. It definitely feels the programmers added a randomizer element to the swing. I rarely played the intentional red fast swing, so my game play hasn't changed much since the patch. But, this randomness will ultimately be the deal breaker for me.
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Post by bubbsboy100. on May 28, 2021 8:17:40 GMT -5
This randomness discussion takes me back to "VEM".....thought I was over that ;-) cseanny |
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Post by sroel908 on May 28, 2021 8:50:00 GMT -5
The opinion I've expressed is solely based on my own experiences with the game. You can check out the plot of my scores if you don't believe me. www.tgctours.com/Player/Overview/57023I had an off week this week but I've been making cuts every week and have shot my best rounds since red fast was nerfed. Driving did have a greater margin of error for sure, but on approach and pitch shots I honestly find no difference in difficulty with the new target. On some of the longer holes, I find that I'm playing par 5's more traditionally like 3-shot holes and am still scoring because I can pretty consistently hit the perfects or greys. I realize that some people are having a more difficult time since the changes on their input devices and those opinions are just as valid as mine. The bigger question is why they'd suddenly start tinkering so much with a highly successful game with a vibrant competitive online community. The numbers show that they are losing people in droves at least in part as a result of these substantial changes to gameplay. As someone with a background in software development, I'm left scratching my head as to why they'd mess with a good thing this late in the product lifecycle just to appease a vocal minority. There are obviously bigger problems in the world right now, but I like to leave detailed feedback like this because ultimately I think it helps software teams get better. I hope they use this as a lesson going forward and take a little more care with how they impact their customers. An argument could be made that many more droves had already left. Prior to the patch, this game (and TGCT) was as stale as I remember in five years. It wasn't fun, there were numerous flaws, and this TGCT red fasting community represents a very small percentage of overall users. The Red Fast nerf was a clear message that the game might've functioned as designed, but it certainly wasn't being played as intended. As others have said and I tend to agree, the tweaks are probably in preparation for the next game, which is a positive in my book. HB already got everyone's money (except for the Season Pass I guess?), and they just announced Tiger's involvement. Their analysts probably realize that most 2K21 customers are going to buy a similar game with TIGER WOODS next year, so let's figure out how to keep them engaged by designing a better game. At least that's my hope. Maybe this year's Master becomes next year's Legend, with a middle difficulty level that represents the current middle ground between Pro and Master. And everyone who says they'll wait until after the new game comes out or they won't buy it out of protest. Please. I looked at CC-K, where just 76 players took part in this week's event. Six weeks ago, the same flight had 141 players in that week's event. So that's a loss of about 50% of that flight in six weeks. The first swing update (red fast nerf) happened five weeks ago yesterday. The second update (red slow and splash shot changes) happened two weeks ago yesterday. The last three weeks in CC-K, this is how the player count looked: Three weeks ago - 115 Two weeks ago - 104 Last week - 88 To me, that seems more than just the natural drop in players over time. Losing 50% of one flight in just over a month is a lot. And losing 25% in just three weeks seems out of the norm, too. For comparison sake, I looked at the six week stretch just prior to the week where CC-K had 141 total players. Participation was: 122 131 123 127 135 113 So there wasn't any kind of drop seen like the one that's happening now, at least not the consistent, week-over-week losses that are occurring. |
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Rad Ad
Caddy
Posts: 51
Tour: Kinetic
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Post by Rad Ad on May 28, 2021 9:05:12 GMT -5
I've been okay with the recent changes from a competitive level playing field stand point. It's comforting to know we're all in the same boat and misery loves company. I'll +1 the differences in Pro and Masters. My Casuals Society rounds are Pro- the white perfect area seems HUGE. I cant remember ever getting a Slow swing. With Masters I'm finding myself with about 25% slow swings... but my issue now is that I can no longer feel the difference between Fast Perfect and Slow- they all feel the same to me. It definitely feels the programmers added a randomizer element to the swing. I rarely played the intentional red fast swing, so my game play hasn't changed much since the patch. But, this randomness will ultimately be the deal breaker for me. I was wondering if an element of randomness has been added as well. I'm leaning towards not. I recently struggled through some society rounds where I was hitting a lot of red slows, but then later that day I recalibrated, slowed down my backswing a bit, and was seemingly able to correct it. All anecdotal evidence of course, but as of yesterday afternoon the game was playing true for me. |
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Rad Ad
Caddy
Posts: 51
Tour: Kinetic
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Post by Rad Ad on May 28, 2021 9:15:24 GMT -5
The opinion I've expressed is solely based on my own experiences with the game. You can check out the plot of my scores if you don't believe me. www.tgctours.com/Player/Overview/57023I had an off week this week but I've been making cuts every week and have shot my best rounds since red fast was nerfed. Driving did have a greater margin of error for sure, but on approach and pitch shots I honestly find no difference in difficulty with the new target. On some of the longer holes, I find that I'm playing par 5's more traditionally like 3-shot holes and am still scoring because I can pretty consistently hit the perfects or greys. I realize that some people are having a more difficult time since the changes on their input devices and those opinions are just as valid as mine. The bigger question is why they'd suddenly start tinkering so much with a highly successful game with a vibrant competitive online community. The numbers show that they are losing people in droves at least in part as a result of these substantial changes to gameplay. As someone with a background in software development, I'm left scratching my head as to why they'd mess with a good thing this late in the product lifecycle just to appease a vocal minority. There are obviously bigger problems in the world right now, but I like to leave detailed feedback like this because ultimately I think it helps software teams get better. I hope they use this as a lesson going forward and take a little more care with how they impact their customers. Other than observational/anecdotal, do you have any hard numbers showing that players are dropping in droves since the patch? An argument could be made that many more droves had already left. Prior to the patch, this game (and TGCT) was as stale as I remember in five years. It wasn't fun, there were numerous flaws, and this TGCT red fasting community represents a very small percentage of overall users. The Red Fast nerf was a clear message that the game might've functioned as designed, but it certainly wasn't being played as intended. As others have said and I tend to agree, the tweaks are probably in preparation for the next game, which is a positive in my book. HB already got everyone's money (except for the Season Pass I guess?), and they just announced Tiger's involvement. Their analysts probably realize that most 2K21 customers are going to buy a similar game with TIGER WOODS next year, so let's figure out how to keep them engaged by designing a better game. At least that's my hope. Maybe this year's Master becomes next year's Legend, with a middle difficulty level that represents the current middle ground between Pro and Master. And everyone who says they'll wait until after the new game comes out or they won't buy it out of protest. Please. I'm just referring to the data shared on here and some of my anecdotal personal experiences. But I've been involved in software stakeholder engagement for over a decade and I've built up a pretty good intuition for when a poor product decision has been made. One thing I will say is that you don't build momentum for the next iteration of your product by pissing off a significant number of your happy customers a few months before release. My recommendation would have been to keep master settings as-is (or possibly a much ligher nerfing of red fasts), and introduce a new difficulty level that includes the new settings. Perhaps they partner with TGC Tours to open up a new competition circuit on that setting. Create a forum for soliciting user feedback on these changes. I would have been intrigued and probably participated in trying out the new level. It would have made everyone happy. That's the prudent way to implement these kinds of things. Make a small batch of changes. Get user feedback. Adjust accordingly. |
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Post by Koop on May 28, 2021 9:35:00 GMT -5
I treat this game now as a beta and just trying to get used to it for the new game. I’ll play both EA and 2K when released and then see where the chips fall. I’ll look for whoever has The TGC Tours as the main game I’ll play. I’m sure EA will have competitive leagues like TGC. I am sorry, but there is no way in hell we should be beta testing this dumpster fire 9-10 months AFTER its release! That is just ludicrous! I understand that is how you are approaching this, but no one should have to do that. |
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Post by sroel908 on May 28, 2021 9:48:48 GMT -5
I treat this game now as a beta and just trying to get used to it for the new game. I’ll play both EA and 2K when released and then see where the chips fall. I’ll look for whoever has The TGC Tours as the main game I’ll play. I’m sure EA will have competitive leagues like TGC. I am sorry, but there is no way in hell we should be beta testing this dumpster fire 9-10 months AFTER its release! That is just ludicrous! I understand that is how you are approaching this, but no one should have to do that. Even worse, a game that has played one way for 9 months should not, all of a sudden, but turned into a beta test for the next game. That's a great way to send folks who enjoyed the pre-existing product to the door. If you're gonna do a beta, leave the old game alone and actually release a beta. MLB The Show does this...they don't take MLB The Show 20, retool the swing and pitching mechanics, and say, "Well, now it's a beta for MLB The Show 21!" They actually release a stand-alone beta and do stress testing, etc. Even though it was clear the stress testing for them this year didn't seem to work out too well, with all their server issues...but I digress. |
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Post by Giraffe72 on May 28, 2021 13:54:39 GMT -5
The opinion I've expressed is solely based on my own experiences with the game. You can check out the plot of my scores if you don't believe me. www.tgctours.com/Player/Overview/57023I had an off week this week but I've been making cuts every week and have shot my best rounds since red fast was nerfed. Driving did have a greater margin of error for sure, but on approach and pitch shots I honestly find no difference in difficulty with the new target. On some of the longer holes, I find that I'm playing par 5's more traditionally like 3-shot holes and am still scoring because I can pretty consistently hit the perfects or greys. I realize that some people are having a more difficult time since the changes on their input devices and those opinions are just as valid as mine. The bigger question is why they'd suddenly start tinkering so much with a highly successful game with a vibrant competitive online community. The numbers show that they are losing people in droves at least in part as a result of these substantial changes to gameplay. As someone with a background in software development, I'm left scratching my head as to why they'd mess with a good thing this late in the product lifecycle just to appease a vocal minority. There are obviously bigger problems in the world right now, but I like to leave detailed feedback like this because ultimately I think it helps software teams get better. I hope they use this as a lesson going forward and take a little more care with how they impact their customers. Other than observational/anecdotal, do you have any hard numbers showing that players are dropping in droves since the patch? An argument could be made that many more droves had already left. Prior to the patch, this game (and TGCT) was as stale as I remember in five years. It wasn't fun, there were numerous flaws, and this TGCT red fasting community represents a very small percentage of overall users. The Red Fast nerf was a clear message that the game might've functioned as designed, but it certainly wasn't being played as intended. As others have said and I tend to agree, the tweaks are probably in preparation for the next game, which is a positive in my book. HB already got everyone's money (except for the Season Pass I guess?), and they just announced Tiger's involvement. Their analysts probably realize that most 2K21 customers are going to buy a similar game with TIGER WOODS next year, so let's figure out how to keep them engaged by designing a better game. At least that's my hope. Maybe this year's Master becomes next year's Legend, with a middle difficulty level that represents the current middle ground between Pro and Master. And everyone who says they'll wait until after the new game comes out or they won't buy it out of protest. Please. Believe it or not I do have hard figures for that. Luckily I'm a bit of a geek and have kept a spreadsheet of tour numbers across the board since Season 2, as well as tracking my progress (or lack of) and scores. Anyway, before the first patch we were actually on the up in numbers across the tours and at that point were getting 2400/2500 a week. So no, droves hadn't left before all this happened. Last week we were down to around 1600. |
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2021 14:22:33 GMT -5
Though I don't play here I am curious about how difficult people are finding master swing. Tbh there are some really low scores all the way down the flights winning tournaments.
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Post by Demonondalinks on May 28, 2021 15:02:28 GMT -5
Though I don't play here I am curious about how difficult people are finding master swing. Tbh there are some really low scores all the way down the flights winning tournaments. Brutal on xbox1 |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2021 15:10:48 GMT -5
Though I don't play here I am curious about how difficult people are finding master swing. Tbh there are some really low scores all the way down the flights winning tournaments. Brutal on xbox1 Try Nintendo Switch  |
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Post by greyosprey on May 29, 2021 4:24:05 GMT -5
Hmmm. Maybe less people are playing because they get tired of crap like this?
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Post by bmoregolfpro on May 29, 2021 8:29:23 GMT -5
Hmmm. Maybe less people are playing because they get tired of crap like this? So because you hit it too hard, your swing plane was off, and you didn’t take 3 seconds to look and see what would happen if you missed the game is crap? Sorry not trying to be disrespectful but not sure what the issue is with this clip. |
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