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Post by fransslabak on May 27, 2021 13:20:37 GMT -5
Hi cseanny , Thanks for the information. Thanks also for enlightening so many of us on how polling points and calibrations work. I have in fact calibrated my swing - I have calibrated my swing to have a polling point as close to dead center of the white zone as possible. I've gone back to that after, a few weeks ago, trying other places, even the edges, after seeing some of your posts and videos. I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. If I'm honest, all of those other calibrations, including the edges, only made me enjoy the game less and gave me the feeling that the pixel swing was not the direct result of 'my best attempt at providing perfect input'. Consequently, I quickly returned to a calibration with one polling point in the white zone (on Masters). As indicated earlier, this calibration feels most comfortable for me. It feels I actually control the outcome - any swing that isn't perfect, I can feel that it was me, not the game. Any swing that is perfect, it actually feels like I hit perfect tempo. Maybe I'm wrong, but this central polling point also, in my mind, gives me the advantage that it is still in the white zone, even for woods or high irons, or splashes and pitches, when I lower/up loft and/or spin. I can still hit perfect and it feels like all I need to do is have perfect tempo with my joystick movement. But maybe this is just my mind playing tricks with me. If it is, don't tell me...  Anyway, all I'm saying is that with this set-up, to me at least, the game is fun to play and doesn't feel broken and I can get decent results. And yes, I'll readily admit that the latter helps. You are probably right about pro - I have no desire to play pro though; it feels arcady to me and that's not the type of game I'm after. And again, I'm not saying that everyone should now do what I do. Play the way you enjoy the game most. That's what I do. I was just trying to point out, in a polite way, that everyone going for what 'theoretically' might be the optimal calibration might not actually be the best option for everyone. Best wishes Frans |
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Post by cseanny on May 27, 2021 13:54:58 GMT -5
Well said fransslabakEveryone should play their style and above all, have fun. And yeah, PROs not for me either, but not cause it's Arcadey  , but purely based on difficulty level. Fantasy, or super tricked out courses with never ending slopes can be the most difficult thing in the game! MorbidX made some kick you in the nuts courses in PGA 2019 for sure lol. Also, any non-calibrated or calibrated set-ups at center, followed by grey will have the same rounding, and next subsequent input points. Good luck to you moving forward though. |
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Post by sroel908 on May 27, 2021 14:01:13 GMT -5
Well said fransslabak Everyone should play their style and above all, have fun. And yeah, PROs not for me either, but not cause it's Arcadey , but purely based on difficulty level. Fantasy, or super tricked out courses with never ending slopes can be the most difficult thing in the game! MorbidX made some kick you in the nuts courses in PGA 2019 for sure lol. Also, any non-calibrated or calibrated set-ups at center, followed by grey will have the same rounding, and next subsequent input points. Good luck to you moving forward though. This is why I get a little miffed when people simply say, "Just go play on Pro if you don't like the updated game on Master". There is a HUGE gap between the difficulty levels of Pro and Master, IMO - it feels like there's at least one difficulty level that should be between the two following these swing changes and the additional penalties added to mishits. |
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Rad Ad
Caddy
Posts: 51 
Tour: Kinetic
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Post by Rad Ad on May 27, 2021 15:13:35 GMT -5
Well said fransslabak Everyone should play their style and above all, have fun. And yeah, PROs not for me either, but not cause it's Arcadey , but purely based on difficulty level. Fantasy, or super tricked out courses with never ending slopes can be the most difficult thing in the game! MorbidX made some kick you in the nuts courses in PGA 2019 for sure lol. Also, any non-calibrated or calibrated set-ups at center, followed by grey will have the same rounding, and next subsequent input points. Good luck to you moving forward though. This is why I get a little miffed when people simply say, "Just go play on Pro if you don't like the updated game on Master". There is a HUGE gap between the difficulty levels of Pro and Master, IMO - it feels like there's at least one difficulty level that should be between the two following these swing changes and the additional penalties added to mishits. Yeah, it's kind of a tough sell to people who have been playing master clubs since TGC19 or earlier and enjoy competing on the tours but are suddenly incapable of shooting consistent rounds due to some arbitrary changes made eight months into the new game. I mean, I see both sides here and everyone's going to have different takes based on how much they play, their console and input device. There's no clear right or wrong answer here. I appreciate that HB's trying to make the game play 'truer', and I think some of the stuff they've done is fine. The original 'nerfing' of red fast I thought was easy to adjust to. They just moved the goalposts. But with that said I'm not loving some of the recent tinkering, especially to short game. As an avid golfer, I feel like it plays less true now than before. Others will disagree and that's fine. One thing I will miss the Friday nights playing online with some of my friends who are more casual players, as they've recently abandoned the game as a result of these changes. And that's the biggest problem here. Many of the hardcore TGC competitors like the changes because it makes the game more difficult, but at the same time it makes it less accessible to the much larger audience of more casual players who like playing in the lower rungs of the challenge circuit and are now forced to relearn how to play major parts of this game. These are the people they're risking losing by messing with things this much. It's just not fun to go out and fire a +12 because you duffed a half dozen balls in the sand. |
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Post by Giraffe72 on May 27, 2021 15:24:03 GMT -5
Well said fransslabak Everyone should play their style and above all, have fun. And yeah, PROs not for me either, but not cause it's Arcadey , but purely based on difficulty level. Fantasy, or super tricked out courses with never ending slopes can be the most difficult thing in the game! MorbidX made some kick you in the nuts courses in PGA 2019 for sure lol. Also, any non-calibrated or calibrated set-ups at center, followed by grey will have the same rounding, and next subsequent input points. Good luck to you moving forward though. This is why I get a little miffed when people simply say, "Just go play on Pro if you don't like the updated game on Master". There is a HUGE gap between the difficulty levels of Pro and Master, IMO - it feels like there's at least one difficulty level that should be between the two following these swing changes and the additional penalties added to mishits. I completely agree with this, the two levels are so far apart it's ridiculous. The only time I've played Pro is Divot Derby (so far) and all my bad swings are in the grey, I hit hardly any reds. There's a bunch of us really struggling with Masters (and not just on Xbox where we're pretty much ALL struggling) but Pro just seems too much of a step down. Right now neither are particularly enjoyable. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2021 15:34:19 GMT -5
This is why I get a little miffed when people simply say, "Just go play on Pro if you don't like the updated game on Master". There is a HUGE gap between the difficulty levels of Pro and Master, IMO - it feels like there's at least one difficulty level that should be between the two following these swing changes and the additional penalties added to mishits. Yeah, it's kind of a tough sell to people who have been playing master clubs since TGC19 or earlier and enjoy competing on the tours but are suddenly incapable of shooting consistent rounds due to some arbitrary changes made eight months into the new game. I mean, I see both sides here and everyone's going to have different takes based on how much they play, their console and input device. There's no clear right or wrong answer here. I appreciate that HB's trying to make the game play 'truer', and I think some of the stuff they've done is fine. The original 'nerfing' of red fast I thought was easy to adjust to. They just moved the goalposts. But with that said I'm not loving some of the recent tinkering, especially to short game. As an avid golfer, I feel like it plays less true now than before. Others will disagree and that's fine. One thing I will miss the Friday nights playing online with some of my friends who are more casual players, as they've recently abandoned the game as a result of these changes. And that's the biggest problem here. Many of the hardcore TGC competitors like the changes because it makes the game more difficult, but at the same time it makes it less accessible to the much larger audience of more casual players who like playing in the lower rungs of the challenge circuit and are now forced to relearn how to play major parts of this game. These are the people they're risking losing by messing with things this much. It's just not fun to go out and fire a +12 because you duffed a half dozen balls in the sand. The thing is it's easy to say they have nerfed it and made sand shots too hard. Stop for a minute think why am I hitting so many poor sand shots, it's muscle memory from before where tempo didn't even matter. We concentrate on drives to hit our tempo well so why not all golf shots . Sand shots when you hit partial shots it's easy to just hit too fast on the downswing, slower transition from backswing to downswing is key. Tbh it doesn't help that the game auto intents your shot at times, so you might have a crazy slow backswing which shifts your tempo slower. If you tend to hit your bunker shots very fast change club and back again to reset intent to 100% and hit the bunker shot with your normal tempo. Splash from bunkers is still forgiving,I have hit some bad tempo shots that still went close, you're only duffing if you hit very fast or slow. Hit the chipping green or even take a couple of practice swings before your bunker shot, hit a longer backswing if you're below the hole. |
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Post by zooby97 on May 27, 2021 18:11:28 GMT -5
As cheesy as it is if you just bin the splash and use the pitch instead (even from the bunker!) the penalties are not as harsh. My tempo is usually decent so I do still splash from bunkers with my SW to PW, but won't touch the LW splash. I'm playing around with the pitches right now as well and they are much easier for controlling short shots. But this goes to the heart of the issue here -- that in trying to fix supposed 'exploits' they've made things worse and the game plays less true than before. A 'splash' shot out of the bunker is one of the easier shots for a tour player to perform in golf and there's a much greater margin for error on that shot than a full swing off the fairway. In the game however, the penalty they've introduced for slow and fast splashes is just absurd and doesn't in any way play true to what I'd expect. So now I'm forced to play pitch shots out of bunkers because they broke the shot that is specific for the purpose of getting out of bunkers. Just a clusterf***. I have no issue with splashes from bunkers unless the bunkers are deep or on a serious upslope. |
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Post by sroel908 on May 27, 2021 18:30:27 GMT -5
I'm playing around with the pitches right now as well and they are much easier for controlling short shots. But this goes to the heart of the issue here -- that in trying to fix supposed 'exploits' they've made things worse and the game plays less true than before. A 'splash' shot out of the bunker is one of the easier shots for a tour player to perform in golf and there's a much greater margin for error on that shot than a full swing off the fairway. In the game however, the penalty they've introduced for slow and fast splashes is just absurd and doesn't in any way play true to what I'd expect. So now I'm forced to play pitch shots out of bunkers because they broke the shot that is specific for the purpose of getting out of bunkers. Just a clusterf***. I have no issue with splashes from bunkers unless the bunkers are deep or on a serious upslope. That's great. I mean that - I am glad you don't have issues. Because I do, and trust me, it's not fun to have them. Now why you don't have issues and I do? I'm not sure. I've tried the 100% intent method and I'm now trying to see if more forgiving wedges work. But even when I do these things or test out "fixes", I still get a wacky tempo and *poof*: 2 yards and a roll and the ball is back at my feet. I don't feel that my tempo is any different than when I get a non-bad tempo. But it still happens. |
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Post by zooby97 on May 27, 2021 18:33:52 GMT -5
So using an exploit to play a game is okay with you? I've logged over 400 hours on this game and I don't think it's correct to call the old red fast an exploit. It was a very narrow band of red fast that actually produced a good result and it wasn't any easier to hit than perfect is since the change. I've posted some of my best rounds and been promoted to a pro tour since they removed this apparent 'exploit'. All they really did was move the goalposts. Back then, I targeted perfect-to-red-fast. Now, I target grey slow to grey fast. Same crap, different pile. But now with the constant ongoing tinkering we've seen for different shot types, I'm reaching a tipping point with the amount of retraining I'm forced to do every week or two just to make cuts. Red fast was not the reason that people were shooting -60 on tour. I haven't looked too deep into the controller calibration controversy but if I understand correctly some PS players are able to calibrate to remove red tempo from the spectrum of possible outcomes. If true that people are configuring their input device to limit their mistakes, then that's obviously a clear example of cheating and a big problem for cross-platform play. I disagree with your opinion of the red fast affecting scores....You could have sleepwalked every drive and hardly missed fairways which made the approach shots much easier as the lies were obviously better. I only used the red fast on drives as it was so easy to hit. Now? I’m struggling with tempo on drives. My fairway % is much less now snd my approach shots are now being affected more with the fairway misses. I treat this game now as a beta and just trying to get used to it for the new game. I’ll play both EA and 2K when released and then see where the chips fall. I’ll look for whoever has The TGC Tours as the main game I’ll play. I’m sure EA will have competitive leagues like TGC. |
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Post by itsjustgary on May 27, 2021 18:34:15 GMT -5
CC-B only had 89 people even tried to play this week. TGC tours is hemorrhaging players because of these changes. I don't understand the business model from h b or EA that is alienate your player base so they quit playing
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Post by zooby97 on May 27, 2021 18:38:44 GMT -5
Yep. Not being on a "level" playing field for a game that is not supposed to be cross platform is fine. Annoying but understandable and fine. Not being able to hit all the spots along the tempo meter on XB? Not okay. The fast swing is messed up on ps5 as well why is it only Xbox users seem to think their alone? My kid has an Xbox and I got the game for it to see for myself. I didn’t notice anything different. |
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Post by sroel908 on May 27, 2021 18:43:28 GMT -5
CC-B only had 89 people even tried to play this week. TGC tours is hemorrhaging players because of these changes. I don't understand the business model from h b or EA that is alienate your player base so they quit playing 85 in CC-L. SEVENTY-SIX in both CC-K and CC-J! These are the folks that are feeling the pinch of these changes the most. The more casual, less "talented" players - I count myself in that group, as I'm in CC-I. The scores down here are ballooning. People who make cuts are shooting tourney rounds in the 80s - I saw an 88 somewhere in there. Someone who didn't make the CC-I cut shot a 110! That does not sound like fun to me! |
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Post by zooby97 on May 27, 2021 18:46:13 GMT -5
CC-B only had 89 people even tried to play this week. TGC tours is hemorrhaging players because of these changes. I don't understand the business model from h b or EA that is alienate your player base so they quit playing And if this was the way the game had started out of the gate do you think the TGC player base would have crumbled back in Oct too? I just feel 2K wanted to get the players used it for their new release. They can then make more changes as well as they are certainly collecting data from these 2 updates. |
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Post by sroel908 on May 27, 2021 18:54:25 GMT -5
CC-B only had 89 people even tried to play this week. TGC tours is hemorrhaging players because of these changes. I don't understand the business model from h b or EA that is alienate your player base so they quit playing And if this was the way the game had started out of the gate do you think the TGC player base would have crumbled back in Oct too? I just feel 2K wanted to get the players used it for their new release. They can then make more changes as well as they are certainly collecting data from these 2 updates. I'm sorry, but this makes no sense to me. Of course the TGCT numbers would not have fallen if the game released like this, or if the changes happened 6 months ago. The two main factors that are brining numbers down are: 1) the game has been out for 9 months, and people might have moved on to new games or new activities (I mean, it's almost summer now and it's nice out! Go out and golf for real!) 2) they dislike these changes are are done with the game The game was made to play one way for 3/4 of a year. Then, suddenly, it was changed. Some like it, some don't. A game that's been out that long, and that makes such drastic changes, will likely face a downturn in player counts. It's natural to lose players over time. But for TGCT to lose this many players in just a few weeks is a bit shocking, and is likely due to the recent updates. Like I mentioned before, CC-K has 76 players this week. They had 141 players in the tournament 6 weeks ago. That's about a 50% loss of players in just about a month! |
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Post by zooby97 on May 27, 2021 19:02:03 GMT -5
And if this was the way the game had started out of the gate do you think the TGC player base would have crumbled back in Oct too? I just feel 2K wanted to get the players used it for their new release. They can then make more changes as well as they are certainly collecting data from these 2 updates. I'm sorry, but this makes no sense to me. Of course the TGCT numbers would not have fallen if the game released like this, or if the changes happened 6 months ago. The two main factors that are brining numbers down are: 1) the game has been out for 9 months, and people might have moved on to new games or new activities (I mean, it's almost summer now and it's nice out! Go out and golf for real!) 2) they dislike these changes are are done with the game The game was made to play one way for 3/4 of a year. Then, suddenly, it was changed. Some like it, some don't. A game that's been out that long, and that makes such drastic changes, will likely face a downturn in player counts. It's natural to lose players over time. But for TGCT to lose this many players in just a few weeks is a bit shocking, and is likely due to the recent updates. Well it is obvious the updates forced people to quit or to skip weeks. Just think back on Sept/Oct the main talk was Pro difficulty vs Master difficulty. |
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, but purely based on difficulty level. Fantasy, or super tricked out courses with never ending slopes can be the most difficult thing in the game! MorbidX made some kick you in the nuts courses in PGA 2019 for sure lol. Also, any non-calibrated or calibrated set-ups at center, followed by grey will have the same rounding, and next subsequent input points.
