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Post by detfan1984 on May 27, 2021 7:36:27 GMT -5
Wrote this in the XB thread but I'll toss it here too in case someone from HB reads these things: "I just can't believe how wrong they've got this on XB. On TGCT you have the most dedicated players, with the majority freaking out about how bad the changes are. The average player not on TGCT logs in and is dumbfounded and immediately turns the game off now. I play in a society with a few friends that play on lower difficulties. We play 4-rounds weekly in team-based competition. Most of them are dreading their rounds now. Absolutely awful work by HB/2K. Managed to go from one of the most fun games I've played, to one of the worst. Incredible." Awful work from HB to launch a game that didn't work correctly from the start...... then to say it is working as "intended" then to nerf and then nerf again. Not sure HB really knows what is happening or what is going to happen when they make the changes. I have no proof of that of course, just my opinion. It is not TGCT fault that they have hooked their wagon to a lame horse. Losing total respect for HB and this game. :-( Which makes it their fault. |
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Post by detfan1984 on May 27, 2021 7:38:06 GMT -5
Totally get that, and I'm OK with that. BUT, in isolation just on XB, the game is broken after the changes. We can't hit all the spots on the tempo meter. We can only hit very limited spots. When I get up to swing my club, I can only hit* perfect, ~45 degrees into Red Slow, and ~45 degrees into Red Fast. All my other swings along that tempo arc are rounded into one of those 3 shots. It is not an enjoyable experience to have my shot either be dead perfect, or dead in the water, knowing that my dead in the water shots were likely rounded there because my swing was fast or slow by milliseconds. Sure, I can lower the difficulty, but even on Pro unless you're calibrated right you can't get all the shot outcomes. So what's left for me, playing with no tempo? Sorry, don't find that acceptable for a AAA game on a next-gen console. *the actual polling points on the tempo meter are anywhere from 5-7 points, but it doesn't matter than I can hit a more Red Fast or a more Red Slow (plus VF and VS), because I don't often and that doesn't help anything. Yep. Not being on a "level" playing field for a game that is not supposed to be cross platform is fine. Annoying but understandable and fine. Not being able to hit all the spots along the tempo meter on XB? Not okay. The fast swing is messed up on ps5 as well why is it only Xbox users seem to think their alone? |
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Rad Ad
Caddy
Posts: 51 
Tour: Kinetic
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Post by Rad Ad on May 27, 2021 8:55:38 GMT -5
I highly doubt that your swing tempo from shot to shot is in any way affected by HB Studio's server performance. That would be such a horrible architectural decision that it's probably not within the realm of possibility. Based on comments they made after the nerfing of red fast, it sounds very much like the game downloads some config data when it loads and then uses that local copy of config during your session. The reason I say that is because when the swing tempo thresholds were changed, they indicated that a restart of the game would take the new settings. With that said, I have noticed incremental changes to swing outcomes over the past few weeks and I'm convinced that they are tweaking these settings. Obviously the several iterations of changes to short game outcomes are the most glaring example but I've also noticed impacts to full swings when you get into the red fast and slow thresholds. After the original nerfing of red fast I put in the hours to get back up to speed and I was able to get enough promo marks to get up to Kinetic. But a few weeks later, with the constant tinkering I'm getting fed up and considering hanging up the virtual clubs for a while. Whether or not all of these changes make the game better or more realistic I think misses the point. The problem is that they've alienated a large portion of their user base to cater to a vocal minority that's going to keep playing regardless. It makes no sense to me as a product strategy. I know people who enjoy playing on Master going back to TGC19 that are so turned off by these recent changes that they're done with the game. Many of us enjoy competing through the tours but don't have dozens of hours a month to relearn major portions of swing mechanics just to make cuts. So using an exploit to play a game is okay with you? I've logged over 400 hours on this game and I don't think it's correct to call the old red fast an exploit. It was a very narrow band of red fast that actually produced a good result and it wasn't any easier to hit than perfect is since the change. I've posted some of my best rounds and been promoted to a pro tour since they removed this apparent 'exploit'. All they really did was move the goalposts. Back then, I targeted perfect-to-red-fast. Now, I target grey slow to grey fast. Same crap, different pile. But now with the constant ongoing tinkering we've seen for different shot types, I'm reaching a tipping point with the amount of retraining I'm forced to do every week or two just to make cuts. Red fast was not the reason that people were shooting -60 on tour. I haven't looked too deep into the controller calibration controversy but if I understand correctly some PS players are able to calibrate to remove red tempo from the spectrum of possible outcomes. If true that people are configuring their input device to limit their mistakes, then that's obviously a clear example of cheating and a big problem for cross-platform play. |
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Post by dansamp on May 27, 2021 9:03:17 GMT -5
The red fast provided for an opportunity to side-step the game's core mechanic, "swinging for perfect tempo", and produce a repeatable shot outcome with a larger degree of repeatability.
Unfortunately, they got rid of this, and now many users have figured out that there are much larger exploits available on PC via M+K and on PS4 wired to produce the "perfect tempo" outcome with even higher degrees of repeatability.
The game is broken. It is what it is. But we can still have fun with it.
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Post by sroel908 on May 27, 2021 9:14:11 GMT -5
The red fast provided for an opportunity to side-step the game's core mechanic, "swinging for perfect tempo", and produce a repeatable shot outcome with a larger degree of repeatability. Unfortunately, they got rid of this, and now many users have figured out that there are much larger exploits available on PC via M+K and on PS4 wired to produce the "perfect tempo" outcome with even higher degrees of repeatability. The game is broken. It is what it is. But we can still have fun with it. Honestly, with these swing changes, I have not really had fun playing this game in several weeks. It's just a slog to play now. I never know what tempo I will get, what swing outcome I'll receive, I can't even use the splash shot anymore - as to avoid the dreaded 2 yard duff. Everything is in the upside down now with my swing, and it's just not at all fun. Each shot, I pull the stick back and pray to the TGCT gods that I at least get constant tempo throughout the round. 9 out of 10 times, my prayers go unanswered... |
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Post by dansamp on May 27, 2021 9:18:33 GMT -5
The red fast provided for an opportunity to side-step the game's core mechanic, "swinging for perfect tempo", and produce a repeatable shot outcome with a larger degree of repeatability. Unfortunately, they got rid of this, and now many users have figured out that there are much larger exploits available on PC via M+K and on PS4 wired to produce the "perfect tempo" outcome with even higher degrees of repeatability. The game is broken. It is what it is. But we can still have fun with it. Honestly, with these swing changes, I have not really had fun playing this game in several weeks. It's just a slog to play now. I never know what tempo I will get, what swing outcome I'll receive, I can't even use the splash shot anymore - as to avoid the dreaded 2 yard duff. Everything is in the upside down now with my swing, and it's just not at all fun. Each shot, I pull the stick back and pray to the TGCT gods that I at least get constant tempo throughout the round. 9 out of 10 times, my prayers go unanswered... As cheesy as it is if you just bin the splash and use the pitch instead (even from the bunker!) the penalties are not as harsh. My tempo is usually decent so I do still splash from bunkers with my SW to PW, but won't touch the LW splash. |
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Rad Ad
Caddy
Posts: 51
Tour: Kinetic
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Post by Rad Ad on May 27, 2021 9:59:29 GMT -5
Honestly, with these swing changes, I have not really had fun playing this game in several weeks. It's just a slog to play now. I never know what tempo I will get, what swing outcome I'll receive, I can't even use the splash shot anymore - as to avoid the dreaded 2 yard duff. Everything is in the upside down now with my swing, and it's just not at all fun. Each shot, I pull the stick back and pray to the TGCT gods that I at least get constant tempo throughout the round. 9 out of 10 times, my prayers go unanswered... As cheesy as it is if you just bin the splash and use the pitch instead (even from the bunker!) the penalties are not as harsh. My tempo is usually decent so I do still splash from bunkers with my SW to PW, but won't touch the LW splash. I'm playing around with the pitches right now as well and they are much easier for controlling short shots. But this goes to the heart of the issue here -- that in trying to fix supposed 'exploits' they've made things worse and the game plays less true than before. A 'splash' shot out of the bunker is one of the easier shots for a tour player to perform in golf and there's a much greater margin for error on that shot than a full swing off the fairway. In the game however, the penalty they've introduced for slow and fast splashes is just absurd and doesn't in any way play true to what I'd expect. So now I'm forced to play pitch shots out of bunkers because they broke the shot that is specific for the purpose of getting out of bunkers. Just a clusterf***. |
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Post by jp44 on May 27, 2021 10:15:07 GMT -5
As cheesy as it is if you just bin the splash and use the pitch instead (even from the bunker!) the penalties are not as harsh. My tempo is usually decent so I do still splash from bunkers with my SW to PW, but won't touch the LW splash. I'm playing around with the pitches right now as well and they are much easier for controlling short shots. But this goes to the heart of the issue here -- that in trying to fix supposed 'exploits' they've made things worse and the game plays less true than before. A 'splash' shot out of the bunker is one of the easier shots for a tour player to perform in golf and there's a much greater margin for error on that shot than a full swing off the fairway. In the game however, the penalty they've introduced for slow and fast splashes is just absurd and doesn't in any way play true to what I'd expect. So now I'm forced to play pitch shots out of bunkers because they broke the shot that is specific for the purpose of getting out of bunkers. Just a clusterf***. DING DING DING. Nailed it. |
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Post by fransslabak on May 27, 2021 10:29:02 GMT -5
I know I'm not supposed to comment here because I'm a PS4 player and I don't hate the game... but I'll just share my thoughts/observations anyway.  So, as said, I play on PS4 and I play the same way I have always played; play for perfects. I only have one of those... or, as more tech savvy people will be able to explain, I only have one polling point in the white area. One more in grey fast and one more in grey slow. And I enjoy the game as it is right now... really. I manage to get perfects on shots that I feel I have executed perfectly - without and with tampering with the loft and spin. I manage to get out of bunkers with shots that I feel I have executed perfectly - without and with tampering with the loft and spin and with all wedges. Same for pitches. Same for drives and approaches. I stay away from flops - I'm just not good enough for those.  I understand the frustrations of our XBOX friends. I understand the frustrations about people looking for ways to not have to execute shots perfectly. But on PS4, if you don't go the edgy route and simply play the game, I would argue it is not broken - it's actually a lot of fun. That's my experience. Best wishes Frans |
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Post by sroel908 on May 27, 2021 10:33:08 GMT -5
I know I'm not supposed to comment here because I'm a PS4 player and I don't hate the game... but I'll just share my thoughts/observations anyway. So, as said, I play on PS4 and I play the same way I have always played; play for perfects. I only have one of those... or, as more tech savvy people will be able to explain, I only have one polling point in the white area. One more in grey fast and one more in grey slow. And I enjoy the game as it is right now... really. I manage to get perfects on shots that I feel I have executed perfectly - without and with tampering with the loft and spin. I manage to get out of bunkers with shots that I feel I have executed perfectly - without and with tampering with the loft and spin and with all wedges. Same for pitches. Same for drives and approaches. I stay away from flops - I'm just not good enough for those. I understand the frustrations of our XBOX friends. I understand the frustrations about people looking for ways to not have to execute shots perfectly. But on PS4, if you don't go the edgy route and simply play the game, I would argue it is not broken - it's actually a lot of fun. That's my experience. Best wishes Frans I play on PS4, and my experience is not the same. I don't get into any of that calibration stuff - in fact, I've never calibrated once in this game. Playing this game now a exercise in frustration for me. Perhaps I am just bad at it, post updates. OK, fine. But I didn't have any of the frustrations I am having now before the swing outcomes were changed. |
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Deleted
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Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2021 11:20:00 GMT -5
As cheesy as it is if you just bin the splash and use the pitch instead (even from the bunker!) the penalties are not as harsh. My tempo is usually decent so I do still splash from bunkers with my SW to PW, but won't touch the LW splash. I'm playing around with the pitches right now as well and they are much easier for controlling short shots. But this goes to the heart of the issue here -- that in trying to fix supposed 'exploits' they've made things worse and the game plays less true than before. A 'splash' shot out of the bunker is one of the easier shots for a tour player to perform in golf and there's a much greater margin for error on that shot than a full swing off the fairway. In the game however, the penalty they've introduced for slow and fast splashes is just absurd and doesn't in any way play true to what I'd expect. So now I'm forced to play pitch shots out of bunkers because they broke the shot that is specific for the purpose of getting out of bunkers. Just a clusterf***. You can actually hit red slow and fast splash shots from bunkers and get good results just not really off tempo shots. It is now how it should be. Tbh tempo on all short scrambling shots has gotten easier. My tempo on full pitch shot, partial full shots was rushed at times before. Now I hit an easy downswing and hit the tempo box most shots. Maybe the problem for some is that the bunker splash shot was just automatic and so easy before having to have a bit of timing is a bit of a jolt. If it is the slower backswing that is knocking your timing out change club and back again as this will reset intent and give you a full speed backswing. |
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Post by Demonondalinks on May 27, 2021 11:21:32 GMT -5
I know I'm not supposed to comment here because I'm a PS4 player and I don't hate the game... but I'll just share my thoughts/observations anyway. So, as said, I play on PS4 and I play the same way I have always played; play for perfects. I only have one of those... or, as more tech savvy people will be able to explain, I only have one polling point in the white area. One more in grey fast and one more in grey slow. And I enjoy the game as it is right now... really. I manage to get perfects on shots that I feel I have executed perfectly - without and with tampering with the loft and spin. I manage to get out of bunkers with shots that I feel I have executed perfectly - without and with tampering with the loft and spin and with all wedges. Same for pitches. Same for drives and approaches. I stay away from flops - I'm just not good enough for those. I understand the frustrations of our XBOX friends. I understand the frustrations about people looking for ways to not have to execute shots perfectly. But on PS4, if you don't go the edgy route and simply play the game, I would argue it is not broken - it's actually a lot of fun. That's my experience. Best wishes Frans I play on PS4, and my experience is not the same. I don't get into any of that calibration stuff - in fact, I've never calibrated once in this game. Playing this game now a exercise in frustration for me. Perhaps I am just bad at it, post updates. OK, fine. But I didn't have any of the frustrations I am having now before the swing outcomes were changed. I too have grown weary of this broken mechanic of a swing. One in ten rounds Feels sorta proper the other 9 rounds the swing has no feel whatsoever. Been considering what I used to do in TGC1 and just play courses without tempo on legendary. |
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Post by cseanny on May 27, 2021 11:33:05 GMT -5
Being quite serious. If we gave everyone at TGCTs a PS4, and every single person played wired, L/R edges, 92% of you would still suck. The top 8% will always be the top 8%, regardless if using RF, RS, GF, GS, Wired, Wireless, PC, and anything and everything in between. That's right, the top 8% would still be crushing you even if you used PS4 wired L/R, and they did not. Well, excluding Xbox! Having said that, the input lottery is real, even on same platforms. Some players have tried PS4 wired to L/R edges but no matter what we tried it wouldn't work for them. That person is already winning anyways, however, even still, it makes no sense not to use the most efficient calibration method possible. With the broken coding and input as it stands, some people are also incapable of playing wireless, or even other methods, meaning, some will be forced to play to a particular calibration. Take your pick as to which particular calibration that might be because the lottery decides for them.
No one is cheating. To be clear, I am an Arcade Enthusiast and have absolutely no problem with anyone using these techniques. People are working within the confines of what the game has given them and are using a technique which produces the best results. If people want change, then flood TGCTs to create a fair play policy which searches, seeks, and destroys specific techniques and mechanics. As it stands now, all is fair in Love and War.
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Post by sroel908 on May 27, 2021 12:00:51 GMT -5
No one is cheating. To be clear, I am an Arcade Enthusiast and have absolutely no problem with anyone using these techniques. People are working within the confines of what the game has given them and are using a technique which produces the best results. If people want change, then flood TGCTs to create a fair play policy which searches, seeks, and destroys specific techniques and mechanics. As it stands now, all is fair in Love and War.
What's funny is that this could also have been said about red fasts in general. It wasn't against the rules to hit red fasts, just like these calibration techniques are fair game. Only thing is - anyone could have played red fasts - Xboxers, PSers, PCers...it was available to all, unlike these calibration systems. Strange how that all worked out... |
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Post by cseanny on May 27, 2021 12:12:57 GMT -5
fransslabak PS4 wired, and L/R edge calibration has the strongest rounding possible. Pretty OP right!? Well........., this is only true on Master difficulty! Why? 'Cause the 2nd input point, the one which hits the edges on both sides of the grey, actually overshoots and misses the furthest White borders on PRO. Where am I going with this? Next time you're on a tee somewhere, do me a favor ok? Switch to PRO settings real quick and hit some shots and take notice where they land in the tempo box. With a never calibrated before, stock wired set-up, when playing on PRO, you'll strike perfects at Dead center, a 2nd input point a bit further over, and finally, a 3rd input point which land just before the edge of perfect. This never calibrated wired set-up can even use Max Loft and around 50% Angle on most Purple rated Irons. In case you weren't aware, this wired, non calibration set-up actually has the Second Strongest rounding in the game. You just don't take advantage of it with the smaller perfect window found on Masters.
Some of you take pride in not playing the game on a broken setting and to that I say Fair Enough. Play the game in a manner which suits you best. Just keep in mind that if you change difficulty settings you'll be playing the game in the most overpowering manner possible.
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