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Post by xboxjonnyuk on Dec 7, 2020 8:08:40 GMT -5
If you like to play fasts play fasts, if you want to play perfects play perfects, if you are ultra competitive and it gets up your nose that others are doing better then learn to play fasts. I’m content to try and hit perfects and if it means I struggle and not competitive then so be it but the satisfaction I will have once I’ve improved will be without doubt the best feeling in the world 😊
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Post by rob4590 on Dec 7, 2020 8:33:58 GMT -5
Perhaps I’m uneducated but if it’s not easier to get a red fast than a perfect/gray, then why do you think so many players play this way? And you’re right, when players found loopholes in previous versions to hit predictable shots, API metrics were implemented to disqualify their scores. And it’s ok that you can’t hit a fairway without a red fast, that’s kinda the point. The practice range is always there for you. Name one example where specific api metrics were put in place to remove certain play styles
Short swinging (flicking)
Push/pull
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Post by dime5150 on Dec 7, 2020 8:51:10 GMT -5
Name one example where specific api metrics were put in place to remove certain play styles
Short swinging (flicking)
Push/pull
Why was the fast draw not a problem in 2019? I certainly played a draw in 2019, never heard a peep
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Post by gatorman on Dec 7, 2020 8:58:13 GMT -5
I’m new to the game and I play the same way, as in trying to hit perfect gatorman and adjusting for the lie, wind, rough etc ( even though that’s just a guess as well at the moment lol). I’ve just accepted that I’m going to be shooting a lot of + rounds at the minute until i improve and get more consistent. I make sure that I go to the driving round before I start any rounds and go from there. I’m also going to be playing my Qualifying School rounds this week as well so wish me luck and hopefully I make the cut Good luck. I continue to try to play within the perfect/grey range. It's critical to hit fairways, and practice the short game to lower your score. My biggest downfall are the approach shots. Even when I hit a good tee shot in the fairway, it's hard for me to get that second shot close enough to the pin to get easier birdies. Usually need splash/chip/flop/pitch to get on the green, and then hope for the par.
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Post by rob4590 on Dec 7, 2020 9:00:19 GMT -5
Short swinging (flicking)
Push/pull
Why was the fast draw not a problem in 2019? I certainly played a draw in 2019, never heard a peep
Because tempo was dead easy in 19 (compared with 2k21) - so there was no advantage / additional consistency in playing anything other than perfect
And effectively the push / pull was the equivalent - you had way less (sideways) dispersion if you hit every shotline 30 degrees off either side than if you aimed for the straight vertical line.
(Should add that the push/pull was only implemented on PGA and TST in 19 - so if you weren't playing those, that may be why you were never pulled for it.....)
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Post by dime5150 on Dec 7, 2020 9:29:53 GMT -5
Why was the fast draw not a problem in 2019? I certainly played a draw in 2019, never heard a peep
Because tempo was dead easy in 19 (compared with 2k21) - so there was no advantage / additional consistency in playing anything other than perfect
And effectively the push / pull was the equivalent - you had way less (sideways) dispersion if you hit every shotline 30 degrees off either side than if you aimed for the straight vertical line.
(Should add that the push/pull was only implemented on PGA and TST in 19 - so if you weren't playing those, that may be why you were never pulled for it.....)
I’ve played every iteration since tgc1, I don’t see how you could develop a catch for playing the fast, what’s the limit? Half inch outside of the cone? 1 inch? I play a slight draw, ideally I’m within a 1/4 inch of the cone, I sim down the right side of the fairway and draw it to the middle, if that’s wrong, then I can live with that
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Post by thebu11d0g on Dec 7, 2020 10:07:33 GMT -5
I’m new to the game and I play the same way, as in trying to hit perfect gatorman and adjusting for the lie, wind, rough etc ( even though that’s just a guess as well at the moment lol). I’ve just accepted that I’m going to be shooting a lot of + rounds at the minute until i improve and get more consistent. I make sure that I go to the driving round before I start any rounds and go from there. I’m also going to be playing my Qualifying School rounds this week as well so wish me luck and hopefully I make the cut Good luck. I continue to try to play within the perfect/grey range. It's critical to hit fairways, and practice the short game to lower your score. My biggest downfall are the approach shots. Even when I hit a good tee shot in the fairway, it's hard for me to get that second shot close enough to the pin to get easier birdies. Usually need splash/chip/flop/pitch to get on the green, and then hope for the par. Thanks mate. One thing I’ve definitely realised in playing some rounds is that, like you say, I need to work on my short game a hell of a lot lol. I’m currently shooting around +8 - +10 on average per round on the career mode and practice rounds and a lot to do with it is struggling around the green after an initial approach that went left or right due to hitting a slow or fast swing instead of the perfect
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Post by mrohde4 on Dec 7, 2020 12:35:16 GMT -5
Because tempo was dead easy in 19 (compared with 2k21) - so there was no advantage / additional consistency in playing anything other than perfect
And effectively the push / pull was the equivalent - you had way less (sideways) dispersion if you hit every shotline 30 degrees off either side than if you aimed for the straight vertical line.
(Should add that the push/pull was only implemented on PGA and TST in 19 - so if you weren't playing those, that may be why you were never pulled for it.....)
I’ve played every iteration since tgc1, I don’t see how you could develop a catch for playing the fast, what’s the limit? Half inch outside of the cone? 1 inch? I play a slight draw, ideally I’m within a 1/4 inch of the cone, I sim down the right side of the fairway and draw it to the middle, if that’s wrong, then I can live with that For tempo, getting a consistent Red Fast is easier than consistent Perfect. Does anybody disagree with that? Not sure if the tempo "zone" is bigger for Red Fast than Perfect, but it sure seems that way. For full shots, the intent for execution should always be for Perfect tempo with a swing plane within the channel. That's the challenge presented by the design. Because it's labeled "Perfect" as oppose to "Medium," the designers of this computer program/game probably didn't intend for players to be successful knocking it around with a mishit. This was the exact issue with the 2019 push/pull that was eventually controlled by the API. In all TGC games since TGC2, the player is faced with two challenges in executing a full shot: tempo and accuracy. Sure, there is lie %, wind, elevation, etc., but these are all pre-shot and bear no relevance on execution. In TGC2019, getting consistent accuracy was a tougher burden than Perfect tempo. The 'push/pull' loophole was an accuracy sidestep, and in 2K21 the Red Fast is a tempo sidestep. In 2K21, we can all agree that tempo is the more challenging burden. The Red Fast issue has become so widespread that it's the norm. Which is fine I suppose, but it's a bummer for competitive purposes. Not everyone is playing the same game. Sure, blame HB ("Don't hate the player, hate the game") but the decision to implement Master difficulty across all tours probably assumed players would actually challenge themselves on Master difficulty. What I see on 90%+ of streams is Pro difficulty disguised as Master difficulty with Red Fasts on every. single. shot. I firmly believe that players who consistently get Red Fasts could consistently get Perfect or gray Fast/Slow with practice and a commitment to not overswinging. Getting Perfects with 97-99% backswing is a lot easier than always 101%-102%. Which is what you usually always see. An API proposal to curb the tempo loophole abuse would be to analyze the tempo on a player's tee shot (on par 4s and 5s) with their distance and shot result (fairway, rough, water, etc). If a player's tempo was overwhelmingly in the Red Fast zone but their FIR was 100%, that's saying something. This type of API metric should only be implemented at the highest levels, and who knows if it's even possible. But getting in the fairway with no stress 330 yards+ is a HUGE scoring advantage than anything in the rough. For shots other than Par 4/5 tee balls, I say Red Fast is fair game because being laser accurate using this strategy isn't super easy. I realize I'm spinning wheels and that's fine, but this perspective needs exposure when you consider TGCT's stances on previous fair play issues. There've been discussions about chipping on greens, straight shooters, modified controllers, scripts, flicking, push/pull, and now the Red Fast. Without those like myself speaking up, these issues aren't considered.
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Post by twofor22 on Dec 8, 2020 1:46:29 GMT -5
Back to the OP, no I haven't gone away from trying for perfects most shots, except on short pitches and splashes/flops but that's mainly to avoid red slows that stuff the shot completely. Sometimes I'll do it off the tee on par 4s and 5s to counteract a left to right wind, or if the hole shapes left, but not every single shot.
About a month ago or so I found a nice swing rhythm that works for me, and then calibrated my swing using this rhythm. Since then I've hit a lot more perfects or grey zone shots and my scores have improved noticeably. I moved up a flight a couple of weeks ago too. It got messed up when this update installed for whatever reason so I went and recalibrated earlier today and it's back to "normal" again.
I don't think it's necessary to hit red fasts all the time to shoot lower scores, however I am on PS4 so it's probably a bit easier than the Xbox players are experiencing.
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bigmike
Caddy
Posts: 61
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by bigmike on Dec 16, 2020 23:01:41 GMT -5
Good thing the fast players aren't as elitist about other players using mismatching beginner clubs to achieve perfects lol.
But in all seriousness, at the end of the day we all gotta make putts. I see great players that play for perfects and great players that use a fast swing. The thing they have in common is they can really read the greens and make putts. I guarentee you that guys who are struggling aren't shooting +4 because they missed a few fairways or greens, it's cause they have 30 ish putts or more.
The biggest jump I made in improvement had nothing to do with my swing. Despite spending weeks building a consistent swing, it didn't yield consistent lower scores until I really started to putt better.
Guys that wanna move up to the pro tours, it's done on the green, and it's done with the patience to learn the different speeds, learning how to read breaks, and by finding your own method to consistently achieve a straight line "white" putting stroke.
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Post by Griz891 on Dec 17, 2020 2:30:01 GMT -5
I use red fast all the time but I really really suck at putting...Putting on this game is a nightmare for me.... I've got the red fast swings down to a science.
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Post by zooby97 on Dec 17, 2020 8:59:06 GMT -5
I use red fast all the time but I really really suck at putting...Putting on this game is a nightmare for me.... I've got the red fast swings down to a science. What is your average score per round?
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Post by PicnicGuy / BobalooNOLA on Dec 17, 2020 11:04:33 GMT -5
I agree with putting being HUGE compared to tee shots. I may have 14 full tee shots each round, but missing one of them can still be recovered (water hazards excepted), but you can't make up missed putts like you can make up for lost distance out of the cabbage.
Hitting to the right distance for your approaches to be full swings with a minor loft adjustment is a good tip ... and getting the right wedges in your bag.
It's almost like real golf ...😁
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Post by Cecil Harvey on Dec 17, 2020 11:16:42 GMT -5
Most of the above mentioning being a good putter assumes that a red fast player and a player playing for perfects have the same amount of opportunities for birdie and the same proximity to the hole when they do hit the green, which as an aggregate is probably going to favor the former player who uses a tactic that likely wasn't the intent by HB/2K nor by TGCTours when they set the difficulty setting for the tours back in August.
I also favor my opinions to the PS4/5 community of which I know it is possible to play for perfects. PC and especially XB1 is anecdotally harder tempo wise and I don't own the game on either to test personally (not that my one opinion would change the fact). I do know that the red fast gives life to this game to some players on those other platforms, especially XBox. I don't mean to aim my opinions at those players nearly as much as I do to the Playstation consoles.
Just my 2 pennies.
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Post by Blade on Dec 17, 2020 12:01:52 GMT -5
I use red fast all the time but I really really suck at putting...Putting on this game is a nightmare for me.... I've got the red fast swings down to a science. What is your average score per round? He shoots in the 60s consistently. He is in CC-A now.
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