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Post by rcknfrewld on Sept 11, 2020 13:23:22 GMT -5
One more point...is it an exploit for a pro golfer who always plays a draw? The key is to feel like you know what your ball will do every swing...but as referenced by Gary, if you're playing a draw into a tucked right pin life gets pretty challenging. My only counter would be if someone wants to play a draw why not use the shot shaper and hit a perfect? Going to be an interesting season thats for sure with what cut lines and winning scores will be outside of the Platinum Tour. I’m guessing nobody is going to use the shot shaper. It’s ridiculous. The ball flies sideways and saucers back. Add the wind and the ball screwballs and corkscrews. Why is tempo in the game if we’re not allowed to utilize it? And it takes way more skill to utilize tempo; fasts and slows, then to just click away.
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Post by Nemecyst on Sept 11, 2020 13:59:45 GMT -5
I think it depends on if it's actually significantly easier to hit the same fast area consistently than hitting the straight up 12 o'clock perfect area. I used to think about it as a cheap manipulation of the swing that wasn't intended but the more I think about it, they are really just shifting the 'perfect' area to the left. I keep seeing people say it eliminates a 2 way miss but does it really? If you are playing for a fast you are probably aiming way right. So if you 'accidentally' hit a perfect, you are going to miss your target to the right. If you hit a VF you are still going to miss left. I see plenty of people on here who play for a fast still say they occasionally get slow, perfect, and VF so I don't think it's a huge issue. I don't play for a fast but I see it as their red fast would be equivalent to me hitting a grey fast and them hitting a perfect would be equivalent to me hitting a slow. Maybe I'm way off, I don't know, but that's how I see it anyways.
Now if, say, the range for a true perfect is only +/-2ms and the range for the same 'fast' is like +/-6ms, then maybe it's a problem. But I haven't noticed anything that repeatable on xbox so far at least. (Side note: I have not a single clue about the range numbers, just throwing out randoms as an example lol)
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Post by donkeypuncherben on Sept 11, 2020 14:13:19 GMT -5
One more point...is it an exploit for a pro golfer who always plays a draw? The key is to feel like you know what your ball will do every swing...but as referenced by Gary, if you're playing a draw into a tucked right pin life gets pretty challenging. My only counter would be if someone wants to play a draw why not use the shot shaper and hit a perfect? Going to be an interesting season thats for sure with what cut lines and winning scores will be outside of the Platinum Tour.
For one reason is the fast goes a little further. I was playing a mostly fasts off the tee at the end of TGC2019 for a few extra yards too and no one complained.
Another is that the strategy is more about never slow than it is always fast, at least for me.
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Post by ErixonStone on Sept 11, 2020 14:55:05 GMT -5
I think it depends on if it's actually significantly easier to hit the same fast area consistently than hitting the straight up 12 o'clock perfect area. I used to think about it as a cheap manipulation of the swing that wasn't intended but the more I think about it, they are really just shifting the 'perfect' area to the left. I keep seeing people say it eliminates a 2 way miss but does it really? If you are playing for a fast you are probably aiming way right. So if you 'accidentally' hit a perfect, you are going to miss your target to the right. If you hit a VF you are still going to miss left. I see plenty of people on here who play for a fast still say they occasionally get slow, perfect, and VF so I don't think it's a huge issue. I don't play for a fast but I see it as their red fast would be equivalent to me hitting a grey fast and them hitting a perfect would be equivalent to me hitting a slow. Maybe I'm way off, I don't know, but that's how I see it anyways. Now if, say, the range for a true perfect is only +/-2ms and the range for the same 'fast' is like +/-6ms, then maybe it's a problem. But I haven't noticed anything that repeatable on xbox so far at least. (Side note: I have not a single clue about the range numbers, just throwing out randoms as an example lol) I play for "fast" because I can get the most consistent results, but it is far from actually consistent. I get perfects on occasion, a whole array of different fasts and a few very fasts sprinkled in. I miss left, I miss right, I miss short and I miss long. I get better results on Pro difficulty when playing H2H. On Master for TGCT events, I'm all over the course - usually in the water. I think the maximum miss - the worst possible shot you can hit - is completely unplayable in this game. In TGC2019, you could max-out your miss and cheese your way to consistent, quality outcomes. I don't think that's possible in PGA2K21. The worst shots are awful (rightly so).
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Sept 11, 2020 15:14:50 GMT -5
I think it depends on if it's actually significantly easier to hit the same fast area consistently than hitting the straight up 12 o'clock perfect area. This.
If the dispersion is equal across the range of outcomes, it's fine.
If the dispersion gets less and less the further you are away from the middle, then it's literally identical to the 2019 push/pull situation and needs to be policed
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Sept 11, 2020 15:20:34 GMT -5
One more point...is it an exploit for a pro golfer who always plays a draw? No. But very few pro golfers play deliberately for a massive hook, because by its very nature it's not controllable.
In this game everything is far too predictable for this to be a truly valid comparison IMO.
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Post by FRSTDWN on Sept 11, 2020 15:36:50 GMT -5
Is playing a slow a exploit? I prefer a fade because I play that way IRL and they land softer.
This gm is now about a planned miss more times than not. You have to pick where u want to miss . Just like real golf. Which means perfect can be a miss and mostly will be . Well unless you are a robot and have figured out how to hit perfect all the time. I don't see it happening on Xbox Masters. Certainly not on legend.
Someone saying this gm is predictable is not the playing the same gm I'm playing and a lot of the people I know who are better than me. In fact just like real golf everytime I think I am figuring it out I get reminded I don't.
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Post by BillySastard976 on Sept 11, 2020 15:41:02 GMT -5
I tried the fast off the tee thing, aiming right and hooking in, I found it far more repeatable than a perfect, though perfects are few and far between on Xbox. It's not really an exploit in my opinion, at least not in the sense of the push/pull in 2019.
I do think it's easier to pull off with a degree of consistency but it's in the game so anyone can do it. I'll continue to try for perfect or close to because I personally feel it's how the game was designed to be played, though really I'm on the wrong console to do it with much success.
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Post by CTLegacy on Sept 11, 2020 15:45:14 GMT -5
I think it depends on if it's actually significantly easier to hit the same fast area consistently than hitting the straight up 12 o'clock perfect area. This.
If the dispersion is equal across the range of outcomes, it's fine.
If the dispersion gets less and less the further you are away from the middle, then it's literally identical to the 2019 push/pull situation and needs to be policed
Came here just to say this... Not any different from a push/pull if you ask me. I'd love to see 2K/HB address the fast swing. Make it as punishing as much as a slow is. Slow really kills your shot completely. A Fast should have a similar effect. It should have an increased effect the farther away from center you are. Also at a certain point away from center, it should start losing distance as well. If you hook a shot IRL it won't go 300 yards, it will lose distance to the hook.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2020 15:48:54 GMT -5
Unfortunately if we are talking about realism, a hook or draw doesn't have a longer carry distance in real golf. More roll out but less ball carry. Hooking or drawing the ball to carry water is ridiculous.
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Post by jtcurrent on Sept 11, 2020 16:05:50 GMT -5
I think it depends on if it's actually significantly easier to hit the same fast area consistently than hitting the straight up 12 o'clock perfect area. This.
If the dispersion is equal across the range of outcomes, it's fine.
If the dispersion gets less and less the further you are away from the middle, then it's literally identical to the 2019 push/pull situation and needs to be policed
I agree...and so far it's not like 2019.
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Post by jtcurrent on Sept 11, 2020 16:12:33 GMT -5
One more point...is it an exploit for a pro golfer who always plays a draw? No. But very few pro golfers play deliberately for a massive hook, because by its very nature it's not controllable.
In this game everything is far too predictable for this to be a truly valid comparison IMO.
OK maybe so. But the outcome of the swing, regardless of tempo, is controlled for by a perfectly straight line. So if you're fortunate enough to be able to get that you are in great shape and even an off tempo shot only goes a certain distance off line. Isn't this an exploit? I don't actually think so but that's my point. If I play for a red fast and I miss center it's penal. If I play for a red fast and get a white fast, or a perfect, or a slow, it's penal. So while it's one way to play the game it's certainly not an exploit. Do I find I enjoy the game more...yes. Do I shoot better scores...depends how accurate I am on the line and getting the tempo right. Would I prefer to go for straight lines and a perfect...damn right because I'd shoot much better. But I have never been a straight shooter (in the game) so I feel, so long as I don't exploit an exploit, I can use what the game offers to find a way to get the ball in the hole as fast as possible. Honestly I only think this is an issue because in 2019 there was a hard stop to the distance off line the miss would travel. Trust me...that doesn't exist here!
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Post by jtcurrent on Sept 11, 2020 16:13:29 GMT -5
Unfortunately if we are talking about realism, a hook or draw doesn't have a longer carry distance in real golf. More roll out but less ball carry. Hooking or drawing the ball to carry water is ridiculous. Typically it does. I hit my draw further than my fade and I think most players do. The draw is tougher to control in general but, controlling for wind, you do tend to get a few more yards.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2020 16:16:44 GMT -5
Unfortunately if we are talking about realism, a hook or draw doesn't have a longer carry distance in real golf. More roll out but less ball carry. Hooking or drawing the ball to carry water is ridiculous. Typically it does. I hit my draw further than my fade and I think most players do. The draw is tougher to control in general but, controlling for wind, you do tend to get a few more yards. The more side spin you have on a shot irl the less carry you get, this hooking or drawing or hitting fast basically for more ball carry is a bit arcade tbh and not realistic at all.
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Post by jtcurrent on Sept 11, 2020 16:31:01 GMT -5
Typically it does. I hit my draw further than my fade and I think most players do. The draw is tougher to control in general but, controlling for wind, you do tend to get a few more yards. The more side spin you have on a shot irl the less carry you get, this hooking or drawing or hitting fast basically for more ball carry is a bit arcade tbh and not realistic at all. You're correct if impact conditions are equal. But typically on a draw there's more force and a squarer face, therefore creating a disparate impact condition versus the fade. Having said all that the slow (fade) in this game probably takes off too much distance. It's terribly penal, especially on pitch shots.
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