BLM

[Deleted]

Jul 2, 2020 5:24:19 GMT -5 cliffs said:

Jul 1, 2020 22:29:13 GMT -5 @chrashbird said:

Completely unrelated, but was you Dusty Roads from the original HB Studios TGC1 forum?

Who and why?

Just curious, you have the same profile pic in the politico forum as he did on hb forums, both from New England and you joined this forum a week after Dusty stopped posting over there. Didn’t know if it was a coincidence or not?

[JosiaDB]

Probably wont' check or respond to this thread again until next time I'm  bored waiting on a customer, but thought I'd offer a few thoughts if anyone is willing to listen to them.

cliffs hit the nail on the head.   Its about respect.

My boss is white.   He has been stopped on the street simply because of the way he looked and asked what he was doing, and to explain himself even though he was doing nothing wrong more than once.   Once, he was actually taken to the station and held.   And had done absolutely nothing wrong.   Was he black?  No, he had long hair and was wearing something they didn't like the look of and didn't respect them.

I am white.  I have been stopped before, the same way.   In one case, the officer was SO MAD he was shouting at me and had his hand on his gun.   I simply responded to him with respect, I called him sir, I did not threaten him, and within 30 seconds the situation was defused, and he allowed me to explain and then after that he breathed slowly and apologized.

I have many GOOD friends that are GOOD cops.  One is a next door neighbor, several are very close friends and family.   You guys that don't know cops closely have no idea of the stress they go through.   My neighbor talks to me a lot about the stress he has when he has to stop someone, or worse yet they take off running and you have to chase them, and you have no idea if you are going to live through the next 10 minutes.    One wrong 'oh sir could you-' bam you are dead.

I had the oppurtunity one time to go through a training with some cops in a real life situation using real bullets.  I've never been the same.   The training course was done with high tech mirrors so they were using live rounds.   The actors were playing the parts of the people being stopped, and doing what various people that are stopped do, as you are seeing on the news right now.   OH MY GOODNESS, you guys  cannot imagine the stress.  I was shaking.  Gave me a whole new perspective on what these guys go through on a daily basis.  I couldn't do it.

Whatever reason you have been detained,  the best thing for you to do is to be calm and respectful and answer their questions.  AFTER you have let them realize you are not a threat, talk nicely, and almost every time, the situation will be defused and you both can move on.   Most people don't get that.    Don't think of it as I wasn't doing anything this guy has no right to question me.   Think of it as this guy thinks I'm a threat for some reason and he is probably scared of what I might do, and I need to let him know that I am not a threat.   

[staypuft39]

I am white and I have never been stopped without reason. Just in case anyone was judging this BLM thread by the experiences of white dudes.
I always thought it was the trained cops that were supposed to de-escalate...not the innocent civilians...but you learn something new every day I guess.

[LKeet6]

Another white person denying things are different for black people and expecting them to deal with situations in the same way as them 🙄

Literally ALL that's required here is empathy! They're TELLING you what's happening to them! The news stories are there for you to see!

Plus some classic whatabouttery with "some cops are good." Wow, I didn't know that! 🙄

And the "I won't be back to check the replies." So a dump and run basically 🙄 I quite liked that actually, good tactic! 😂

[ErixonStone]

Jul 2, 2020 12:46:41 GMT -5 JosiaDB said:

I had the oppurtunity one time to go through a training with some cops in a real life situation using real bullets.  I've never been the same.   The training course was done with high tech mirrors so they were using live rounds.   The actors were playing the parts of the people being stopped, and doing what various people that are stopped do, as you are seeing on the news right now.   OH MY GOODNESS, you guys  cannot imagine the stress.  I was shaking.  Gave me a whole new perspective on what these guys go through on a daily basis.  I couldn't do it.

This is one of the problems that BLM is trying to highlight. This type of training militarizes the police and indoctrinates officers to believe that every situation is inherently dangerous.

It's why police should be defunded. Officers going through this type of training are ill equipped to handle anything other than a chasedown of an actual violent criminal. They're not able to handle cases of mental illness, domestic disturbances, minor traffic stops and the myriad other non-dangerous tasks they're burdened with.

When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Defund the police and shrink their responsibility. Reinvest the savings into mental health workers, education and public assistance.

End the war on drugs. Legalize and regulate them. Expunge records for non-violent drug offenses (possession and sale). Criminalizing some drugs has not done much in reducing their use. See: the Opiod Crisis.

Increase and more fairly distribute educational funding. Most public schools are funded by local property tax, meaning less-affluent neighborhoods have less funding for their schools, resulting in poorer education and, consequently, poorer neighborhoods. It's no coincidence that black folks were red-lined into those poorer neighborhoods. We've done nothing, as a society, to even try to fix it.

Crime is a function of poverty (it's not the only factor, of course). Reducing crime means reducing poverty.

[LKeet6]

Reducing poverty means reducing crime.

[ezzinomilonga]

No, wait..make me understand. In short, in USA is considered fair enough if not normal that a policeman beats you if you don't show "enough respect" to him?

Wow..a real land of the freedom..

Here we have a lot of problems, we are also clearly becoming a racist country as USA is, although here no one would ever admit this simple, sad fact, (but this is good, cause it means that to be a stupid ignorant racist is still considered something to be ashamed for, at least in public) and i can barely consider my country to be still a democracy..and of course we have good and bad cops as in any other country. We also have our good amount of sociopathic psychopats, no counting all those declared fascists, who decided to became cops exactly to have an excuse to beat undefended people and to show their gun at the first occasion, obviously to compensate the hard and cold facts they are repressed cowards with generally a very little penis and that they knows barely how to read and write...and, of course, if you show lack of respect to a policeman, he can easily ruin your day in a bunch of ways. Is all about to be smart enough to avoid troubles.

But even the worst ignorant and violent scum you can ever find dressed as a policeman, here, he knows extremely well that if you are not a clear threat for someone, he can use some violence only when and if he can do it in some precinct, with no witnesses. Or at the stadium for soccer matches, fighting other idiots fascists (that is always a better show to watch than to go at the zoo).

And all this because here (and, i can say it proudly, especially here in Sicily) if a cop should ever dare to beat someone disarmed and not clearly dangerous for other people in the streets or in any case with some witness, he would be dead. Clear and simple.
And, after his funeral, people would consider a sacre duty to piss on his grave everyday. 2 times per day.

I don't know how it works on your countries and what say your constitutions..but here policeman are still considered servants of the State. And the state is made by the people. Then, the cops are made to protect and to serve the people. Not to beat them for "lack of respect". No matter their color.

Here, even if you are guilty of breaking the law, a cop can never beat you.
A policeman can use violence only if his (or someone's else) life is threated by someone clearly dangerous.
That's all.
It couldn't be easier than this.

[JosiaDB]

Jul 2, 2020 13:33:13 GMT -5 LKeet6 said:

Another white person denying things are different for black people and expecting them to deal with situations in the same way as them 🙄

Literally ALL that's required here is empathy! They're TELLING you what's happening to them! The news stories are there for you to see!

Plus some classic whatabouttery with "some cops are good." Wow, I didn't know that! 🙄

And the "I won't be back to check the replies." So a dump and run basically 🙄 I quite liked that actually, good tactic! 😂

Well, I tried to give an honest opinion, and I did log in and check, and this is what I find.     sigh. 

This response is EXACTLY WHY I HATE TO COMMENT AT ALL ON THREADS LIKE THIS.  I should have done what I normally try to do and just stayed away.   

LKeet6 I don't feel that I said anything at all in my post to elicit the sarcasm or whatever it is you came back with.   I was simply stating my opinions based on real people I know,  real situations that have happened to me and people I know, and just trying to offer another side of the coin.   I didn't feel like I put anything in my post that would make anyone upset, or roll their eyes, or come back at me with such a vehement attitude.   I was just saying this it how it is based on real things that I know.  You can watch and believe the news and someone else all you want.  I was relating real life experiences, hoping to show the other side of the matter where I live.   I'm  sure it is different in other places, but not here.

But reactions like this are the reason I have been slacking off from this board, this league, and your league and board in general.  Go ahead give a comeback, call it what you want, spin it however you want.   I don't wanna talk to you any more or have anything to do with you if this is the way you debate things.  Responses like this just make me mad at you.   And I don't want to be mad, I just want to play a game.   Guess I'll just  go back to not even checking off topic stuff.   Or as you say, "dump and  run" .  Or as I would rather call it, you aren't worth my time.   

As far as defunding police,  I'm at the point I say do it.   Lets get rid of all police.  I can protect myself and my family.   I'm ready.   Everyone for their selves, lets do this, I can handle it.   Lets see what happens.in the wild west.

ezzinomilonga  not sure if you got the idea from my post or not, but if you did, I never said anything at all about police beating anyone if you don't show any respect to him.   I was simply trying to make the point that if you show a bit of respect and treat the policeman like another human being,  most situations can be defused and are non issues.   Most cops are humans.  They will treat other people the same way they are treated.   Its basic human nature.   Most are not trained in the psychological part of how to deal stuff.  Instead of defunding police, maybe we should increase funds and help  them know better how to deal with this stuff. 

[karma4u]

Jul 2, 2020 14:41:14 GMT -5 ErixonStone said:

Jul 2, 2020 12:46:41 GMT -5 JosiaDB said:

I had the oppurtunity one time to go through a training with some cops in a real life situation using real bullets.  I've never been the same.   The training course was done with high tech mirrors so they were using live rounds.   The actors were playing the parts of the people being stopped, and doing what various people that are stopped do, as you are seeing on the news right now.   OH MY GOODNESS, you guys  cannot imagine the stress.  I was shaking.  Gave me a whole new perspective on what these guys go through on a daily basis.  I couldn't do it.

This is one of the problems that BLM is trying to highlight. This type of training militarizes the police and indoctrinates officers to believe that every situation is inherently dangerous.

It's why police should be defunded. Officers going through this type of training are ill equipped to handle anything other than a chasedown of an actual violent criminal. They're not able to handle cases of mental illness, domestic disturbances, minor traffic stops and the myriad other non-dangerous tasks they're burdened with.

When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Defund the police and shrink their responsibility. Reinvest the savings into mental health workers, education and public assistance.

End the war on drugs. Legalize and regulate them. Expunge records for non-violent drug offenses (possession and sale). Criminalizing some drugs has not done much in reducing their use. See: the Opiod Crisis.

Increase and more fairly distribute educational funding. Most public schools are funded by local property tax, meaning less-affluent neighborhoods have less funding for their schools, resulting in poorer education and, consequently, poorer neighborhoods. It's no coincidence that black folks were red-lined into those poorer neighborhoods. We've done nothing, as a society, to even try to fix it.

Crime is a function of poverty (it's not the only factor, of course). Reducing crime means reducing poverty.

Great post Patrick. Thank you.

[FRSTDWN]

Funny how someone can say a lot of the same things but they don't get approval from the moral elite. Awww...I'm sad.

I hope BLM gets what they want but be careful what you wish for. Racism has no place in our society but I don't agree with socialism solving poverty for minorities since it has not worked very well in big blue cities. Any guess on how many black people will die this weekend? Again where is BLM ?

The tear it down cancel this or remove that woke mob is comical at best . Erasing history doesn't solve anything. Learning from it does. They took down Grant. He won the civil war. Lincoln next? Statue of Liberty? I won't get into Washington or Mount Rushmore. That would be a long rant. I even saw Jimi Hendrix was defaced. But it is possible that the woke mob doesn't know history since public schools and universities are run by clowns. Hence my point.

Also police are way under paid and putting social workers who make even less in a violent situation is laughable.

And white people who kneel. Stop . You look like aholes.

[ezzinomilonga]

JosiaDB short answer : no, my comment was not referred to your comment in particular.

Long answer :
My statement has no need to be referred to a comment specifically. If you read all the thread, from at least 4 or 5 comments it seems quite clear that to see cops overreact and to show authority even using rude manners just for some form of "lack of respect", is considered actually acceptable, if not absooutely normal, in USA.
In the same way as, in USA, it seems to be normal to be stopped and questioned by policemen about your fu$@*ng business, documents etcetera when you are simply walking on the street doing nothing but your outfit or your hairs looks strange or not appropriated enough to them, in some way.

And i find all these things (and what they means in the citizen's life of every day, above all) simply amazing.

Because this attitude and behavior from a police corp, actually, is exactly the one you should expect to find in the police of a fascist state.

But, so said, if i'm the only one amazed by these things and for you guys who are living in USA this is just normal as it seems to be and nobody notices how much this state of things should be considered just crazy..well, what can i say...enjoy it. And good luck.

[titaneddie]

If anyone is interested I thought Marcellus Wiley had a really good take on his show speak for yourself on whether or not the nba should paint BLM on the courts. Whether or not you agree it's rare to see thoughtful answer on sports show panel these days...

It's on both his twitter or the shows twitter.

[theclv24]

Jul 2, 2020 18:51:18 GMT -5 JosiaDB said:

Jul 2, 2020 13:33:13 GMT -5 LKeet6 said:

Another white person denying things are different for black people and expecting them to deal with situations in the same way as them 🙄

Literally ALL that's required here is empathy! They're TELLING you what's happening to them! The news stories are there for you to see!

Plus some classic whatabouttery with "some cops are good." Wow, I didn't know that! 🙄

And the "I won't be back to check the replies." So a dump and run basically 🙄 I quite liked that actually, good tactic! 😂

As far as defunding police,  I'm at the point I say do it.   Lets get rid of all police.  I can protect myself and my family.   I'm ready.   Everyone for their selves, lets do this, I can handle it.   Lets see what happens.in the wild west.

That's not what defunding the police means, for the record. It's honestly not a very appropriate word for what people mean when they say it. It's actually the opposite of the wild west, it's community.

I think one thing we can agree on is that regardless of police, EMT's, nurses, grocery workers, etc, we treat and pay our essential workers like sh%$, no? This will be hard to solve until we reckon with that.

[ezzinomilonga]

This couldn't be more true. Is a shame how unfair is the wage of all our basic workers. But, especially for the police, is absolutely absurd. Their work is priceless to avoid exactly that nightmare scenario in which everyone feels himself free to administate his own justice.

And the huge majority of them (of course i can talk only about the situation here in Italy, but i believe is the same evereywhere) is absolutely aware of the responsability requires their work. And they absolve their duties with great humanity and common sense, in a country in which is really uneasy to be a policeman. To be honest.
There are of course rotten apples, but they are in every human group.

I always believed the condition of policemen, nurses and teachers (especially those who works with childrens from 6 to 10/12 years) is always a good and fast meter to judge the level of a democracy. And unfortunally here in Italy these categories are in great difficulty. For various reasons.

And..i wish also to add that, always here in Italy, is a double shame to see how much abandoned policemen are, really often, by that same State they serves and defends, paying often with their lifes. With not even the money for the fuel of their cars..and being never enough protected at all (look our soccer stadiums, just for an easy example).

[nevadaballin]

Jul 1, 2020 19:22:06 GMT -5 cliffs said:

No I am not black but I was raise to respect my elders and those of authority.

You are failing to understand the problem bud. Big time fail.

The respect isn’t reciprocated back to blacks by the police. This is not and has not been a secret. A black man could act exactly the same way you do and be harmed or even killed. You would not.

Just to note, everyone has a right to ask an officer why. Whites get an answer. Blacks get handcuffed.