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Post by Demonondalinks on Feb 20, 2020 12:41:52 GMT -5
Jim Furyk has one of the sloppiest looking swings ever but he repeats it time after time. He had great career. Lee Trevino, no way any instructor would teach his style. But he made it work.
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Post by GW_Hope on Feb 20, 2020 13:06:52 GMT -5
Jim Furyk has one of the sloppiest looking swings ever but he repeats it time after time. He had great career. Lee Trevino, no way any instructor would teach his style. But he made it work. Not sure what this has to do with anything but thanks for the info. PS There is an off topic section.
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Post by fadgewacker on Feb 20, 2020 13:11:37 GMT -5
Jim Furyk has one of the sloppiest looking swings ever but he repeats it time after time. He had great career. Lee Trevino, no way any instructor would teach his style. But he made it work. There’s a fair bit more in discussion here than unconventional real life swings. It’s a bit more complex to break down than that analogy affords, but I get what you’re saying.
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Post by titan30003 on Feb 20, 2020 13:15:27 GMT -5
Jim Furyk has one of the sloppiest looking swings ever but he repeats it time after time. He had great career. Lee Trevino, no way any instructor would teach his style. But he made it work. Not sure what this has to do with anything but thanks for the info. PS There is an off topic section. I'm not sure why you think this is off topic. I presume he's saying that if we're comparing things to real life (as an argument why the push swing is unrealistic), then look, here's some amazing golfers with wonky swings, just like in our game. Rebuttal: Yeah, but they are the exception rather than the rule. The reason why you don't see many wonky swings on the real PGA is that you have to be extremely talented to overcome a wonky swing, and have to be extremely precise all the time, no room for error. Whereas in this game, a wonky swing is rewarded.
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Post by GW_Hope on Feb 20, 2020 13:38:20 GMT -5
Not sure what this has to do with anything but thanks for the info. PS There is an off topic section. I'm not sure why you think this is off topic. I presume he's saying that if we're comparing things to real life (as an argument why the push swing is unrealistic), then look, here's some amazing golfers with wonky swings, just like in our game. Rebuttal: Yeah, but they are the exception rather than the rule. The reason why you don't see many wonky swings on the real PGA is that you have to be extremely talented to overcome a wonky swing, and have to be extremely precise all the time, no room for error. Whereas in this game, a wonky swing is rewarded. No problem with a push swing as long as the deviation from your intended swing line was consistent with a straight swing. It’s not. So the quote means nothing here. I have been trying to stay out of this since there is no solution here. But knowledge of the glitch can possibly promote changes in a new game.
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Post by Doyley on Feb 20, 2020 13:39:44 GMT -5
Not sure what this has to do with anything but thanks for the info. PS There is an off topic section. I'm not sure why you think this is off topic. I presume he's saying that if we're comparing things to real life (as an argument why the push swing is unrealistic), then look, here's some amazing golfers with wonky swings, just like in our game. Rebuttal: Yeah, but they are the exception rather than the rule. The reason why you don't see many wonky swings on the real PGA is that you have to be extremely talented to overcome a wonky swing, and have to be extremely precise all the time, no room for error. Whereas in this game, a wonky swing is rewarded. He repeats that wonky swing - in TGC2019 people that miss the cone don't have to repeat the same swing - there's a wider margin for error coupled with the fact they don't have to worry about missing the opposite direction.
Now if that wonky swing was all of a sudden set as their "normal" and they miss that wonky swing left/right and is punished similarly as the people trying to hit straight up/down - then all our problems are solved. Basically if everyone got their ideal custom/comfortable swing (say by going to the range and taking 20 swings and picking your 10 best to average out your ideal swing) and any deviation from that resulted in similar misses we'd be off and running.
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Post by mrohde4 on Feb 20, 2020 13:50:30 GMT -5
I am somebody whose natural swing has become something of a constant pull, so I don't like the idea of this being thought of as an exploit. However, in my testing, I agree, it does seem like there is less punishment for a pull swing when deviating from the intended pull line. This is a flaw in the game. I see your point, that they designed it that way... it still feels dumb to me. I would say for the push pull swing, they made a mistake in allowing this to happen, a mistake in the code I guess that deviated from their philosophy. Well said. Nobody is saying playing this way is cheating. But it's an advantage. There is a smaller range of shot outcomes when an experienced player aims outside the channel as compared with aiming for the traditional 6-to-12. A game design theory: Thinking about a clock, the blue channel occupies an area roughly between 11:50 and 12:10 on the swing feedback circle. Assuming no loft or fade/draw, a traditional 6-to-12 swing stock 8-iron's blue channel creates approx. 8-10 yards of total left/right accuracy dispersion. (With a downswing on either the left/right edge of the channel, the ball lands four-five yards left/right of the aiming circle center). Now if a player intentionally tries to swing at 12:30, then they can reasonably expect their swing result to be somewhere between 12:20 and 12:40. In my non-scientific anecdotal experience, the dispersion yardage between 12:20 and 12:40 is around six-eight yards. So, a player attempting a 12:30 downswing can more accurately predict their shot result than a player attempting a traditional 12:00 swing. I admit this isn't a huge advantage, but over 72 holes it could be 3-4 shots and maybe more, which can be huge in max competitive tournament golf. I believe the software clusters the data points when the swing is outside the channel. Can I prove this 100%? No. But ask yourself the result of a downswing at 2:30 or 3:00? If the downswing line was truly 1:1, the ball should travel directly to the right and land only 20-30 yards in front of the player. Instead, the ball travels the full distance with a flight path of about 30 degrees from the aiming point. So if horrible misses are clustered, then outcomes are more predictable, hence the 5-6 yards vs. 8-10 yards. Just a theory, and this doesn't even take into account the advantages of lofting vs. a traditional 6-to-12 swing. I still contend this isn't cheating or an exploit, rather it's taking advantage of a very flawed game (which could be some people's definition of an exploit, btw). And that's fine, nobody expects any players to adjust their swings now that the cat's out of the bag. But please stop saying that it's not an advantage. When a player's main strategy is to swing crooked, that's an HB issue all the way.
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Post by GW_Hope on Feb 20, 2020 13:57:55 GMT -5
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Post by Doyley on Feb 20, 2020 14:03:14 GMT -5
Having never tried it before until this week - here's my views on it
1. It's pretty easy to do OK - probably a bit tougher to do well/consistent - I've already shot a 58 with it quite effortlessly
2. Given a choice between trying to hit a straightish shot or the purpose miss on a 230 yard approach shot into a par 5 with water on the left - 100 times out of 100 I would do the purpose miss after my few rounds of testing 3. Lofting is much easier since the thin cone means nothing to the push/pull user - you are accurate no matter how much loft you use
To put it visually - view the attachment
The blue line is (poorly drawn...) is what I'm trying to hit to get my ball to go where I aim. By switching to the push/pull method - I'm getting similar (in most cases better) accuracy by wildly throwing my downswing into the red area. Makes very little difference if I'm hugging the blue cone or half way to the far right. 5 pixels right or 5 pixels left of dead center is a huge difference compared to 5 pixels left/right of any point in that red shaded area.
Don't even get me started on how much better my tempo seems to be with a pull swing (Lefty) compared to straight up/down. It's not perfect but I feel like I hit tempo 90+% of the time there where as my normal swing is closer to 70%. That's a tinfoil hat discussion for another day lol.
Attachments:
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Post by GW_Hope on Feb 20, 2020 14:06:28 GMT -5
Tempo is easier because you don’t have to worry about your line. Your (most everybody) brain can only do one thing good at a time
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Post by Doyley on Feb 20, 2020 14:09:57 GMT -5
Forgot to mention the game really makes this method easy too as it scales the aim circle perfectly up through the clubs.
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Post by fadgewacker on Feb 20, 2020 14:26:23 GMT -5
I'm not sure why you think this is off topic. I presume he's saying that if we're comparing things to real life (as an argument why the push swing is unrealistic), then look, here's some amazing golfers with wonky swings, just like in our game. Rebuttal: Yeah, but they are the exception rather than the rule. The reason why you don't see many wonky swings on the real PGA is that you have to be extremely talented to overcome a wonky swing, and have to be extremely precise all the time, no room for error. Whereas in this game, a wonky swing is rewarded. He repeats that wonky swing - in TGC2019 people that miss the cone don't have to repeat the same swing - there's a wider margin for error coupled with the fact they don't have to worry about missing the opposite direction.
Now if that wonky swing was all of a sudden set as their "normal" and they miss that wonky swing left/right and is punished similarly as the people trying to hit straight up/down - then all our problems are solved. Basically if everyone got their ideal custom/comfortable swing (say by going to the range and taking 20 swings and picking your 10 best to average out your ideal swing) and any deviation from that resulted in similar misses we'd be off and running.
Like an angularly adjustable swing channel... that’d do it. Was thinking that earlier. Either calibrate it at the range or set it manually pre round.
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Post by unclevirt on Feb 20, 2020 14:33:43 GMT -5
He repeats that wonky swing - in TGC2019 people that miss the cone don't have to repeat the same swing - there's a wider margin for error coupled with the fact they don't have to worry about missing the opposite direction.
Now if that wonky swing was all of a sudden set as their "normal" and they miss that wonky swing left/right and is punished similarly as the people trying to hit straight up/down - then all our problems are solved. Basically if everyone got their ideal custom/comfortable swing (say by going to the range and taking 20 swings and picking your 10 best to average out your ideal swing) and any deviation from that resulted in similar misses we'd be off and running.
Like an angularly adjustable swing channel... that’d do it. Was thinking that earlier. Either calibrate it at the range or set it manually pre round. I think that's a really good idea. I'm not sure if it would ever happen but I really like the idea. I've constantly said that part of the reason I swing the way I do is because of comfort.
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Post by Demonondalinks on Feb 20, 2020 14:50:48 GMT -5
As a person who plays on the Xbox i'm not totally understanding this discussion. If i play a slight push i can get a perfect DS 70% of the time. When I hit down the middle of cone I will get a fast around 50% rate. It's a complete crapshoot as to what will happen. Then when you try to get a little extra oomph with a fast it will register with a slow. With that said I still do have a +28 hdcp. I still find the game to be very challenging even though the inconsistent gameplay can be a bit bewildering.
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Post by ohheycat on Feb 20, 2020 15:20:01 GMT -5
I totally disagree that it is an advantage. Is it true that you cant pull a shot? Absolutely. But since you arent trying to hit where you are aiming thats irrelevent. You can still miss left, the equivalent of a pull, although it is merely a smaller push when compared to the aiming circle which again, is irrelevent in this scenerio.
Just play the game.
Or dont (like me)
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