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Post by paulus on Aug 6, 2019 13:40:33 GMT -5
Lol - I see there's a Brexit-like margin for the enforced Pro-clubs question... happy times ahead  |
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Post by zzfr33b1rdzz on Aug 6, 2019 15:52:05 GMT -5
Lol - I see there's a Brexit-like margin for the enforced Pro-clubs question... happy times ahead Too close to call! LOL, so leave it alone! |
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Post by boffo on Aug 6, 2019 17:33:05 GMT -5
Lol - I see there's a Brexit-like margin for the enforced Pro-clubs question... happy times ahead I picked it mostly because I assumed not many people would. Turns out one vote came fairly close to making a difference in this case(not that winning this poll means a change is now guaranteed). |
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Post by lions67 on Aug 8, 2019 11:28:57 GMT -5
So SO CLOSE!!
Well, I will happily follow the final choice.
Great survey!
Too bad just over a 1000 people took part it in though.
But like the old saying goes, if you don’t vote, then can’t complain!
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Post by grinder12000 on Aug 12, 2019 7:05:07 GMT -5
It does not matter how close it was. It won’t happen unless there is a CLEAR winner and there was not. I can’t see making a radical change that would really hurt TGC because of a 51/49 like poll.
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Post by grinder12000 on Aug 12, 2019 7:12:30 GMT -5
Speaking of using handicaps. I have 2 accounts on the software. One account I use ONLY for TGCTours and the other one is for Master club up only. The problem with handicap is this.
I switched to master only 20+ rounds ago and the difference between players is 5 strokes. The reason is the TGCTours guy plays only 5 different courses to create his handicap while the other nonTGCTour player plays maybe 14 different courses.
The more courses you play the lower handicap. Too easy to manipulate your handicap
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 12, 2019 7:28:08 GMT -5
Speaking of using handicaps. I have 2 accounts on the software. One account I use ONLY for TGCTours and the other one is for Master club up only. The problem with handicap is this. I switched to master only 20+ rounds ago and the difference between players is 5 strokes. The reason is the TGCTours guy plays only 5 different courses to create his handicap while the other nonTGCTour player plays maybe 14 different courses. The more courses you play the lower handicap. Too easy to manipulate your handicap It was exactly my thought. Too easy to manipulate it. If we have already people ready to use a shameful swing to compete..just imagine what they could do with an handicap based system. I think there's no chance to see this implemented. I'm always more convinced we'll see or two splitter tours (by clubs) or no changes. And, as you said some post ago, we could never switch to mandatory pro clubs with a so little majority. (no counting the fact that a lot of those "yes" for the change, were said with a big "IF" or a "BUT", probably accepting the change simply as the minor evil, in some way). I still think that no one could really wish an easier tour. All we wants just more fairness and equity in the competition between systems. But... |
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Post by grinder12000 on Aug 12, 2019 7:40:49 GMT -5
All I want are more chances for demo or promo points. Sort of a boring season for me. But that has been documented. LOL. Maybe my permanent switch to MASTER will make me less predictable.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 12, 2019 7:43:13 GMT -5
All I want are more chances for demo or promo points. Sort of a boring season for me. But that has been documented. LOL.  |
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Post by Giraffe72 on Aug 14, 2019 4:51:55 GMT -5
So I've been thinking about it, and here's what I would do if I was in charge around here. Which I'm not so I'm just one voice out of a couple of thousand, but I thought I'd share anyway.  Masters or Pro ClubsClearly a divisive issue and if you force Pro to even things up then it's likely going to hit participation on these tours quite significantly. Nobody wants that so we've got to try and find a way to keep everyone happy. In the Challenge Circuit I think the change they made half way through this season was perfect. No need to physically split the tours, you can play whichever your preferred club set is and the top X from each club set earns promotion marks. The problem comes when people who don't want to play Masters clubs get promoted from CCA, there's nowhere to go. Would it be possible to split Web in to two separate divisions, call them what you want but for now I'll go with Web A and Web B? Web A is Masters only and works just as it does now, demotion to CCA or promotion to the Euro Tour. Web B is Pro clubs only and kind of becomes a Pro clubs Premier League, officially a Pro Tour with Majors and all the rest of it. There would have to be some level of commitment to which path you wanted to choose because you wouldn't want people hopping backwards and forwards every other week. Make your initial choice after promotion from CCA and then maybe open two or three windows through the season where you could opt for the other side if you wished to? Euro and PGA stay exactly as they are, Masters only and you can only get there from Web A. Promotion/Demotion LogicIn my view the balance between gaining and losing both promotion and demotion marks is currently a bit out. I'm a good example myself! In the Euro Tour I've played 5 events, had one 68th placed finish and missed the other 4 cuts but I currently have zero demotion marks. Seems like with that record I should probably have some? I know the idea was for people to develop rivalries with others on their Tour and in that sense it's worked, but my feeling is that particularly in the Challenge Circuit people are more motivated by trying to get to the next level. Grinder likes a moan (   ) but he has a point on this, it's very easy to get stuck with no real hope of going up or down. If you're going to leave it as 5 marks to move either way, Pro Tours I'd change it to this: Winner +3 promo marks Top 5 +2 Top 20 +1 Missed cut +1 demotion mark, end of! Not this no mans land of finishing 90th and nothing happening! Outside the top 120 +2 demotion marks. Will only really come in to play when the tour is quite full. If you already have promotion marks, same as above. If you already have demotion marks: Make the cut +1 Top 20 +2 (currently no real reward for doing well if you have a red mark) Winner +3 In the Challenge Circuit it depends on whether they introduce cuts and where that line would be (top 100?), but I would follow very similar logic to the above with allowance made for the higher numbers and the fact there's two different club sets. For me this would be a fairer way of giving out the red and green marks. If you're making less than 50% of cuts you will probably end up getting demoted, unlike now where it's quite easy to get stuck missing cuts but going nowhere. Similarly you are more properly rewarded for a top finish, making the top 10 in these fields at any level is quite an achievement and right now you don't get a lot for it. With people being better rewarded for good finishes you could also do away with the Promotion Events if you wanted to, which although have been fun I'm not sure have had a good effect on the tours. These are just my ideas which I'm putting out there. These tours have always been excellently run and a lot of fun to participate in, I doubt I'll be throwing my toys out the pram no matter what is decided. I'll shut up now |
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Post by wellsa27 on Aug 14, 2019 5:09:39 GMT -5
So I've been thinking about it, and here's what I would do if I was in charge around here. Which I'm not so I'm just one voice out of a couple of thousand, but I thought I'd share anyway. Masters or Pro ClubsClearly a divisive issue and if you force Pro to even things up then it's likely going to hit participation on these tours quite significantly. Nobody wants that so we've got to try and find a way to keep everyone happy. In the Challenge Circuit I think the change they made half way through this season was perfect. No need to physically split the tours, you can play whichever your preferred club set is and the top X from each club set earns promotion marks. The problem comes when people who don't want to play Masters clubs get promoted from CCA, there's nowhere to go. Would it be possible to split Web in to two separate divisions, call them what you want but for now I'll go with Web A and Web B? Web A is Masters only and works just as it does now, demotion to CCA or promotion to the Euro Tour. Web B is Pro clubs only and kind of becomes a Pro clubs Premier League, officially a Pro Tour with Majors and all the rest of it. There would have to be some level of commitment to which path you wanted to choose because you wouldn't want people hopping backwards and forwards every other week. Make your initial choice after promotion from CCA and then maybe open two or three windows through the season where you could opt for the other side if you wished to? Euro and PGA stay exactly as they are, Masters only and you can only get there from Web A. Promotion/Demotion LogicIn my view the balance between gaining and losing both promotion and demotion marks is currently a bit out. I'm a good example myself! In the Euro Tour I've played 5 events, had one 68th placed finish and missed the other 4 cuts but I currently have zero demotion marks. Seems like with that record I should probably have some? I know the idea was for people to develop rivalries with others on their Tour and in that sense it's worked, but my feeling is that particularly in the Challenge Circuit people are more motivated by trying to get to the next level. Grinder likes a moan ( ) but he has a point on this, it's very easy to get stuck with no real hope of going up or down. If you're going to leave it as 5 marks to move either way, Pro Tours I'd change it to this: Winner +3 promo marks Top 5 +2 Top 20 +1 Missed cut +1 demotion mark, end of! Not this no mans land of finishing 90th and nothing happening! Outside the top 120 +2 demotion marks. Will only really come in to play when the tour is quite full. If you already have promotion marks, same as above. If you already have demotion marks: Make the cut +1 Top 20 +2 (currently no real reward for doing well if you have a red mark) Winner +3 In the Challenge Circuit it depends on whether they introduce cuts and where that line would be (top 100?), but I would follow very similar logic to the above with allowance made for the higher numbers and the fact there's two different club sets. For me this would be a fairer way of giving out the red and green marks. If you're making less than 50% of cuts you will probably end up getting demoted, unlike now where it's quite easy to get stuck missing cuts but going nowhere. Similarly you are more properly rewarded for a top finish, making the top 10 in these fields at any level is quite an achievement and right now you don't get a lot for it. With people being better rewarded for good finishes you could also do away with the Promotion Events if you wanted too, which although have been fun I'm not sure have had a good effect on the tours. These are just my ideas which I'm putting out there. These tours have always been excellently run and a lot of fun to participate in, I doubt I'll be throwing my toys out the pram no matter what is decided. I'll shut up now I like your logic here, and certainly is a plausible one to implement or tweak.
My biggest gripe is the CC division, of which I'm in. It's so tough to get out of unless you A)win or B)promotion events. There needs to be a way of improving, not making it too easy but also a system to help xbox users.
The way they have set it out works, but still favours the PS4 master users.
Again going to use the stats they've now provided.
In CC-B, I'm currently 12th best Master user after 2 rounds overall. Select the Xbox tab and I'm now 4th. Now this may fluctuate before the round closes but I could end up missing out on a mark, but on xbox I might be near the top.
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Post by Giraffe72 on Aug 14, 2019 5:17:12 GMT -5
Problem is wellsa27, if you favour one console over another then you might as well just split the tours by console. That's the one thing I definitely DON'T want to see. If you're better rewarded for a good finish that would help XB users enough. Apart from that, to coin a well used phrase, it is what it is! These tours don't favour PS4 players, it's the game that does that. |
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 14, 2019 5:29:15 GMT -5
Giraffe72 good point and interesting solutions. My only perplexity about the cut is that it should work without the Wednesday time limit, cause is probable that a lot of cc players are not so involved as pro players are. And considering that cc should be the most inclusive flight of this tour, probably a lot of people would see this limit as a problem. But a cut system stays a great idea, in my opinion. About the promo mark system, i like how things works now, the change has been a beautiful move, so now for me the only changeable thing could be that the first 10 (or 5, or 8, admins should think a bit about the exact number) could receive 2 promo mark instead than 1. No matter if you have some promo/demo mark, I mean. It should work the same for all. This could solve also the problem of those players with a demo mark that, after 3 rounds, are in fact sure to be in top 100. We could give them something to fight for, if they plays really well, with no need to give to them a double prize for a top 20, something that it seems a bit too easy to obtain..and only cause they have some demo mark to clean. It would be wrong, for me. About the demo mark system, maybe it could be corrected in the shape of the system implemented for the promo mark, based on the clubs used, I mean. But honestly I don't know if and how it could be organized. Edit : I forgot to say that, at the same time, I think that a top 100 to clean up a demo mark is a bit too easy. Maybe it would be better to need a top 50, to clean up that mark.
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Post by sandsaver01 on Aug 14, 2019 7:22:28 GMT -5
So I've been thinking about it, and here's what I would do if I was in charge around here. Which I'm not so I'm just one voice out of a couple of thousand, but I thought I'd share anyway. I really like Giraffes ideas on this issue (I did not include the whole quote for space issues) and I just wanted to be a +1 thumbs up. I also might like to see a cut implemented on CC, but I would like to see a poll on that. |
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Post by Art Vandelay on Aug 14, 2019 7:46:47 GMT -5
So I've been thinking about it, and here's what I would do if I was in charge around here. Which I'm not so I'm just one voice out of a couple of thousand, but I thought I'd share anyway. I really like Giraffes ideas on this issue (I did not include the whole quote for space issues) and I just wanted to be a +1 thumbs up. I also might like to see a cut implemented on CC, but I would like to see a poll on that. The survey did poll on CC cut issue |
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) but he has a point on this, it's very easy to get stuck with no real hope of going up or down.
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