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Post by rcar1046 on Aug 3, 2019 18:28:25 GMT -5
Master clubs good
Pro clubs bad
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Post by Brighttail on Aug 3, 2019 23:56:27 GMT -5
It would be real interesting if the admin came up with a formula that took into account:
1. Average 3-5 tournaments
2. Average deviation from center
Ideally the better people in higher tournaments will play better and hit straighter overall. Group them together! Hell you could make it season average.
Top 30-40 are now in WGT. Take the next 90 or so put them in the PGA.
Those that have had 3 API pulls, pull them out of their league and put them on a tour where they can play only with the others pulled. They can do whatever they want. Call em the flickers tour or something and let them play however the heck they want. They get no points and we can all observe these people as they try to figure out their game to get where their API can pass for 4 or 5 weeks in a row. And if they get back and get pulled within a month or two? Back they go in their special tour with their 3-10 friends and they can stay there another 2-3 months. They don't get to play in WGC or majors either.
Simple plan. He'll I'll even help the admin write the guidelines!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 9:54:42 GMT -5
It would be real interesting if the admin came up with a formula that took into account: 1. Average 3-5 tournaments 2. Average deviation from center Ideally the better people in higher tournaments will play better and hit straighter overall. Group them together! Hell you could make it season average. Top 30-40 are now in WGT. Take the next 90 or so put them in the PGA. Those that have had 3 API pulls, pull them out of their league and put them on a tour where they can play only with the others pulled. They can do whatever they want. Call em the flickers tour or something and let them play however the heck they want. They get no points and we can all observe these people as they try to figure out their game to get where their API can pass for 4 or 5 weeks in a row. And if they get back and get pulled within a month or two? Back they go in their special tour with their 3-10 friends and they can stay there another 2-3 months. They don't get to play in WGC or majors either. Simple plan. He'll I'll even help the admin write the guidelines! What about the flickers that haven't failed the API or those that hit at a 7 to 1 o'clock swing? I don't think its as simple as you'd think. |
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Post by Brighttail on Aug 4, 2019 11:35:54 GMT -5
It would be real interesting if the admin came up with a formula that took into account: 1. Average 3-5 tournaments 2. Average deviation from center Ideally the better people in higher tournaments will play better and hit straighter overall. Group them together! Hell you could make it season average. Top 30-40 are now in WGT. Take the next 90 or so put them in the PGA. Those that have had 3 API pulls, pull them out of their league and put them on a tour where they can play only with the others pulled. They can do whatever they want. Call em the flickers tour or something and let them play however the heck they want. They get no points and we can all observe these people as they try to figure out their game to get where their API can pass for 4 or 5 weeks in a row. And if they get back and get pulled within a month or two? Back they go in their special tour with their 3-10 friends and they can stay there another 2-3 months. They don't get to play in WGC or majors either. Simple plan. He'll I'll even help the admin write the guidelines! What about the flickers that haven't failed the API or those that hit at a 7 to 1 o'clock swing? I don't think its as simple as you'd think. If they have that type if dispersment, admin can see that and put them in whatever league they think is appropriate. |
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Post by Doyley on Aug 4, 2019 14:28:57 GMT -5
Going to shut this down around Tuesday - if you haven't responded please take a few minutes to do so now thx!
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 5, 2019 2:36:21 GMT -5
You don't need to repeat this - it's redundant opinion - everyone both side of the debate is looking to have fun. For some, they feel the fun is spoiled when everyone is not competing on a level playing field. How much they feel the fun is reduced, varies from individual to individual it seems. Ya, I get it.. Has any thought been put into using a HCP system? If there's is a disparity of scores between the systems, then wouldn't HCP help to level the field? Not sure how much more work this would be for the admins, food for thought.. I was thinking about the same type of solution. It could works flawlessly, but there could be only one problem if we should Implement an hcp based score : What could happens if someone starts to play bad outside the tour just to keep his handicap worst than his real skills? I mean..i honestly don't know exactly how hcp affects the scores, but for example, now i have an hcp of +28,9. If i play really bad a bunch of courses here and there and my handicap became +15 or something like this, then my score on the tour don't would be a lot better? If the answer is yes, then the cure could be worst than the malady. But yes, this could be a really good solution, without this problem. Talking about this theme, months ago, when I saw the first serious debate on this thing, I proposed to use some kind of "artificial" handicap, possible to realize only on pro tours, probably. I mean to make start on every round, every master clubs player with an handicap of some stroke, based on the system he use (for example, 2 strokes per round for ps4 players, one strokes for PC players and no strokes for Xbox players..something like this I mean). Obviously the idea has been criticized cause no one could ever accept to play being penalized from the start..and I understand this. But we have to admit we have an unsolvable problem. That requires a solution that, in every case, it will cost something to someone. We can only decide to pay the less we can. And looking all the options we have until now, this solution at least could create a bit of fairness between systems, but with no need to have mandatory pro clubs or to split tours. Furthermore, the fact that we have pretty accurate data about the differences between systems, it could allow to calculate a fair enough amount of strokes to build a reliable score system. I understand that it would not be a perfectly mathematic calculations, but at least it would be better than do nothing..or to renounce to something we love. We could use master clubs knowing that nobody has some unfair advantage. Then we still should to solve also the short flickers problem. I think that only the threat of a ban from the tour could work. A definitive ban, I mean. Technically, looking the API data of a player, is possible to understand if he use this technique? Cause if is possible, we could check the API of ten random players between the top 25 per flight, in every flight, on every week, and who use short flick receive a ban. Not for 1-2 weeks, but for ever. Immediately. If I would be a cheater, in the end I should think if is still the case to risk. But I have not idea on how API works, so I don't know if is actually possible to recognize exactly only the real short flickers..someone knows it? |
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Post by theviciousvicar on Aug 5, 2019 5:03:45 GMT -5
I don,t like the idea of using a handicap system, it,s not the fault of the user, it,s the broken software with regards to master clubs that HB never resolved.
So the only club set that offers a level playing field right across the board is Pro, the scores may come down, they might not, I only use master but thought I,d give pro clubs a go in a society event and found I scored worse so quickly went back to master clubs.
I,m for everyone having the same equipment, same chance of winning has the next guy and will go with whatever admin decides to do, but handicaps please no, you can.t blame the user for dodgy software.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 5, 2019 7:36:37 GMT -5
I don,t like the idea of using a handicap system, it,s not the fault of the user, it,s the broken software with regards to master clubs that HB never resolved. So the only club set that offers a level playing field right across the board is Pro, the scores may come down, they might not, I only use master but thought I,d give pro clubs a go in a society event and found I scored worse so quickly went back to master clubs. I,m for everyone having the same equipment, same chance of winning has the next guy and will go with whatever admin decides to do, but handicaps please no, you can.t blame the user for dodgy software. Actually, I agree 100% with you. And I agree that to switch all of us to pro clubs could solve a lot of problems. Selfishly, i probably would choose this solution. But I'm fully aware that it would be a really sad solution. Really sad. The game should be harder at the highest level..and with no master clubs this thing would be lost. And you're absolutely right, the game is broken on this side and is nobody fault if we suffer this situation. We are in a cul-de-sac and there's not an easy solution. I proposed this pretty stupid thing about some kind of handicap score just to explore every chance, but I absolutely know that no one could ever accept it. And as I said, even if I could agree to play with some stroke of handicap, I absolutely understand why almost any other player would never agree. And when you said that is unfair to "punish" the ps4 players, you're right again. But please trust me if I say that my point is not to punish someone. And there's a thing that I wish to point out, about this. As I said some post ago, i'm a PC player, but i had the chance to play this game also on the ps4 of my little bro, some time ago. And I don't know if you tried to play the game in a PC, but please trust me when i say that when i used master clubs on ps4, i faced the same difficulty level that I face normally playing with pro clubs on PC. If you have the chance try it. You would be shocked. All this just to say that yes, it would be unfair to penalize ps4 players, but is unfair also that ps4 players plays almost another game, in fact. And also PC players, looking at who plays on Xbox (although I never tried it, but I trust the data and the players). And obviously this is not fault of ps4 players or of someone else..is just a fact. I wish just to solve these two problems. But the truth is that every solution will requires some price. I really don't envy our admins. It will be tough. But we MUST to do something, Xbox players are a huge % of our players. And if we solve these two issues we have now, in some way, then we could have a fantastic game. |
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Post by zzfr33b1rdzz on Aug 5, 2019 9:31:30 GMT -5
So what determines 'broken'? Because one cannot shoot -18 every round? I use XB and masters. This week's tournament I played 2 CC-E rounds and scored -7, -7 - I think that is a good score for me in CC-E. So I don't think XB is broken, though I have to mention I have a LOT of hours into the game playing with these clubs, so naturally I've gotten better with them. When season started, just after HB did the swing tuning update on their server, I struggled with the clubs, where E or -1 were my scores, so I, like everyone else complained that they broke XB. But I stuck with it because I also saw some higher ranked XB players still scoring well with the master clubs so I thought maybe it was actually me not being very good and not actually a broken system. I think many people expect to shoot good right away and when they don't, they switch clubs, not putting in the time to master the highest difficulty, well, then they would never get better using those clubs. I would leave everything alone except maybe adjust at what point demo marks are given as the current system seems harder to get a promotion mark, but easy to lose them. This is all just my opinion, please don't get out the torches!  |
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Post by xEB50x on Aug 5, 2019 10:57:49 GMT -5
The current system in place is fine imo. I would just add platform filters to the WGR, fed-ex, and money lists. Then give the top 10 in each platform outside of the top qualifying players auto entrance into the majors and big events. There should be a reward for being top 10 on XB1 and PC when it comes to Majors and WGC events, and these platforms should be recognized in the Major fields.
I would have a serious problem with Pro clubs on the Pro tours, and really hope this never happens. For all we know it will be PS4 that gets shafted when the new game comes out sometime in the future. TGCT is great as it is on the Pro tours. I can understand some tinkering with the promotion system in the CC circuit.
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Post by Airik3333 on Aug 5, 2019 11:01:57 GMT -5
The current system in place is fine imo. I would just add platform filters to the WGR, fed-ex, and money lists. Then give the top 10 in each platform outside of the top qualifying players auto entrance into the majors and big events. There should be a reward for being top 10 on XB1 and PC when it comes to Majors and WGC events, and these platforms should be recognized in the Major fields. I would have a serious problem with Pro clubs on the Pro tours, and really hope this never happens. For all we know it will be PS4 that gets shafted when the new game comes out sometime in the future. TGCT is great as it is on the Pro tours. I can understand some tinkering with the promotion system in the CC circuit. If the PS4 gets the shaft next time - I will play it on PC  I suck so I need all the help I can get.. |
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Post by wellsa27 on Aug 5, 2019 14:32:04 GMT -5
As previously mentioned we cannot have pro clubs across the elite tours, it just wouldn't be right.
The promotion system across the tours needs addressing, and a fair number of marks across ps4/xbox/pc each week especially now can split by system and clubs.
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Post by Giraffe72 on Aug 6, 2019 7:39:10 GMT -5
As previously mentioned we cannot have pro clubs across the elite tours, it just wouldn't be right. The promotion system across the tours needs addressing, and a fair number of marks across ps4/xbox/pc each week especially now can split by system and clubs. The problem with that is you'll get people promoting artificially to a level that's too high. I wish I'd made Web instead of Euro in that last event, one cut from five so far, and I finished 68th in that one! Point is the playing field gets less level the higher you go. I'll keep plugging away but competing against very good players with an easier tempo is tough. Overall I think the system is pretty good as it is. A few little tweaks to the dishing out of promo and demo marks wouldn't go amiss. One example, if you have demo marks it makes no difference if you finish 2nd or 99th (70th in the Pro Tours), you just lose one mark. Not much reward for a top ten finish in these fields! It's hard to gain promo marks but very easy to lose them, and conversely it's relatively easy to wipe demo marks. Means a lot of people kind of get stuck. But maybe that just means they're where they should be? |
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Post by wellsa27 on Aug 6, 2019 7:50:30 GMT -5
As previously mentioned we cannot have pro clubs across the elite tours, it just wouldn't be right. The promotion system across the tours needs addressing, and a fair number of marks across ps4/xbox/pc each week especially now can split by system and clubs. The problem with that is you'll get people promoting artificially to a level that's too high. I wish I'd made Web instead of Euro in that last event, one cut from five so far, and I finished 68th in that one! Point is the playing field gets less level the higher you go. I'll keep plugging away but competing against very good players with an easier tempo is tough. Overall I think the system is pretty good as it is. A few little tweaks to the dishing out of promo and demo marks wouldn't go amiss. One example, if you have demo marks it makes no difference if you finish 2nd or 99th (70th in the Pro Tours), you just lose one mark. Not much reward for a top ten finish in these fields! It's hard to gain promo marks but very easy to lose them, and conversely it's relatively easy to wipe demo marks. Means a lot of people kind of get stuck. But maybe that just means they're where they should be? I know it's not so simple as what I mentioned, but something is worth a try.
I think I'm web at best, but just find it near impossible to gain constant marks with the xbox masters, that's the issue. Again, I know it's a site known fact, so I'm hoping for a bit more separating of marks for the master clubs users, in the CC tours that is.
Once you're into the elite, then it should be difficult to move up as that's where the pro's are.
Just spit balling as would like a fairer playing field. I suspect it only needs a tweak.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 6, 2019 8:25:44 GMT -5
So what determines 'broken'? Because one cannot shoot -18 every round? I use XB and masters. This week's tournament I played 2 CC-E rounds and scored -7, -7 - I think that is a good score for me in CC-E. So I don't think XB is broken, though I have to mention I have a LOT of hours into the game playing with these clubs, so naturally I've gotten better with them. When season started, just after HB did the swing tuning update on their server, I struggled with the clubs, where E or -1 were my scores, so I, like everyone else complained that they broke XB. But I stuck with it because I also saw some higher ranked XB players still scoring well with the master clubs so I thought maybe it was actually me not being very good and not actually a broken system. I think many people expect to shoot good right away and when they don't, they switch clubs, not putting in the time to master the highest difficulty, well, then they would never get better using those clubs. I would leave everything alone except maybe adjust at what point demo marks are given as the current system seems harder to get a promotion mark, but easy to lose them. This is all just my opinion, please don't get out the torches! Anyway, for the little it could matters and just to be precise, when I say "broken", personally i talk simply about the huge amount of random super slow/fast swing that PC and (mainly) Xbox players are suffering. Not else. On any other side, I absolutely agree with you and I'm super happy with the idea to play a tough game, at least using master clubs, in which every error of evaluation ir execution is in some way always punished. Is this the main reason why it would be so sad to have mandatory pro clubs for all the tour. I'm also fully aware and sure that, without this issue about super slow/fast swing, this would be by far the bast mechanic I ever saw in a golf game. And, to be fully honest, is exactly cause I like the idea to play a game in which it should be uneasy to score too low scores, that I would like to see ( and suggested to implement, in some other thread) even some little change in the setup, at least on the two best pro tours. Harder is the challenge, greater is the satisfaction when you realize that you are good enough to deal with. And as a PC player, honestly I can't complain too much with the game, even with master clubs I don't suffer too much the random slow/fast. I'm just sad cause I see that for Xbox players things are really different. And yes, we can change something here and there on the lower flights to help Xbox players to have a fairer promo/demo mark system, but I would to see the best Xbox players to have the chance to compete for the win in every flight and every tournament. Is this that sadly seems to be unsolvable. And for this reason I'm also full of admiration about the attitude of all those Xbox players who wants in any case embrace the challenge, even if is not totally fair for them. And I'm proud to have the chance to compete with guys who shows this attitude. And is for this that I really wish to see this attitude rewarded, in some way. |
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I suck so I need all the help I can get.. 
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