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Post by Brionne on Feb 21, 2015 9:58:57 GMT -5
I've just completed the flights handicap tourney on PC..
Started with +11 handicap for all four rounds.. Which relates to a +44..
Scored -44 to come out at Even Par..
Trying to win a tournament with a 44 stroke penalty to begin with would be impossible.
Let's not even get into how easy it would be to sandbag your handicap.
If someone came along and scored -1 total after 4 rounds, with a +1 handicap, that would be completely unfair.. What incentive would the top guys have to play again?
Handicap system can never work
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Post by Brighttail on Feb 21, 2015 10:58:41 GMT -5
Handicap systems are never fair to scratch golfers, which is why the Pro tours do not use them. They are more meant for local clubs where people who aren't scratch golfers play.
It is rare you see a handicap system where you have to birdie a hole or you are considered OVER. Most systems you get to get to subtract a shot from the hardest holes, not add a shot to the easier ones.
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Post by mcbogga on Feb 21, 2015 11:50:01 GMT -5
Handicap systems are never fair to scratch golfers, which is why the Pro tours do not use them. They are more meant for local clubs where people who aren't scratch golfers play. It is rare you see a handicap system where you have to birdie a hole or you are considered OVER. Most systems you get to get to subtract a shot from the hardest holes, not add a shot to the easier ones. No - the pro tours do not employ handicaps because a handicap completion does not determine the most skilled competitor in the field and is in fact a type of lottery. Has nothing to do with fairness. System could be the absolute definition of fairness and there would still be no reason employing it as by doing so the competition loses all interest for anyone that is not in it. Actually lower handicap players ARE favored in the handicap system due to the 0.96 coefficient. In a handicap completion where they play high handicaps they are still at a disadvantage to win due to score variability, but it is not as clear cut as you make it out to be. The TGC implementation as far as I know works exactly as the USGA system - in which plus handicaps that have to add shots will add these shots on the highest index holes. I don't think we should call the most used handicap system in the world "rare", maybe. In either case - usually when you get down to a low single digit handicap, handicap is actually not something you think about anymore... |
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Post by Niborak/JohnDaddyo on Feb 21, 2015 11:51:41 GMT -5
"Yes. I understand there is a gap. It's sports. A competition. There is supposed to be a gap. It separates the winners and losers. That's the entire point.t of being in a competition."
Nevada, while I'm fairly certain you post was not meant to support my mine, you repeated almost verbatim what I was trying to get across.
You ever have a conversation with an idiot who says "screw the homeless. That's their own tough s#*t. They never tried! Get a job! You're lazy!"
In one of my posts I said something about golf being a gentlemen's game. The last thing I'm going to do is embarrass myself by taking snide, subtle shots at a fellow competitor.
"That's a quite defeatist look on life you got there. Bud... " You either get it or you don't, and you clearly don't.
Assuming you meant "Bud" in the most sincere way, I'm sorry but, you're no bud of mine. Most folks disdain those who use a forum to throw digs and jabs at others. Your credibility would've have gone a long way had you only asked for explanation.
you said your piece, I said mine. Let's not clog the thread.
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Post by mcbogga on Feb 21, 2015 12:20:23 GMT -5
The "bud" comment was from me, not Nevada...
Sorry if I offended you, and I may have misunderstood your point. But the homeless comment above makes me think that maybe I didn't. Anyway, no reason taking this any further as I don't think we will find any common ground.
Just know that you are capable of much more than you think you are.
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Post by Niborak/JohnDaddyo on Feb 21, 2015 13:09:57 GMT -5
hey Rhythm, and my post was not directed at you!  This part is not meant for you either! When folks only think of themselves, it's harder to see the big picture. Pretty amazing this had to be explained so many times. I'm exhausted |
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Post by nevadaballin on Feb 21, 2015 16:21:28 GMT -5
"Yes. I understand there is a gap. It's sports. A competition. There is supposed to be a gap. It separates the winners and losers. That's the entire point.t of being in a competition." Nevada, while I'm fairly certain you post was not meant to support my mine, you repeated almost verbatim what I was trying to get across. You ever have a conversation with an idiot who says "screw the homeless. That's their own tough s#*t. They never tried! Get a job! You're lazy!" In one of my posts I said something about golf being a gentlemen's game. The last thing I'm going to do is embarrass myself by taking snide, subtle shots at a fellow competitor. " That's a quite defeatist look on life you got there. Bud... " You either get it or you don't, and you clearly don't. Assuming you meant " Bud" in the most sincere way, I'm sorry but, you're no bud of mine. Most folks disdain those who use a forum to throw digs and jabs at others. Your credibility would've have gone a long way had you only asked for explanation. you said your piece, I said mine. Let's not clog the thread. First, i didn't say anything about having a defeatist look, that was someone else. Second, nothing I said was verbatim (word for word) to your comments, especially when you believe practicing is worthless and I believe it has a ton of worth. The only worse players who remain worse are those who do not practice. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 22:00:47 GMT -5
If practice was worthless, pro sports would not exist as there would not be enough fans to support such garbage teams and players, especially in individual sports like golf.
"Wonder if tiger is gunna break 100 today, he stands a good chance at winning if he does!"
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IlludiumQ36
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 122 
TGCT Name: Tom Morgan
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Post by IlludiumQ36 on Feb 22, 2015 13:35:07 GMT -5
This is going to sound arrogant, and I really don't mean it to, but all this complaining about high scores from people who aren't even making consistent cuts in their respective tours reeks of sour grapes, not a genuine desire to see the game become more sim-like in execution. When I hear someone like Doyley, Lillico, or Harris make these assertions, I'll listen - because I know the level of their play and how much they practice. When I hear it from people outside the top 100, it tells me you'd rather bring the field back to your game, not elevate your own.
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Post by Matt10 on Feb 22, 2015 15:51:27 GMT -5
This is going to sound arrogant, and I really don't mean it to, but all this complaining about high scores from people who aren't even making consistent cuts in their respective tours reeks of sour grapes, not a genuine desire to see the game become more sim-like in execution. When I hear someone like Doyley, Lillico, or Harris make these assertions, I'll listen - because I know the level of their play and how much they practice. When I hear it from people outside the top 100, it tells me you'd rather bring the field back to your game, not elevate your own. Could not disagree more. You should read the entire thread and see that there are some quality posts from those of us who just want a slightly more sim experience. Put it this way, when you have to start forcing course designers to make holes ridiculously harder...you know there's an issue with the core of the game. The OP asked for the easiest way to raise scores, some of us brought up what is in our control, some of us did not. I think we're a more grown up group than to have hissy fits if we're not producing. To me, using aides shows no skill whatsoever to play the game. You're basically getting everything you want, on a platter, and moving your thumb up...then down. The skill is from guys like Doylev who have shown that you can play decent, realistic, golf, with minimal aides on. I know there are plenty of us that just don't use the aides, but it'd be real interesting to see how the scores stack up when training wheels are taken off. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 16:21:42 GMT -5
just a thought, and no way I can prove this:
but Im going out on a leg and saying it anyways,
take the top 100 players in the WGC, look at each of their total rounds played on TGC for their career, and then look at the rest of the field in the same light, then you will see why the top players are sitting up where they are for the most part, and the bottom players where they are, for the most part, sure there will be exceptions along the way, like a player who is new but really understands what the deal is, or a player who has been here since day one and still struggles with the fundamentals.
the best way to even the field, is for everyone to simply play more, practice more, learn more, and get better over time.
if we all played this tour for the next 5 years on a regular basis, id be willing to bet the PGA top to bottom would be a powerhouse of top players, where the cut line could be missed by anyone week in and week out.
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Post by TROWELHEAD on Feb 22, 2015 17:42:37 GMT -5
Put simply 'fail to prepare prepare to fail ' failing that wind wait lol
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Post by Niborak/JohnDaddyo on Feb 22, 2015 21:09:31 GMT -5
Unfortunately, someone else's words and thoughts can be misconstrued to seemingly win an arguement. In that process, the point of what I happened to say fell victim to this 'practice' (LoL) this time. To attempt to give credibility and possibly help fan flames, you relayed my post completely wrong. Again, rather than ask me exactly, Hey Golfer, I'm confused, what do you mean? You are stating that I said or even think tha practice is useless! That's funny but sad as well. I never said or implied that. I hate using extremes as examples but, I will. I'll try again to explain a simple, worldly understood fact. No matter how hard let's say Ricky Fowler practices, he will never be as good as Jack Nicklaus. Never did I say, therefore, he should not practice. Sorry. Not because he doesn't try but, let's be real. Nicklaus was great because of many other factors. No matter how hard I try, I'm never going to dunk a basketball. Unless they lower the rim...substantially! This is just the way things are. Pertaining to this game, same applies. As in life, there will always be an elite batch of players. To say that all one has to do is practice and they will become elite too is ludicrous, silly and barely scraping the surface of thought. I cannot believe this simple logic has been so hard to convey. I am sorry for thinking you were the one who said, this or that. I kinda felt like I was dodging and ducking some arrows at the time. I think I'm trying to say there are different factors as to why you or I might be at the top or bottom. I also never said anything about changing the game in any way. At least I hope not  Gentleman's game, right? I don't want to stress anymore about. I can PM you my ph # if you'd like to talk anytime. Anytime let's say withing the next 6 months LoL Seems I've got cancer with the clock ticking |
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Post by Brighttail on Feb 22, 2015 21:27:43 GMT -5
Unfortunately, someone else's words and thoughts can be misconstrued to seemingly win an arguement. In that process, the point of what I happened to say fell victim to this 'practice' (LoL) this time. To attempt to give credibility and possibly help fan flames, you relayed my post completely wrong. Again, rather than ask me exactly, Hey Golfer, I'm confused, what do you mean? You are stating that I said or even think tha practice is useless! That's funny but sad as well. I never said or implied that. I hate using extremes as examples but, I will. I'll try again to explain a simple, worldly understood fact. No matter how hard let's say Ricky Fowler practices, he will never be as good as Jack Nicklaus. Never did I say, therefore, he should not practice. Sorry. Not because he doesn't try but, let's be real. Nicklaus was great because of many other factors. No matter how hard I try, I'm never going to dunk a basketball. Unless they lower the rim...substantially! This is just the way things are. Pertaining to this game, same applies. As in life, there will always be an elite batch of players. To say that all one has to do is practice and they will become elite too is ludicrous, silly and barely scraping the surface of thought. I cannot believe this simple logic has been so hard to convey. I am sorry for thinking you were the one who said, this or that. I kinda felt like I was dodging and ducking some arrows at the time. I think I'm trying to say there are different factors as to why you or I might be at the top or bottom. I also never said anything about changing the game in any way. At least I hope not Gentleman's game, right? I don't want to stress anymore about. I can PM you my ph # if you'd like to talk anytime. Anytime let's say withing the next 6 months LoL Seems I've got cancer with the clock ticking Honestly don't concern yourself on how other people twist your words to make their argument seem valid. Honestly, people troll for the sole purpose to troll, why cause they can! Keep your head up high. |
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Post by Matt10 on Feb 22, 2015 21:29:01 GMT -5
just a thought, and no way I can prove this: but Im going out on a leg and saying it anyways, take the top 100 players in the WGC, look at each of their total rounds played on TGC for their career, and then look at the rest of the field in the same light, then you will see why the top players are sitting up where they are for the most part, and the bottom players where they are, for the most part, sure there will be exceptions along the way, like a player who is new but really understands what the deal is, or a player who has been here since day one and still struggles with the fundamentals. the best way to even the field, is for everyone to simply play more, practice more, learn more, and get better over time. if we all played this tour for the next 5 years on a regular basis, id be willing to bet the PGA top to bottom would be a powerhouse of top players, where the cut line could be missed by anyone week in and week out. The thing is, and I could be wrong, some of us don't care about evening the playing field. Some of us just look at the 50's shooting...and want it to be more realistic. I'd really be curious to see how these top 100 players would play with the green scout on (no landing area) and green grids off. Would they still be just as elite? Who knows. There is too much resistance to ever know, and it's a shame. |
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