|
|
Post by t2theb2 on Feb 17, 2015 22:46:56 GMT -5
An interesting observation ..... we see consider scoring -10 consistently as being a high end player. In Tiger Woods, it was -20. The high end has been cut in half but it's still not good enough? I believe that's pretty damn good, this IS a video game. It has only been cut in half if you played Tiger Woods on the lower levels. You could not shoot -20 on average on simulation mode for sure. I would say the scores are quite similar in the sense i aim for nothing less than with -10 as i did in TW. So it depends a little. Either way as Doyley said a few shots could be took of for sure. The short game could easily be made harder where you can ajust loft without a decline in the distance (similar to 3wood and 5wood). |
|
|
|
Post by Matt10 on Feb 17, 2015 23:45:03 GMT -5
We wanted an easy way, this is the easiest way, right? Just change one or two things - bam, somewhat higher scores, maybe even the 50's will be out, who knows. I think it's worth a shot.
|
|
|
|
Post by Brighttail on Feb 17, 2015 23:58:54 GMT -5
WHile we are at it, lets think of a way to completely demoralize and kill off the high scorers, while mobilizing the lower scorers to make a 45 way tie for first!
|
|
|
|
Post by nevadaballin on Feb 18, 2015 0:10:36 GMT -5
An interesting observation ..... we see consider scoring -10 consistently as being a high end player. In Tiger Woods, it was -20. The high end has been cut in half but it's still not good enough? I believe that's pretty damn good, this IS a video game. It has only been cut in half if you played Tiger Woods on the lower levels. You could not shoot -20 on average on simulation mode for sure. I would say the scores are quite similar in the sense i aim for nothing less than with -10 as i did in TW. So it depends a little. Either way as Doyley said a few shots could be took of for sure. The short game could easily be made harder where you can ajust loft without a decline in the distance (similar to 3wood and 5wood). The comparison is based on like settings. |
|
|
|
Post by nevadaballin on Feb 18, 2015 0:15:13 GMT -5
WHile we are at it, lets think of a way to completely demoralize and kill off the high scorers, while mobilizing the lower scorers to make a 45 way tie for first! yea, i'm not a fan of that. the high scorers will be the high scorers. The real question is, do we want to demoralize even further those who are not high scorers by making it more difficult? Probably not. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" ~ from some space movie i saw a long time ago, star trek maybe lol. We've seen the participation levels of hard core implementations, it isn't very high. Most people don't want to go that hard for some fun. |
|
|
|
Post by Oblong on Feb 18, 2015 5:58:17 GMT -5
An interesting observation ..... we see consider scoring -10 consistently as being a high end player. In Tiger Woods, it was -20. The high end has been cut in half but it's still not good enough? I believe that's pretty damn good, this IS a video game. I would like to see 59's be the current 56/55 - I think that's possible with a bit more difficulty in driving and inside 50 yards. Doyley has it right. The increased difficulty needs to come from HBS and NOT by turning off specific aids for 2 simple reasons: 1. Turning off the aids can and will be "gamed", impossible to police, and ruin the tour. 2. Turning off aids can double the time it takes to play a round and completion numbers will drop because of time constraints. Make the driving/short game cone smaller or the mishit penalty go wider and scores would rise. Add in that TGCTours has used some easy courses post Q-School and tougher future choices would help also. |
|
|
|
Post by Matt10 on Feb 18, 2015 7:06:50 GMT -5
I would like to see 59's be the current 56/55 - I think that's possible with a bit more difficulty in driving and inside 50 yards. Doyley has it right. The increased difficulty needs to come from HBS and NOT by turning off specific aids for 2 simple reasons: 1. Turning off the aids can and will be "gamed", impossible to police, and ruin the tour. 2. Turning off aids can double the time it takes to play a round and completion numbers will drop because of time constraints. Make the driving/short game cone smaller or the mishit penalty go wider and scores would rise. Add in that TGCTours has used some easy courses post Q-School and tougher future choices would help also. 1. If that's how people are going to play their game, then that's them, I don't think we have anyone like that - but then again, I'm naive. 2. Can't say I agree with this at all. Turning off the scout cam results in just more course management. You can still get done in under 45 minutes, maybe even less. The mantra if it ain't broke, don't fix it, comes into play. Obviously this thread has run a decent course, and multiple opinions, all varying, so maybe that means something is broke - and maybe it does need fixing. The proof is in the pudding. As far as HB is concerned, I've always been one to believe companies - no matter how big or small - have to be in to appease the masses. These suggested changes, might not even be considered because it will make the game more difficult for the general crowd - but I think, from what I've seen since joining, is that TGCTours.com is far from the general crowd. The proof is in the pudding there too. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2015 7:09:08 GMT -5
Lets wait and see what HB has in store for us regarding the wind issue, if they can manage to lock all rounds individually with their own wind range (within 1-5mph differences and 45 degree angles) then much of this issue will fade away, but the game will still be easy in some aspects for some or most when it comes to fairways in regulation, greens in regulation, etc.
Now that I have said that, how about this:
Why are we even worried about what the final scores are? It does not matter how hard we or HB makes the tour/game, the top players will remain the top players, and the lower level players (who have been here a while) will remain in the bottom half. This is not going to change, so by changing what aids, or course styles we use, we would not be achieving anything other than reducing the overall player pool.
If we go to harder courses, people will b%& and moan to no end, did you see the response from a few of the courses in q-school? some players absolutely hated playing some of those courses, and I really cant blame them, I absolutely hate a few courses myself, one just went live in the Europe tour last week, and I will be playing another coming very soon on the pga ranks.
If we ask designers to make more of these courses, to spend 50+ hours on a course that will likely get poor ratings and no plays other than when it gets played on the tour, I for one, will not be doing this, while I try to make all my courses a little challenging, never anything like Kodiak will come from me again, it was a total waste of my time now that I look back as it has a laughable 5.4 or so rating.
If we turn off aids, the player pool will surely drop, some players just do not want to play under certain non-aided conditions, and we really cant blame them, because the reasons vary from person to person, like the players who can't see enough detail to putt on no-grid greens, or the players who feel the "no scout cam" will get abused by pressing that "F" button, the list can go on and on.
Lets not really worry what the final score is, lets just try to beat it, because at the end of the day, if the best final score is -100 or +100, if it was not your score, you lost and can use some improvement(s).
Enjoy.
|
|
|
|
Post by Brionne on Feb 18, 2015 8:06:02 GMT -5
The phrase 'Seeing the forest for the trees' comes to mind.
Very well put Taste!
|
|
|
|
Post by Matt10 on Feb 18, 2015 9:11:37 GMT -5
The thing, for some of us it's not about "beating the score" - I hope you get that.
It's about the sanctity of the game of golf. Respecting what it gives to us and what it takes away. As a real golfer/hacker, I would some of us can appreciate that. I like to lose fair and square and I like to win fair and square. Shooting in the 50's every round, and a final scoring average of 50's is not just disrespecting the course you put in 50+ hours to make, it disrespects the game of golf.
That's all there is to it. But that, to me, is a quality thing. This may not be the right medium to express that or even promote it. But someone has to throw it out there. These are the same mental hurdles that discouraged people from playing on Tiger Woods online tours - it disrespected the game of golf.
Call me a purist, or whatever, I'm not the only one that feels this way obviously. Defaulting to the company's direction as a means to "hope" for a change is a passive and defeatist approach. Some of us just aren't willing to put up with that mindset.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2015 9:31:20 GMT -5
The thing, for some of us it's not about "beating the score" - I hope you get that. It's about the sanctity of the game of golf. Respecting what it gives to us and what it takes away. As a real golfer/hacker, I would some of us can appreciate that. I like to lose fair and square and I like to win fair and square. Shooting in the 50's every round, and a final scoring average of 50's is not just disrespecting the course you put in 50+ hours to make, it disrespects the game of golf. That's all there is to it. But that, to me, is a quality thing. This may not be the right medium to express that or even promote it. But someone has to throw it out there. These are the same mental hurdles that discouraged people from playing on Tiger Woods online tours - it disrespected the game of golf. Call me a purist, or whatever, I'm not the only one that feels this way obviously. Defaulting to the company's direction as a means to "hope" for a change is a passive and defeatist approach. Some of us just aren't willing to put up with that mindset. if this is disrespecting the game of golf, why are you still here? it amazes me that ppl don't realize the differences between video games and real life. in video games, its always going to be easier than real life, otherwise, the game would not sell, its as simple as that. like others have said, hop in a race car and drive 200mph without crashing or shitting yourself, but do it in a video game, all of a sudden, you are an armchair driver. same for baseball, football, all sports really, and even combat games. golf is no exception, make it as hard or harder than real life,.......and its not even realistic anymore. may as well play blindfolded. but I have a good proposition for some of you, turn your monitors or tv's upside down, play a few rounds this way, that should make the game more interesting for you. |
|
Kodiak_OS
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 146 
TGCT Name: Dan Turner
|
Post by Kodiak_OS on Feb 18, 2015 10:47:27 GMT -5
The thing, for some of us it's not about "beating the score" - I hope you get that. It's about the sanctity of the game of golf. Respecting what it gives to us and what it takes away. As a real golfer/hacker, I would some of us can appreciate that. I like to lose fair and square and I like to win fair and square. Shooting in the 50's every round, and a final scoring average of 50's is not just disrespecting the course you put in 50+ hours to make, it disrespects the game of golf. That's all there is to it. But that, to me, is a quality thing. This may not be the right medium to express that or even promote it. But someone has to throw it out there. These are the same mental hurdles that discouraged people from playing on Tiger Woods online tours - it disrespected the game of golf. Call me a purist, or whatever, I'm not the only one that feels this way obviously. Defaulting to the company's direction as a means to "hope" for a change is a passive and defeatist approach. Some of us just aren't willing to put up with that mindset. if this is disrespecting the game of golf, why are you still here? it amazes me that ppl don't realize the differences between video games and real life. in video games, its always going to be easier than real life, otherwise, the game would not sell, its as simple as that. like others have said, hop in a race car and drive 200mph without crashing or shitting yourself, but do it in a video game, all of a sudden, you are an armchair driver. same for baseball, football, all sports really, and even combat games. golf is no exception, make it as hard or harder than real life,.......and its not even realistic anymore. may as well play blindfolded. but I have a good proposition for some of you, turn your monitors or tv's upside down, play a few rounds this way, that should make the game more interesting for you. While your point about video games being easier than real life is valid, companies can cater to both a casual crowd and a more sim based crowd. The Show, Madden, NBA 2k, NASCAR 2003, Fifa, Pro Evo, all have different difficulty levels and sliders to cater to everyone. Perfect Golf has sliders and this is where HB has fallen short. Even EA's Tiger Woods had difficulty levels at least. I respect that not everyone has the same viewpoints, but for me, I am clearly on the side of sim. HB could've/can done/do so much more to cater to both. |
|
|
|
Post by Pubknight on Feb 18, 2015 10:53:13 GMT -5
It has only been cut in half if you played Tiger Woods on the lower levels. You could not shoot -20 on average on simulation mode for sure. I would say the scores are quite similar in the sense i aim for nothing less than with -10 as i did in TW. So it depends a little. Either way as Doyley said a few shots could be took of for sure. The short game could easily be made harder where you can ajust loft without a decline in the distance (similar to 3wood and 5wood). I never played any of the Tiger Woods games. For those that did and hold it as the 'sim standard', can you tell me if tournaments were played with similar wind conditions for all players? Or was it like the golf club is currently, where players could wait for near perfect conditions, and play in different wind conditions from other competitors? People that talk about realism, that's where you should look first. |
|
|
|
Post by t2theb2 on Feb 18, 2015 10:53:38 GMT -5
The thing, for some of us it's not about "beating the score" - I hope you get that. It's about the sanctity of the game of golf. Respecting what it gives to us and what it takes away. As a real golfer/hacker, I would some of us can appreciate that. I like to lose fair and square and I like to win fair and square. Shooting in the 50's every round, and a final scoring average of 50's is not just disrespecting the course you put in 50+ hours to make, it disrespects the game of golf. That's all there is to it. But that, to me, is a quality thing. This may not be the right medium to express that or even promote it. But someone has to throw it out there. These are the same mental hurdles that discouraged people from playing on Tiger Woods online tours - it disrespected the game of golf. Call me a purist, or whatever, I'm not the only one that feels this way obviously. Defaulting to the company's direction as a means to "hope" for a change is a passive and defeatist approach. Some of us just aren't willing to put up with that mindset. if this is disrespecting the game of golf, why are you still here? it amazes me that ppl don't realize the differences between video games and real life. in video games, its always going to be easier than real life, otherwise, the game would not sell, its as simple as that. like others have said, hop in a race car and drive 200mph without crashing or shitting yourself, but do it in a video game, all of a sudden, you are an armchair driver. same for baseball, football, all sports really, and even combat games. golf is no exception, make it as hard or harder than real life,.......and its not even realistic anymore. may as well play blindfolded. but I have a good proposition for some of you, turn your monitors or tv's upside down, play a few rounds this way, that should make the game more interesting for you. I do agree to a certain extent but those other sports games do have harder levels that are a real struggle. FIFA 15 for instance has legendary skill mode which is no easy feat at all. So at least it does cater for. Also my personal opinion that they are going to have to keep improving the things people do ask for or risk losing a hell of a sum of users when the PGA game releases. |
|
|
|
Post by t2theb2 on Feb 18, 2015 11:01:50 GMT -5
It has only been cut in half if you played Tiger Woods on the lower levels. You could not shoot -20 on average on simulation mode for sure. I would say the scores are quite similar in the sense i aim for nothing less than with -10 as i did in TW. So it depends a little. Either way as Doyley said a few shots could be took of for sure. The short game could easily be made harder where you can ajust loft without a decline in the distance (similar to 3wood and 5wood). I never played any of the Tiger Woods games. For those that did and hold it as the 'sim standard', can you tell me if tournaments were played with similar wind conditions for all players? Or was it like the golf club is currently, where players could wait for near perfect conditions, and play in different wind conditions from other competitors? People that talk about realism, that's where you should look first. If i remember correctly pub the wind in tourneys were similar speeds for everybody but random directions. But that was because on tigerwoods the tourneys allowed numerous tries for each, so it helped with hitting slightly different shots each round. |
|
