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Post by ErixonStone on May 14, 2019 16:18:09 GMT -5
But more i think about this, and less i still can to see a single reason to allow the switch of clubs during a tournament. TGCT has no way to prevent it from happening. The most action we could take is to remove those players' scores. For the most part, players who switch during an event do so by accident, rather than on purpose. So their penalty is that we consider them to have used easier clubs from the outset. |
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Post by ErixonStone on May 14, 2019 16:20:11 GMT -5
To be fair I haven't got an issue with that. If people are struggling to get in the top 100 consistently with Masters then perhaps they should be down a level. You've evened up the chances of getting a promo mark, I'm good with that. What about players who lose a promotion mark because they use Masters and had a bad week. Should they switch to Pro for rounds 3 and 4? Seems silly to encourage this. |
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Post by Giraffe72 on May 14, 2019 16:23:43 GMT -5
To be fair I haven't got an issue with that. If people are struggling to get in the top 100 consistently with Masters then perhaps they should be down a level. You've evened up the chances of getting a promo mark, I'm good with that. What about players who lose a promotion mark because they use Masters and had a bad week. Should they switch to Pro for rounds 3 and 4? Seems silly to encourage this. I'm not sure how big a problem that's going to be? And even if they do, they've still played 1-3 rounds with Masters which is more of a challenge than all 4 with Pro. Would it really be a problem? Some people have been switching about all season and no one has batted an eyelid. |
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Post by gatorman on May 14, 2019 16:27:52 GMT -5
Well, I don't know if I will switch to Master Clubs, but this discussion makes me want to practice some with them and see if I am ready to switch from Pro Clubs.
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Post by cephyn on May 14, 2019 16:44:10 GMT -5
I mean...I'm fine with that. If you're earning demo marks, and insist on using master clubs....then you should be shuffled to the tour you can compete in. This isn't reward/punishment - its a sorting system so that everyone is playing their career with people roughly their skill level. That's why I don't even agree with any of this. I don't think we need to encourage master club usage at all, i reject the premise. The promo/demo system is a sorting system. It's not gold stars and black dots. Why do you insist on using Pro clubs? I mean if you insist....
Top tours are using Masters only so maybe everybody should be forced to use Masters? Oh wait, not everyone enjoys that so Pro is allowed (which is perfectly fair enough). However not everyone enjoys using Pro clubs and so far this season they have been disadvantaged for enjoying the game with more of a challenge. Now we have a solution where effectively Pro competes against Pro and Masters competes against Masters, both with an equal chance of gaining a promo mark except in CCA for obvious reasons. I'm really struggling to understand your issue with this?
I reject the premise that people should be encouraged to use Pro clubs but that's been the situation so far. Now, both are encouraged and rewarded, happy days!
PS: We loved Willowisp 
I insist on using pro clubs because i'm not good enough to use master clubs. I'm on CCB, have been forever, and don't seem to be going anywhere - because that's where I belong. If I were to switch to Master clubs, I'd probably still be on CCB, or I'd be a lifer on CCC - and either is fine with me. That's my skill level. I don't exactly have a problem with the change - I just think its unnecessary. If someone uses Master clubs and can't promote out, I don't really think they're good enough to promote out in the first place. They're probably in the right flight for their skill level with master clubs. And that's OK. Not everyone has a chance to win every week on the PGA Tour at TGCT - and that's ok. There's nowhere to promo out to. They're in the right place for their skill level. I feel the same way down here - either you're good enough to promote out, or youre not. If you want to use pro clubs, like me, you might cap out at CCB. That's OK. Using pro clubs isn't a golden ticket to advance. I guess I just don't have the mentality that its a reward/penalty system. It's a skill sorting system. I guess I think this league is about competing within your flight - and if you get a lot better, you'll be resorted...if you get worse, you'll get resorted...so that eventually you'll settle on a tour that's right for you. Clearly my philosophy is in the minority. I'm the only one who ever talks about money list rankings it seems. But I see that as the point of separating the tours into flights - competing within your flight, week in and week out. PS: I'm really glad you fellas like Willowisp, I'm very proud of the course.  |
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jtstj
Caddy
Posts: 2
TGCT Name: James Stevens
Tour: CC-Pro
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Post by jtstj on May 14, 2019 17:41:36 GMT -5
cephyn , I'm confused. You're saying that you use pro clubs because you are "not good enough to use master clubs", but you say the clubs "aren't that different" and you'd probably be in the same division. The truth is: pro clubs give a significant advantage under the old promotion rules. I just don't see how someone can argue against the new rules, and then also believe that the clubs aren't that different. If you truly believe this, then you must think it is now easier to get 10th place among master clubs than it is to get top 20 overall because statistically the 10th place master club user is (almost) always out of the top 20. So, if you care about getting promotion points, then just switch to master clubs! Now, if you don't care about getting promotion points and want to stay in your division and stick to pro clubs, then you must believe that the new rule doesn't even affect you (while in fact, statistically, you are actually better off under the new rule).
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Post by cephyn on May 14, 2019 17:53:46 GMT -5
cephyn , I'm confused. You're saying that you use pro clubs because you are "not good enough to use master clubs", but you say the clubs "aren't that different" and you'd probably be in the same division. The truth is: pro clubs give a significant advantage under the old promotion rules. I just don't see how someone can argue against the new rules, and then also believe that the clubs aren't that different. If you truly believe this, then you must think it is now easier to get 10th place among master clubs than it is to get top 20 overall because statistically the 10th place master club user is (almost) always out of the top 20. So, if you care about getting promotion points, then just switch to master clubs! Now, if you don't care about getting promotion points and want to stay in your division and stick to pro clubs, then you must believe that the new rule doesn't even affect you (while in fact, statistically, you are actually better off under the new rule). Pretty sure I'd be in CCB whether or not I used master clubs. That's why I say they aren't that different. I'm not good enough to use master clubs since I hate the experience - they're difficult to be consistent. I can pretty much do it, im only a couple strokes worse with them per round. But it's far more exhausting for me. It doesn't come natural, my natural tempo is within perfect range on Pro, but just barely - it's just slightly outside it on Master. I can't play more than a round or 2 on Master clubs and maintain it, in a single sitting. I can play 4 rounds on Pros just fine. I'm just not good enough to maintain that tempo for Master clubs over 4 rounds. I accidentally played one tournament with 2 rounds on master clubs and 2 rounds on Pro clubs recently. I was 1 stroke per round worse with the master clubs than the pros. but it was exhausting. The new rule doesn't affect me. I don't think it will affect MOST players in a flight. I think it's caused what, 7 pages of confusion, complaints and kvetching for....basically nothing. And I reject the premise of the rule change in the first place - that we should be encouraging master clubs use, and the promo marks are the goal of the tour. |
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Post by Giraffe72 on May 14, 2019 18:30:05 GMT -5
Lol cephyn, only 2 shots a round then. So that's 8 shots a tournament then, quite a big difference in your placement on the leaderboard. And with respect, I think you're in a tiny minority if you think promotion marks aren't important. That is literally the only thing I'm playing for at this level. And maybe that's the difference. |
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Post by cephyn on May 14, 2019 21:32:35 GMT -5
Lol cephyn , only 2 shots a round then. So that's 8 shots a tournament then, quite a big difference in your placement on the leaderboard. And with respect, I think you're in a tiny minority if you think promotion marks aren't important. That is literally the only thing I'm playing for at this level. And maybe that's the difference. I freely admit I'm in the minority. I also think people would be a lot happier if they stopped chasing promo marks and started focusing on doing consistently well in their own flights. |
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Post by SkyBlueBen on May 14, 2019 22:35:51 GMT -5
Lol cephyn , only 2 shots a round then. So that's 8 shots a tournament then, quite a big difference in your placement on the leaderboard. And with respect, I think you're in a tiny minority if you think promotion marks aren't important. That is literally the only thing I'm playing for at this level. And maybe that's the difference. I freely admit I'm in the minority. I also think people would be a lot happier if they stopped chasing promo marks and started focusing on doing consistently well in their own flights. I play for fun, the promo marks are an added if very, very rare feelgood factor. 26 tournaments and I’d managed just one despite playing with “mickey mouse” clubs all that time. Perhaps I should be in a lower division but looking at the leaders scores in AM I’d probably still be way off the pace (not a sniff of a promo mark when I played in E). Last week was my second promo, and it felt good, until they changed the rules mid tournament and I didn’t get it after all!! Still bitter lol |
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Post by Doyley on May 14, 2019 23:18:45 GMT -5
I freely admit I'm in the minority. I also think people would be a lot happier if they stopped chasing promo marks and started focusing on doing consistently well in their own flights. I play for fun, the promo marks are an added if very, very rare feelgood factor. 26 tournaments and I’d managed just one despite playing with “mickey mouse” clubs all that time. Perhaps I should be in a lower division but looking at the leaders scores in AM I’d probably still be way off the pace (not a sniff of a promo mark when I played in E). Last week was my second promo, and it felt good, until they changed the rules mid tournament and I didn’t get it after all!! Still bitter lol Ouch! That sucks! If it makes you feel any better that tournament director guy is a tool. |
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AngusMoses
Caddy
Posts: 41
TGCT Name: Angus Moses
Tour: CC-Pro
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Post by AngusMoses on May 15, 2019 5:33:12 GMT -5
Lol cephyn , only 2 shots a round then. So that's 8 shots a tournament then, quite a big difference in your placement on the leaderboard. And with respect, I think you're in a tiny minority if you think promotion marks aren't important. That is literally the only thing I'm playing for at this level. And maybe that's the difference. I freely admit I'm in the minority. I also think people would be a lot happier if they stopped chasing promo marks and started focusing on doing consistently well in their own flights. +1 |
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Post by schmiff on May 15, 2019 8:45:52 GMT -5
I can pretty much do it, im only a couple strokes worse with them per round. I'm envious - since I switched to Masters 3-4 weeks ago my handicap has gotten worse by 10 points (+25 to +15). My swing is nowhere near straight enough to compete with Masters clubs. I'm in a situation where I have to decide whether to switch back to Pro to clear my demotion marks, or accept demotion to CC-B (and likely never see CC-A again, although the new changes might give me a chance if I improve). I find them exhausting too, not because of the effort required to maintain performance, but because of the constant hacking around and the associated anger! I don't enjoy Masters anywhere near as much as I do Pro, but I'm also the sort of person who insists on playing on the highest difficulty - not a good combination when I suck at it... |
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Post by joakimrose131 on May 15, 2019 9:11:41 GMT -5
I finished T19 last week and didn’t get a promotion mark. I knew I needed -5 in round 4 to get into the top 20 and played for that and got it. I was thrilled, it was my first Mark in CC Pro C. Then I get this email, and logically assume it doesn’t apply until next week, since I had NO IDEA these changes were happening. Lo and behold, no promotion mark. That is BULLSHIT. They make this change without anyone knowing it and apply it retroactively?  I am so done with this game if they don’t fix it. |
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Post by joakimrose131 on May 15, 2019 9:12:47 GMT -5
I think i might have lost my first promotion mark of the season too  finished equal 9th best of the season so far. Ouch, you win. It's the only thing with these changes. I wholeheartedly agree with them but the communication of it wasn't the best. I'd seen it but it wasn't exactly out there. Question is, are you going to use Masters as it gives you more promo spots to aim at, or are you happier using Pro? If it's the latter, why would you want a promo mark? I lost mine too. Finished T19, exactly what I was going for in round 4. Complete nonsense and completely unfair. I had no idea they were changing the rules. |
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I am so done with this game if they don’t fix it. 
finished equal 9th best of the season so far.