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Post by cliffs on May 13, 2019 19:31:31 GMT -5
Not sure how George could write the books now. As for Jamie and the way they ended his story line, I think he should have had the chance to tell Euron that the kid Cersei was carrying was his.
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Post by Celtic Wolf on May 14, 2019 2:53:33 GMT -5
At one point I thought they were going to have Cersei and Jamie escaping to Essos, to leave open the possibility of their child going through the same journey as Daenerys. I do think Jon will kill Daenerys not because he wants the throne but because of what Varys said about being unsure of Daenerys. But what will happen with Drogon if she is killed, would Jon be able to command it, I don't think so.
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Post by cliffs on May 14, 2019 5:34:01 GMT -5
Perhaps there is one Scorpion left somewhere around Kings Landing and they will show Jon struggling (mentally) to use it as he aims it at her riding her dragon? Then he lets Sansa have the throne (she will be a biatch also), Tyrion snuggles up with Sansa, Bran becomes Sansa's hand, Ayra becomes the new faceless 7 kingdoms assassin and Jon travels back north to help rebuild the wall and/or become the king of the north.
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Post by cliffs on May 14, 2019 5:44:58 GMT -5
Screw the link...I copied and pasted as this is how I feel also.
How ‘Game of Thrones’ Episode 5 Could’ve Gotten It Right, and the Only Way It Can Go From Here
After episode five of the final season of Game of Thrones, we all know King’s Landing has been burnt to a crisp, Cersei and Jaime have been reduced to rubble, Daenerys has descended into madness, Arya has become fueled by a different kind of vengeance, and Jon is fighting with regret.
This was the outcome of this week's episode, which included the epic battle at King’s Landing. It was big and bold and showcased the deaths of many major players: Cersei Lannister, Jaime Lannister, Lord Varys, Sandor “The Hound” Clegane, Gregor “The Mountain” Clegane, Euron Greyjoy and Qyburn. On paper, this was everything we could have asked for…So why did it feel so devoid of the emotion it deserved?
The answer: pacing. It's well-known at this point that showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss had a story summit with George R.R. Martin a few years ago where they spent numerous days going over the major plot points that exist within Martin’s head for the epic finale of his A Song of Ice and Fire series. By all accounts, the showrunners took the ending of Martin’s series and devised their own way of getting to the same ending the books will have.
SO HOW DID WE END UP HERE?
In my estimation, pacing is the reason for the final season's issues. This and this alone is the reason for the tepid reaction to this entire season of Thrones. The problem isn’t with what is happening. It’s with how it’s happening.
On paper, it looks great to say Daenerys will become fueled by jealousy, just like her older brother Viserys became in season one when he saw the Dothraki idolizing his sister instead of himself. It looks great to say she’ll descend to “The Mad Queen” status much like her father. It looks great on paper to say Cersei and Jaime will die in the cells of the Red Keep, with the castle they fought and schemed for literally and metaphorically collapsing atop them. And it looks great on paper to say that, in the end, the real war won’t be between the living and the dead or between Daenerys and Cersei, but instead will be between aunt and nephew.
The problem is, each of these transformations of character weren’t given the time they deserve to occur naturally. We the viewers have spent almost ten years with these characters, watching their slow and methodical development and transformations from what they were in season one to what they became at the end of season seven.
Every change we saw in Jon and Dany and Jaime and Arya was motivated. It all made sense. They saw things, reacted to things and changed in a natural, human way. That was the beauty of this show: It married a fictional and magical world with true humanity that we all could relate to. But with 13 episodes left to tell one third of George R.R. Martin’s epic tale, it genuinely feels like the show lost touch with that humanity.
Time became the antagonist. Where the characters have ended up with one final episode left is fine. It’s believable on paper. However, in execution, it’s hard to believe that Daenerys would transform from liberator and hero to malicious murderer over the course of two episodes. It’s hard to believe that Jaime would be fueled to do what’s right in episode three of the final season, abandoning his evil sister to defend the living, and then go running back to her in episode four. It’s hard to believe that Varys, the most meticulous and schematic character on the show, would hear a rumor and then basically tell everyone that he was willing to commit treason. And it’s hard to believe that Cersei and Qyburn, who have been merciless from the start, wouldn’t have a plan in place to blow up the city with wildfire once the gates fell and all of the Northern army was in close proximity.
The show broke down the fundamental elements that make each character who they are in the viewers' minds, but they did so without explaining or motivating those breaks, leaving everyone confused and underwhelmed.
HOW WOULD YOU HAVE SOLVED THIS PROBLEM?
It seems all but certain that the last episode will focus on a divide and feud between Jon and Daenerys, but just imagine how much more powerful that would've been if Rhaegal hadn’t been killed in episode four.
Let me paint an alternative picture for you: Rhaegal and Drogon are both alive and well as Dany and Jon plan the siege of King’s Landing. Dany will ride Drogon while Jon will ride Rhaegal. The battle ensues and everything goes as planned: The Lannister forces surrender and the bell rings. Jon pulls Rhaegal up into the sky while Daenerys descends into madness and begins her massacre on the people of King’s Landing. Jon watches in shock and disgust and flies Rhaegal toward Dany and Drogon. He pleads with her to stop but she won’t listen. Finally we see Jon attack Dany on dragon-back. The city watches in shock as the two dragons and their Targaryen riders fight in the sky. Cersei watches from the window of the Red Keep with a smile on her face. This has always been her plan: to bait Dany into becoming evil and getting her and Jon to turn on one another.
Meanwhile, Jaime and Euron fight at the foot of the cave, and the fight ends with both of them looking as if they’ve died, but Jaime continues to crawl towards Cersei. Euron says his now infamous line: “I’m the man who killed Jaime Lannister.” Meanwhile, in King’s Landing, Arya and The Hound can’t get into the city as the doors have closed, but Arya (from her days running around the Red Keep back in season one) knows of the same hidden entrance Jaime had found at the foot of the cave. We finally see Jaime reunite with Cersei inside the crumbling Red Keep. Cersei runs and hugs him, and then Jaime starts choking her, before pulling off his face to reveal that it’s Arya Stark. Arya found Jaime’s dead body at the foot of the cave, harvested his face and used it to kill Cersei, fulfilling both the prophecy that said Cersei would be killed by her younger brother, and providing the biggest check mark on Arya’s kill list. Back in the air, Daenerys and Jon battle it out, with Daenerys killing Rhaegar, and sending Jon tumbling to the ground. Seeing her dragon die sends Daenerys into even more of a rage as she obliterates the people of King’s Landing, setting the stage for the final battle between the two Targaryens.
SO WHAT WILL HAPPEN NEXT EPISODE?
Since Dany’s behavior in the Battle of King’s Landing, Jon, Tyrion, Arya and everyone in Westeros knows who she truly is, and it seems likely that Arya will be the one to put an end to The Mad Queen’s reign. “Brown eyes, green eyes, and blue eyes,” is the prophecy Melisandre told to her. Daenerys is the last remaining character with green eyes, so it seems that murdering Daenerys will fulfill Melisandre’s vision for Arya’s future.
It also feels more likely now that Jon will see the carnage that ensued last episode and abandon his claim on the Iron Throne. Perhaps he’ll go up North to live out the rest of his life with Ghost and Tormund, rejecting the crown in the same way that one of the only other Targaryen characters Jon knew did: Maester Aemon.
The thing that pains me about this ending is that I genuinely think it makes sense. It’s a good ending to a series that has never given us what we want. The problem is we haven’t been given enough time to see it blossom into a satisfying ending.
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Post by JosiaDB on May 14, 2019 8:03:50 GMT -5
^ this.
But just a couple comments-
This is exactly what I was trying to say a couple pages ago, when I was talking about I couldn't figure out how they were going to fit so many pages into this last season. Its just worded clearer with this one sentence. LOL
The "how would you have solved the problem" section would have been a great, much better show! In fact, I sort of thought something like that would happen with Arya, and it did not.
Only part of this persons article I do not agree with. How does someone writing this article with such well thought out stuff not realize that Danyreas has purple eyes and does not fit the prophecy?! I know that in the TV show, the actor has green eyes, sure, so theoretically you could make it fit there. But that, to me, if they did that, would mess up the whole thing so bad that I would just hate the show that much more, for changing something that major, just to fit something that they messed up in the first place.
Having Arya kill Dany would be quite ok. JUST DON'T SAY ITS THE PROPHECY. If you want, even after the fact, have someone talking to her, and say was all this prophesied, and have her shake her head and smile and say no, I fulfilled that one with someone else. That leaves Martin free to write something completely different in the book, which is probably what he intended in the first place. lol
I hope, that when, if, he does finish the books, he goes all George RR Martin on us, like he has in the past, and does whatever the crap George RR Martin wants to do, and just writes his stories the way he originally intended, with no thought of what the show has messed up.
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Post by Brighttail on May 14, 2019 9:14:24 GMT -5
I basically see three alternatives at this point to end the series:
1. GoT goes all nihilistic and Danny understands that while she might love Jon, just having him around would be a constant threat to her rule. This would then result in also the deaths of those who betrayed her, namely Tyrion and Sansa. Danny might leave Winterfell intact, should whoever steps up bends the knee or she might install her own and newly promoted "Lord of Winterfell". To me this would be the most "George R Martin ending" because he hates happily-ever-after endings. Sometimes what happens is what happens. The bad, or MAD in this case, sometimes wins and you have to live decades under their rule. It has happened before and it can happen again. Greyworm forever at her side now.
2. Jon, Arya, Davos, Tyrion and others realize that Varys was right all along. Danny while having a claim to the throne is not the best one suited for the job. Leaving her in charge will be a return to the reign of the mad king. Killing her and getting away with it is no easy task either as you have the unsullied and Dothraki who are still immensely loyal to her. Even if Jon could exert his own dominance over the last dragon alive and 'steal' him from Danny, there is a potential for a lot of blood taking Danny out, and yet...for many it must be done. An alternate to this possibility is that Danny has an attack of conscious and either marries Jon to share the throne or does a Tommon and jumps off the castle to her death for the crimes she committed. Jon then reluctantly takes the throne.
3. Pretty much some form of point 2 except that Jon doesn't want the throne, never did. he burns the iron throne publicly. Throws down the crown and storms off back to the north telling the people of King's Landing and Westeros to elect their own King here. The North it its own realm. The Dothraki head back to their home on confiscated Golden Company ships, the Dothraki might stay behind and ride around Westeros doing what Dothraki do, kill, rape and pillage. Series end with Arya seeing exactly what is west of Westeros?
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Post by JosiaDB on May 14, 2019 12:39:49 GMT -5
just read this-
"Disney has revealed that the next Star Wars film to be released after the Skywalker Saga concludes will be from Game of Thrones creators David Benioff and D.B. Weiss."
bye bye Star Wars! LOL
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Post by cliffs on May 14, 2019 13:19:57 GMT -5
I wish the Battle of Winterfell had been during the daytime. I enjoyed watching the Kings Landing battle much more than the Winterfell one.
BUT...as all things this season, both battles were over before they started, so to speak. I have never seen a battle in any show or movie last as short a time period as these two did.
True the dragon had something to do with Kings landing but with an army of millions, the NK was dead within 20 minutes it seems.
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Post by JosiaDB on May 14, 2019 14:25:10 GMT -5
True the dragon had something to do with Kings landing but with an army of millions, the NK was dead within 20 minutes it seems.
Almost as quick as it takes Sansa to blab a secret she swears she would not tell!!  |
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Post by theclv24 on May 14, 2019 15:28:19 GMT -5
I'm sure this came out or was explained long ago and I missed it, but why are there so few episodes in the past two seasons? I've seen a lot of critiques of the past two seasons attributing the clunkiness of the writing, the plot holes, and the non-sensical character arcs to the condensed timeline, but I don't see anyone questioning why they decided to go with a condensed timeline. Seems like a few more episodes in each season could resolve a lot of the issues they've had. What was the reasoning behind that decision?
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Post by cliffs on May 14, 2019 15:34:38 GMT -5
Because the books ended 2 seasons ago and the writers actually had to come up with a story to tell.
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Post by Brighttail on May 14, 2019 16:48:41 GMT -5
It was more of a time constraints with all the actors and filming schedules/availability of the areas. Where they filmed Winterfell they only had a certain number of days where they could film 'winter' and the battle itself took nearly 3 months straight of night time filming to film not to mention the other two episodes prior to that. Add post production into it, the 6 episodes ran nearly a year into the making and was running about 25-30 million per episode. A normal hour drama is done in 6-9 months WITH post production and much lighter budget. The real question is in episode four, Danny made mention that she was still in an alliance with the new Prince of Dorne. In the TV series we saw the original Prince of Dorne and his son murdered by his wife and the Sand Snakes. We saw the Prince's brother killed by the Mountain when he was fighting in the Trial by Combat for Tyrion and we saw at least 3 of the 8 daughters of the Prince's (all who are bastards which is why they have the name Sand) die by Cersei's hand, including the mother. There was one other brother named in the books named Quentin. He was killed off in the books by one of Danny's dragons but has never been mentioned in the TV show. We know that the Targaryns and the Martels of Dorne have a tradition of convenient marriages and that Danny herself forged an alliance with Dorne last season before the Sand Snakes and their mother were captured by Cersei. So the alliance seems to still be in play but we have no idea who the new Prince of Dorne is.  Will we ever find out? Will he show up at Danny's coronation? We'll have to see!
New Question! Who will rule the Iron Throne?
1. Danny 2. Jon 3. Tyrion 4. Sansa 5. Gendry 6. Someone else 7. There will be no ruler or it will be picked by the people
Personally, I don't think after the show not only showed the slaughter from Danny's rage and the horror-filled faces of Jon, Tyrion and Davos, that the show will allow Danny to stay on the Iron Throne. She may be crowned Queen but I think she must die in the end or some how give it up. I think the show is leaning towards handing the crown to the 'reluctant King' who is the rightful heir, who has said he doesn't want it and has been told by numerous people he NEEDS to be the one to rule, Jon. Sadly I think this would be the "happily-ever-after" ending that George R. Martin hates. I could see Jon turning it down and burning the Iron Throne and leaving it to the people or whoever cares to take it for themselves. The ironic twist ending would be Gendry, the bastard and the last of the Baratheons so we end up right where we started. At this point, I am honestly not sure I want there to be ANY one on the throne. I can't imagine the North would be willing to bow to anyone other than Jon at this point, so why even have a King/Queen of all Westeros. Let the 7 Kingdoms rule themselves, forge alliances and try to kill each other in a new type of Game of Thrones that they can spin off multiple series from.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2019 22:44:53 GMT -5
If Tywin were still alive...  |
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Post by golferdude1994 on May 16, 2019 21:19:07 GMT -5
How about an activity of toliets next instead of game of thrones lol
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Post by cliffs on May 17, 2019 6:09:04 GMT -5
How about an activity of toliets next instead of game of thrones lol Potty cards anyone? Or the endearing...dominoes while dumping? |
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Will we ever find out? Will he show up at Danny's coronation? We'll have to see!