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Post by joegolferg on Mar 24, 2019 16:22:57 GMT -5
The clean and tidy Biarritz at Camargo is backed by a low tree-lined fall off. Nice it of depth to the swale, too. The fall offs are a common feature at Camargo due to Raynor's elite routing skills, he took full advantage of the soft rolling valleys on this Cincinnati property.
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Post by joegolferg on Mar 25, 2019 11:57:00 GMT -5
The Redan at Camargo features a huge kicker that feeds balls into the back left portion of the green. You'd never want to miss long, here.
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Post by joegolferg on Mar 27, 2019 10:04:30 GMT -5
The final picture of the Camargo par three's is my favorite, the Eden. This is by far the most photographed hole at Camargo and its no surprise why. The hole plays as a mid length par three across a valley. The bunkering is pretty severe on this hole, anywhere not on the green is an extremely difficult up and down.
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Post by joegolferg on Apr 4, 2019 8:22:01 GMT -5
The Biarritz at The Old White TPC in Virginia. One of my favorite renditions of this template due to the fact the swale is wide enough to put pin placements in it. It is also unusually narrow for a Biarritz which adds a lot of precision shot making to the hole.
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Post by gamesdecent on Apr 5, 2019 10:02:32 GMT -5
I may or may not have planned and routed a match play-focused, MacRaynor-ISH styled template course last night. I have a lot of the classic templates, a lot of the good short to mid 4 ones, and a couple template combinations, my favorite of which I'm calling the Levitz, a par 5 Leven where the heroic carry to the upper shelf sets up the 2nd shot into the dogleg at an angle straight into the biarritz green, while the safe tee shot hits uphill into the biarritz from a diagonal angle and most of the time won't even be reachable in two.  The ravine snakes through the whole plot with a river at the bottom. So like Shoreacres but on a canyon scale. I want the setting to be pretty fantasy, but the sculpting to be very Raynor ( B.Smooth13 on the collab?), I'm thinking steppe theme - sun-baked, dried out terrain in the desert, very firm, very fast, par 69 called The Matchbox. |
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Post by joegolferg on Apr 5, 2019 12:04:38 GMT -5
I may or may not have planned and routed a match play-focused, MacRaynor-ISH styled template course last night. I have a lot of the classic templates, a lot of the good short to mid 4 ones, and a couple template combinations, my favorite of which I'm calling the Levitz, a par 5 Leven where the heroic carry to the upper shelf sets up the 2nd shot into the dogleg at an angle straight into the biarritz green, while the safe tee shot hits uphill into the biarritz from a diagonal angle and most of the time won't even be reachable in two. The ravine snakes through the whole plot with a river at the bottom. So like Shoreacres but on a canyon scale. I want the setting to be pretty fantasy, but the sculpting to be very Raynor ( B.Smooth13 on the collab?), I'm thinking steppe theme - sun-baked, dried out terrain in the desert, very firm, very fast, par 69 called The Matchbox. Great stuff, Brian. Looks like a very interesting hole indeed. If I may make a suggestion 🖐️... You could add even more of the Leven template by adding in mounding at the front left of the green that protects and makes low shots in from the left, inaccessible. With this addition, instead of having the all angles into the green made better by carrying the fairway bunker, you could pin the front left and a drive down the right would actually be preferable for that location - as the Leven mounding could slope the green front to back making shots in from the left side of the fairway a trickier option. That's the best I can explain it, but I think It would add even more strategy. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2019 12:09:22 GMT -5
I may or may not have planned and routed a match play-focused, MacRaynor-ISH styled template course last night. I have a lot of the classic templates, a lot of the good short to mid 4 ones, and a couple template combinations, my favorite of which I'm calling the Levitz, a par 5 Leven where the heroic carry to the upper shelf sets up the 2nd shot into the dogleg at an angle straight into the biarritz green, while the safe tee shot hits uphill into the biarritz from a diagonal angle and most of the time won't even be reachable in two. The ravine snakes through the whole plot with a river at the bottom. So like Shoreacres but on a canyon scale. I want the setting to be pretty fantasy, but the sculpting to be very Raynor ( B.Smooth13 on the collab?), I'm thinking steppe theme - sun-baked, dried out terrain in the desert, very firm, very fast, par 69 called The Matchbox. Great stuff, Brian. Looks like a very interesting hole indeed. If I may make a suggestion 🖐️... You could add even more of the Leven template by adding in mounding at the front left of the green that protects and makes low shots in from the left, inaccessible. With this addition, instead of having the all angles into the green made better by carrying the fairway bunker, you could pin the front left and a drive down the right would actually be preferable for that location - as the Leven mounding could slope the green front to back making shots in from the left side of the fairway a trickier option. That's the best I can explain it, but I think It would add even more strategy. I get the benefit of the approach angle being straight into the Biarritz, but even so I think I would drive to the right every time. Youd have to narrow it up quite a bit to change my mind. I think the direct line to the hole outweighs the benefits of the left side. So yes, add the mounding to the left! Still, an interesting hole design |
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Post by gamesdecent on Apr 5, 2019 13:20:38 GMT -5
Great stuff, Brian. Looks like a very interesting hole indeed. If I may make a suggestion 🖐️... You could add even more of the Leven template by adding in mounding at the front left of the green that protects and makes low shots in from the left, inaccessible. With this addition, instead of having the all angles into the green made better by carrying the fairway bunker, you could pin the front left and a drive down the right would actually be preferable for that location - as the Leven mounding could slope the green front to back making shots in from the left side of the fairway a trickier option. That's the best I can explain it, but I think It would add even more strategy. So I've talked to Smedley and he's looking at the plot and hole descriptions I sent him. What we've talked about is me doing the macro sculpting and laying down fairways, him taking over and doing all the green and bunker micro-sculpting how he thinks the shots should best play into them based on the strategy, and then me taking the plot back and doing the planting and surroundings and touching up. I would love to have you look it over hole-by-hole and offer improvements like this one above too, your template nuance knowledge far exceeds mine. I'd considered making the front shelf and swale of the biarritz fairway like at Fishers and have it slope pretty heavily to the right to catch and funnel any ambitious 2nd shots that come up short of the green off into the bunker to the right or possibly even down into the ravine. After ohheycat's suggestion, I'm thinking that may be the way to go. |
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Post by joegolferg on Apr 6, 2019 6:53:57 GMT -5
Great stuff, Brian. Looks like a very interesting hole indeed. If I may make a suggestion 🖐️... You could add even more of the Leven template by adding in mounding at the front left of the green that protects and makes low shots in from the left, inaccessible. With this addition, instead of having the all angles into the green made better by carrying the fairway bunker, you could pin the front left and a drive down the right would actually be preferable for that location - as the Leven mounding could slope the green front to back making shots in from the left side of the fairway a trickier option. That's the best I can explain it, but I think It would add even more strategy. So I've talked to Smedley and he's looking at the plot and hole descriptions I sent him. What we've talked about is me doing the macro sculpting and laying down fairways, him taking over and doing all the green and bunker micro-sculpting how he thinks the shots should best play into them based on the strategy, and then me taking the plot back and doing the planting and surroundings and touching up. I would love to have you look it over hole-by-hole and offer improvements like this one above too, your template nuance knowledge far exceeds mine. I'd considered making the front shelf and swale of the biarritz fairway like at Fishers and have it slope pretty heavily to the right to catch and funnel any ambitious 2nd shots that come up short of the green off into the bunker to the right or possibly even down into the ravine. After ohheycat's suggestion, I'm thinking that may be the way to go. Sounds good. Smedley is a good collab partner for this sort of project, looking forward to seeing your plans/layout. Maybe get a WIP thread up? |
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Post by joegolferg on Apr 6, 2019 10:41:17 GMT -5
I want to take you back to the genesis of the 'island hole.' *Spoiler alert* It wasn't Pete Dye who first came up with this concept.
We have to travel all the way back to the year 1917 and arrive at the Tillinghast Galen Hall GC. When you arrive at hole 15, here's what you get...
Fast forward roughly eight years later, into the mid 1920's and we see another island hole. The most unique island hole that exists today, and will always be. C.B Macdonalds The Creek Club features an island Biarritz hole that changes its surroundings according to the tide. One day you can can play this hole and it is surrounded by dry, rugged marsh land, and the next day the green can be completely surrounded by water! It blows my mind.
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Post by joegolferg on Apr 11, 2019 13:11:08 GMT -5
Interesting thread developing on Twitter...
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Post by joegolferg on Apr 13, 2019 10:22:28 GMT -5
I've never been this excited for the women's US Open 😊
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Post by mav78 on Apr 19, 2019 12:48:26 GMT -5
Boooo. So superficial, they should have stopped copying and got their own ideas
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Post by joegolferg on Apr 19, 2019 16:53:28 GMT -5
Boooo. So superficial, they should have stopped copying and got their own ideas The irony of this is that pretty much all golf holes in the world are templates or variations of templates. |
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Post by joegolferg on Apr 19, 2019 16:54:36 GMT -5
Something different here. What are some of the WORST golf architecture related things you have ever seen? I just came across this thing on twitter...
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