Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2019 1:55:48 GMT -5
I would love to hear a real viable reason pro clubs users would have an issue with this. Why would moving them to their own tour make them quit? It's still TGC tours competition but just a level playing field. Kind of like the beginner clubs tour they have their own tour and a very competitive tour so what is different? I’m a pro club user because that’s what keeps me sane on my PS4 and stops me smashing my controllers. I’d love to play with the longer clubs but it’s just too inconsistent for me. Let me be clear.... I have absolutely no issue being in a pro club only tier but I will say this.... if anyone thinks this will make the tours more even or tighten up the leaderboards across all members in that tier it’s just not going to happen. All this will do is replicate exactly what we have across more tour groups creating more admin work (presumably) for a very similar result. |
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Post by ErixonStone on Jan 31, 2019 11:20:30 GMT -5
if anyone thinks this will make the tours more even or tighten up the leaderboards across all members in that tier it’s just not going to happen. Right. It would only serve to further disperse scoring and separate the fields. Also, you would have the best Pro Club users - guys who have PGA ability - playing against legitimate CC-E players. 5 months into this game and I think last year's game had better balance. I think the "break-even point" - where neither club is better than the other for a particular skill level - is too far towards the "advanced" end of the spectrum in this game. It should be closer to the "intermediate" point. I hope next year's game heads back towards that direction. |
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Post by xEB50x on Jan 31, 2019 11:39:15 GMT -5
I'm not affected by this as my tour is masters, but I've watched many of my cyber friends on here in the CC ranks and I always find it odd that they are grinding out with masters only to be beat by players using Pro clubs. I would support some type of separation as it only seems fair. At the very least I feel that CC-A should have a Masters only tour (Running along side a CC-A pro clubs div) which would be the only tour you could promote to WEB from. It would be your choice if you want to try and promote to the Pro tours or stay in the CC-A Pro clubs div. It just feels unfair that players using pro clubs who are barley beating masters club players should earn a promotion never proving they have the ability to score with Masters clubs.
I think we all can agree we love TGCTours and will continue to play however this resolves it's self, and it's great knowing we can put forth suggestions in an open format.
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Post by Giraffe72 on Jan 31, 2019 12:11:35 GMT -5
I'm not affected by this as my tour is masters, but I've watched many of my cyber friends on here in the CC ranks and I always find it odd that they are grinding out with masters only to be beat by players using Pro clubs. I would support some type of separation as it only seems fair. At the very least I feel that CC-A should have a Masters only tour (Running along side a CC-A pro clubs div) which would be the only tour you could promote to WEB from. It would be your choice if you want to try and promote to the Pro tours or stay in the CC-A Pro clubs div. It just feels unfair that players using pro clubs who are barley beating masters club players should earn a promotion never proving they have the ability to score with Masters clubs. I think we all can agree we love TGCTours and will continue to play however this resolves it's self, and it's great knowing we can put forth suggestions in an open format. ^^This^^
I have nothing to add 
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Post by mde8965 on Jan 31, 2019 13:44:15 GMT -5
The discussion is about providing a level playing field not an all-inclusive one. Pro clubs are just too much easier than masters to call it a level playing field when they are both permitted in the event. And the OP's suggestion does nothing to exclude anyone. It simply provides a different (and IMO, more fair) structure in which to play. I like this proposal. I was going to reply, but the above was exactly what I’d have said pretty much. It won’t really affect me as I’m in PGA, but if I were in CC toward the upper tiers currently I would despise having to compete using Pro clubs, knowing if I switch to master I would likely never progress. Heck, I even hate the fact that certain societies I frequent allow any clubs. Kind of disheartening when you look at the society leaderboard and see an -18 round played with beginner clubs from a CC-B player. While you scratched and clawed with masters to shoot a “fantastic” -14. |
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Post by mart280 on Jan 31, 2019 13:49:20 GMT -5
The thing is and please don't interpret my comments the wrong way, TGCTours is supposed to, insofar as it can, emulate real life Golf Tours but it only does this for the top three levels, "The Elite" because in real life golf there are no two club sets that have such black and white difference, that also separate the players on their respective real life tours, so there is no choice to be made, when you think about it at least to me, it seems like such an artificial "thing" (I dunno what to call it  ) foisted upon us, "lesser mortals" I blame HB and it's a shame they put financial aims before gaming ideals (I don't really blame them for this) they want dollars and be known as those rich guys and not as those guys who made a brilliant Golf "Sim" I love it here and I'm a newb, only been here since last September and have been made to feel really welcome but surely unless the aim is to create an elitist TGCTours shouldn't ALL of the tours then have a mix of Pro and Masters clubs ? I'm just throwing out some of the jumbled up thoughts in my head, I really do appreciate all the hard work the guys do here at TGCT. How about a Masters only Tour ? like the Beginners clubs only Tour ? |
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Post by mde8965 on Jan 31, 2019 14:06:30 GMT -5
I further think that the original idea in this thread is spot in. But you need to allow the lower cc tiers to play with pro or master. Then enforce the masters only cc tiers from cc-c or cc-d on up. This would allow our newer players that like the challenge of masters clubs and don’t care about the leaderboards to have a place to be.
I’m not touching the addition of an Elite tour above PGA (as shown in scenario 2) with a 10 ft pole
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Post by lions67 on Jan 31, 2019 20:26:09 GMT -5
There needs to be an incentive for using the Master Clubs.
They are the hardest clubs.
Why penalize master users? Why should we drop down to pro clubs just because we can?
It makes zero sense.
Maybe fast tracking ?... if you use master maybe you get fast tracked ahead of the pro club even if you are 2,3 shots behind the pro club??
That would be a good incentive I think
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Post by XJ_Jagman on Jan 31, 2019 21:17:53 GMT -5
if anyone thinks this will make the tours more even or tighten up the leaderboards across all members in that tier it’s just not going to happen. Right. It would only serve to further disperse scoring and separate the fields. Also, you would have the best Pro Club users - guys who have PGA ability - playing against legitimate CC-E players. I'm not following your logic here. I must be missing something. Right now, it is apples to oranges. I just think it needs to be apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Why is there a beginner's tour? Why is the master set only allowed on the PGA, Euro and Web.com? Level playing field. I'm crunching the data, but it is taking time. Hopefully, I will publish the data soon. But let me say this based on what I've completed so far. I've played master clubs since Q-School and nothing else in tournament rounds until this week. Presently, I'm leading CC-D after the second round. There is an advantage. |
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kopraj
Caddy
Posts: 58 
TGCT Name: Jerimy Kopra
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Post by kopraj on Jan 31, 2019 23:55:10 GMT -5
Have had a ton of fun this year just sticking to Beginners Clubs and I dig the BCT. Hope you all find a good solution for everyone with the Pro/Masters club debate. Kinda the same debate we had a couple months back, but without the Beginners clubs in the mix.
I know some folks dig the challenge of moving up, but unless you're in that top 5-10% of the players in the TGC universe, you're gonna hit the same wall you're hitting now, just later on after you've promoted. I know it's a whole different world than what you guys are playing in, but I really enjoy the BCT this year. Starting to get familiar with some of the names on the leaderboard, and it has been fun trying crack the top 15 every week on a tour where everyone plays with the same clubs. No worries about promotion or demotion, just has been fun every week to tee it up and see how it goes. Last year for me on TGC2 it was go go go to promote, and then when I finally made PGA it was a real let down after a few weeks because I realized my ceiling was just making the cut on that tour. Didn't take long for me to put the game down. This year has been much more fun for me personally, just enjoying playing a video golf game amongst people who play the same course with the same conditions with the same clubs every week and seeing how it shakes out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 1:31:10 GMT -5
Right. It would only serve to further disperse scoring and separate the fields. Also, you would have the best Pro Club users - guys who have PGA ability - playing against legitimate CC-E players. I'm not following your logic here. I must be missing something. Right now, it is apples to oranges. I just think it needs to be apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Why is there a beginner's tour? Why is the master set only allowed on the PGA, Euro and Web.com? Level playing field. I'm crunching the data, but it is taking time. Hopefully, I will publish the data soon. But let me say this based on what I've completed so far. I've played master clubs since Q-School and nothing else in tournament rounds until this week. Presently, I'm leading CC-D after the second round. There is an advantage. Because all the good master players are in the top three tours? You play better with pro clubs obviously. So stick with them. The tours being separate due to how good you are tee to green sucks. Score should be the criteria - not how good you are tee to green. Players should play with whatever clubs give them the best score. If that’s pro and the top tour is (10% masters, 70% pro, 20% beginners) - so be it. Onus should be on HB to make the clubs more balanced |
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Post by Giraffe72 on Feb 1, 2019 5:13:25 GMT -5
I'm not following your logic here. I must be missing something. Right now, it is apples to oranges. I just think it needs to be apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Why is there a beginner's tour? Why is the master set only allowed on the PGA, Euro and Web.com? Level playing field. I'm crunching the data, but it is taking time. Hopefully, I will publish the data soon. But let me say this based on what I've completed so far. I've played master clubs since Q-School and nothing else in tournament rounds until this week. Presently, I'm leading CC-D after the second round. There is an advantage. Because all the good master players are in the top three tours? You play better with pro clubs obviously. So stick with them. The tours being separate due to how good you are tee to green sucks. Score should be the criteria - not how good you are tee to green. Players should play with whatever clubs give them the best score. If that’s pro and the top tour is (10% masters, 70% pro, 20% beginners) - so be it. Onus should be on HB to make the clubs more balanced Wondered when you'd pipe up! You're right about the onus being on HB, but the fact is that the balance in this game is non existent. Playing Pro or Master is literally a completely different game. HB, to be fair, has even called it 'difficulty level' rather than 'club set' in game. TGCT was right initially to try and let people use what they want, Beginners clubs were so easy that they did something about it, and we're now at the point after 3 months and enough data that I think there is a legitimate case to do something about Pro clubs too. For what it's worth, I think it's a shame. In an ideal world I'd agree with you and be happy to let everybody use that they want. It is what it is. |
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Post by grinder12000 on Feb 1, 2019 8:35:28 GMT -5
One question. Is there REALLY a problem now? Are you fixing something that is not broken for 95% of the players here?
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Post by ErixonStone on Feb 1, 2019 9:16:14 GMT -5
Theoretically, what would happen if all of CC was Pro Clubs only?
My hypothesis is that a lot of people would be clamoring to allow Master Clubs, and the rule would become Pro-Clubs-recommended-but-you-can-use-Master-if-you-want. That's what we already have.
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Post by mde8965 on Feb 1, 2019 9:21:38 GMT -5
I'm not following your logic here. I must be missing something. Right now, it is apples to oranges. I just think it needs to be apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Why is there a beginner's tour? Why is the master set only allowed on the PGA, Euro and Web.com? Level playing field. I'm crunching the data, but it is taking time. Hopefully, I will publish the data soon. But let me say this based on what I've completed so far. I've played master clubs since Q-School and nothing else in tournament rounds until this week. Presently, I'm leading CC-D after the second round. There is an advantage. Because all the good master players are in the top three tours? You play better with pro clubs obviously. So stick with them. The tours being separate due to how good you are tee to green sucks. Score should be the criteria - not how good you are tee to green. Players should play with whatever clubs give them the best score. If that’s pro and the top tour is (10% masters, 70% pro, 20% beginners) - so be it. Onus should be on HB to make the clubs more balanced No way no how. If they ever allowed pro clubs to be used on the top 3 tours you would have a mass exodus of the top 200 in this game at least. I can’t even imagine how toxic threads would be in PGA of pro and masters were mixed. “For all you putties who play with putty clubs” “Everyone gets a trophy mentality” On and on and on. Heck the short swinger supposed advantage gets downright mean. And that if any is a much smaller advantage than using Pro Clubs No need to break TGCT to try to get HB to fix difficulty/distance trade off between club sets. They won’t do it anyway. No need to break TGCT so that folks that are not good enough to score well with Masters can use Pro clubs and pretend they are as good as the elite in this game. I’m not putting myself into the elite category. I’m a middle of the road PGA player that makes most cuts and finishes in the 30-50 place. It just seems to me that folks that just have no interest in learning to use masters clubs and say things like “I play video games for fun and masters is too stressful” should be in a separate set of flights than the person who says “I struggle with masters clubs but I’m going to use them and practice my butt off to improve enough to eventually crack the top 3 tours and eventually be considered one of the elite”. I liken this to a hypothetical situation where the real life PGA were to let golfers tee off from red tees if they just didn’t want the stress of playing from the black. And yet these red tee players were on the same leaderboards and same money earnings potential as the black tee golfers. |
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) foisted upon us, "lesser mortals" I blame HB and it's a shame they put financial aims before gaming ideals (I don't really blame them for this) they want dollars and be known as those rich guys and not as those guys who made a brilliant Golf "Sim" I love it here and I'm a newb, only been here since last September and have been made to feel really welcome but surely unless the aim is to create an elitist TGCTours shouldn't ALL of the tours then have a mix of Pro and Masters clubs ? I'm just throwing out some of the jumbled up thoughts in my head, I really do appreciate all the hard work the guys do here at TGCT.
