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Post by Art Vandelay on Jan 27, 2019 22:38:37 GMT -5
The plan that XJ_Jagman is proposing in no way excludes anyone and in no way forces anyone to play with a club set that is undesirable for them. His plan would simply force SOME people to play in a different (and more fairly competitive, IMO) league. I think it is a good plan and I hope it gains traction around the time that the season ends. FYI I have zero say in anything regarding the tour’s future. I just thought it would make a good topic of discussion after crunching some data from weeks 5-11 on CC-Pro. Things could be modified off this proposal to make a better system too. Then crunch this data to add fuel to the fire: number of golfers using each club set on all the tours combined. |
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Post by XJ_Jagman on Jan 27, 2019 22:52:59 GMT -5
Or maybe Version 2?  |
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Post by XJ_Jagman on Jan 27, 2019 22:59:08 GMT -5
FYI I have zero say in anything regarding the tour’s future. I just thought it would make a good topic of discussion after crunching some data from weeks 5-11 on CC-Pro. Things could be modified off this proposal to make a better system too. Then crunch this data to add fuel to the fire: number of golfers using each club set on all the tours combined. I don't have all of that data as it takes a bit of time, BUT here is a little bit. For the record, I've used Masters since Week 1, but after pulling the data I switched to Pro this week.    |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 23:33:51 GMT -5
Some mighty good crunchin' there Jagman! The updated diagram looks awesome as well, let's hope the big guns take notice. At this stage I think the only valid argument against such a move is that it would be a logistical pain for the admins.
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Post by SmilingGoats on Jan 28, 2019 10:52:54 GMT -5
One thing I can guarantee...we're not renaming the tours. The rest may be up for discussion, but that's a non-starter.
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Post by mart280 on Jan 30, 2019 10:37:03 GMT -5
I think some of these suggestions are great, I am in CCam F division and really want to play in a division with a level playing field of just other Masters users but I'm not going to get all the way up to Web, it's just not going to happen, some might say use Pro clubs but I tried for many tournaments and I found they were making me lazy with the bigger margin of error and I wasn't enjoying the game as much and my scoring wasn't much better anyway, I've posted about this in the 2nd  Masters v Pro thread, just my tuppence ha'penny. |
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Post by zzfr33b1rdzz on Jan 30, 2019 13:27:07 GMT -5
The plan that XJ_Jagman is proposing in no way excludes anyone and in no way forces anyone to play with a club set that is undesirable for them. His plan would simply force SOME people to play in a different (and more fairly competitive, IMO) league. I think it is a good plan and I hope it gains traction around the time that the season ends. Unless you qualify for one of the 'pro' only tiers and prefer to use master clubs, then what? |
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Post by Giraffe72 on Jan 30, 2019 13:39:56 GMT -5
The plan that XJ_Jagman is proposing in no way excludes anyone and in no way forces anyone to play with a club set that is undesirable for them. His plan would simply force SOME people to play in a different (and more fairly competitive, IMO) league. I think it is a good plan and I hope it gains traction around the time that the season ends. Unless you qualify for one of the 'pro' only tiers and prefer to use master clubs, then what? I think the plan (as I understand it) is to split the CC Tours in to Pro and Masters and you play the one you prefer. You may qualify for the last Masters Tour or the top Pro one, but you still play whichever one you prefer against others all using the same clubset.
The more I've thought about it the more I like the general idea that has been presented here. I prefer to play Masters too and have done since the game came out, but I've reluctantly decided to drop to Pro next week. It just feels like I'm playing a completely different game to the one being played by upwards of half the people on the same leaderboard as me. I'd rather stick to Masters but if I want to compete I feel like I have no choice but to change. This is not TGCT's fault in any way, but I think they need to look at the stats and make a decision. I suppose at the end of the day it comes down to how easy it would be to program and administer.
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Post by Crazy Croc on Jan 30, 2019 14:04:19 GMT -5
I prefer the status quo over the suggestion because currently one has the freedom to choose at any given point - even mid-tourney if one wants to. One may never change one's current choice but one will always have that freedom to choose in the back of one's mind.
The alternative will be one choice and then be stuck with it for better or for worse.
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Post by illinoisgator on Jan 30, 2019 17:33:23 GMT -5
I have always supported the idea of having Masters only tour as a way to earn your way up to the true masters only pro ranks. As a masters club user i would prefer to play against those using the same clubs because i want to earn my way to the Web. I understand why some want to use Pro. But what i don't understand is why those using Pro clubs have a problem being put into their own tour? Is it just because the flight has an A or B next to it vs a lower letter or a Pro A or whatever next to it? If your goal is to play at the highest level you can with pro clubs then a pro only tour should be just fine. If you want to work your way up to the PGA, Euro, or Web then use masters. It's actually quite simple.
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Epiphanic
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 77
TGCT Name: Nicholas Aakre
Tour: CC-Am/TST
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Post by Epiphanic on Jan 30, 2019 17:34:52 GMT -5
I prefer the status quo over the suggestion because currently one has the freedom to choose at any given point - even mid-tourney if one wants to. One may never change one's current choice but one will always have that freedom to choose in the back of one's mind. The alternative will be one choice and then be stuck with it for better or for worse. This, to me, is the biggest issue with complete clubset segregation. It's not an insolvable problem, but it is less flexible than the current system. Although, what's the percentage of people who have switched club sets (either Pro -> Master or Master -> Pro) compared to the general population. If people are "fixed" in their preferred club choice, then this issue isn't as big of a deal. |
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Post by illinoisgator on Jan 30, 2019 18:13:32 GMT -5
I prefer the status quo over the suggestion because currently one has the freedom to choose at any given point - even mid-tourney if one wants to. One may never change one's current choice but one will always have that freedom to choose in the back of one's mind. The alternative will be one choice and then be stuck with it for better or for worse. This, to me, is the biggest issue with complete clubset segregation. It's not an insolvable problem, but it is less flexible than the current system. Although, what's the percentage of people who have switched club sets (either Pro -> Master or Master -> Pro) compared to the general population. If people are "fixed" in their preferred club choice, then this issue isn't as big of a deal. I have stuck with masters throughout so i haven't done it myself but i have seen posts of people that have gone from masters to pro mid tournament to try and keep from getting a demotion mark if they had a rough start. Not sure why anyone would be switching back and forth mid tournament for any other reason...wouldn't really make sense. |
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Post by Celtic Wolf on Jan 30, 2019 18:56:42 GMT -5
I'll trust the TGC Tours guys to make the right decision if this is something that gets discussed by them. But I think the amount of players that visit the forums is a small number of the actual participants unless there is a lot of lurkers. They will only find out how this move would go down by applying it then checking if player numbers are affected.
I don't know if trialling it out in our own competitions in CC would help, i.e. running a competition for just Pro club players?
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Post by illinoisgator on Jan 31, 2019 0:08:50 GMT -5
I would love to hear a real viable reason pro clubs users would have an issue with this. Why would moving them to their own tour make them quit? It's still TGC tours competition but just a level playing field. Kind of like the beginner clubs tour they have their own tour and a very competitive tour so what is different?
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Post by Tenahka on Jan 31, 2019 0:52:09 GMT -5
First off, Let me say that I really like the concept XJ_JagmanNow to play devils advocate  I read a comment earlier on that Master users in the CC ranks are hard done by, they are using the master clubs to get better and it is costing them a chance at promotion...... How are they hard done by if they are willingly making the choice to use master clubs?? There is always the option of using pro clubs, getting promoted all the way up to Web and then switching to master clubs, after all it takes 5 demo marks to get knocked down a flight, so if (and only if there are enough players each week) you finish worse than 140th every week on the Web, it will still take you 3 weeks to get demoted. surely 3 weeks practicing and playing with master clubs would be enough, and that is NOT including all the times they could be practicing while still using pro clubs to work their way up.... With this being said, I give full credit to all of those sticking with master clubs in the CC ranks, and I also hope you will all take part in the Promo event in a fortnight to hopefully jump up a few flights in your chase of glory. Good luck and god speed  |
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Masters v Pro thread, just my tuppence ha'penny. 
