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Post by Brighttail on Nov 19, 2018 17:37:22 GMT -5
On guy on CC-A is up near the top of the leaderboard using beginner clubs and he’s rated 106 on WGR if that’s not taking the piss I don’t know what is. Edit: you can’t tell me the games that different that he can’t at least use Pro Clubs. 100% with you on this, hence why I thought the admin would take this by a case by case difference. He would get the auto promotion. I was more thinking about the 85 year old friend, who has been playing on TGCTours for 4 years and his greatest time was moving out of CC-Z last year. He plays beginner clubs because of his age and dexterity that is all that he really can play effectively. So I agree, take out the people abusing the system but I just felt that if we limited it to the CC-am events, then those who honestly play at that level, can still play with others on other clubs sets like they always have been able to do. Letting them do so won't stop anyone who wants to move up to CC-Pro levels.  |
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Post by lessangster on Nov 19, 2018 17:38:31 GMT -5
On guy on CC-A is up near the top of the leaderboard using beginner clubs and he’s rated 106 on WGR if that’s not taking the piss I don’t know what is. Edit: you can’t tell me the games that different that he can’t at least use Pro Clubs. 100% with you on this, hence why I thought the admin would take this by a case by case difference. He would get the auto promotion. I was more thinking about the 85 year old friend, who has been playing on TGCTours for 4 years and his greatest time was moving out of CC-Z last year. He plays beginner clubs because of his age and dexterity that is all that he really can play effectively. So I agree, take out the people abusing the system but I just felt that if we limited it to the CC-am events, then those who honestly play at that level, can still play with others on other clubs sets like they always have been able to do. Letting them do so won't stop anyone who wants to move up to CC-Pro levels. Agreed again |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2018 17:40:31 GMT -5
I am sure Admin had the CC-Am only for beginners as an option.
I am also sure that beginner club users are not locked into that choice for the season either, and can choose to compete on the regular tours with Pro/Master clubs at some point that they choose.
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Post by Brighttail on Nov 19, 2018 17:44:41 GMT -5
I am sure Admin had the CC-Am only for beginners as an option. I am also sure that beginner club users are not locked into that choice for the season either, and can choose to compete on the regular tours with Pro/Master clubs at some point that they choose. I hope they will look at this again. In talking with some of the effected folks they truly believe that they are being punished for some reason.  Maybe they will try the pros, maybe they will get better. I guess we'll see how many people actually take part on a weekly basis in the beginners tour vs how many either just stop playing the tours or actually take the leap to pro clubs. My fear is that there was already a certain stigma in being in the CC-Z tour and playing in CC-Beginner may actually feel worse for them. |
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Post by lessangster on Nov 19, 2018 17:45:11 GMT -5
A friend of mine loves the game but he also has way to many other games in his collection to play, he’s not like me I love the game but also have other games but I concentrate on playing the golf club first then any spare time I have then I play my other games. He plays with beginners but he can’t even break par with them that’s the sort of player that should be playing them not someone that’s say-in the top 200 of WGR.
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Post by Brighttail on Nov 19, 2018 17:55:03 GMT -5
Basically no one playing with beginners clubs should be in the top 1000-1500 of the WGR, maybe lower in my opinion. Of course if they are starting off higher that number would be skewed but if we have 2000 active players I'd say the lower 25% at best.
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Post by runicstarfish on Nov 19, 2018 18:37:36 GMT -5
I do feel sorry for those who play with beginner clubs and truly enjoy the experience of being able to play the game. They were told to come over here and join in on the fun and we'd welcome them with open arms. They were told they could play in the Q-school and earn their way all the way up to and through the CC-ranks. They played by all the rules and then one day, without notice or consultation, BOOM! Everything has changed. They are being shunned, relegated to the back of the bus and segregated to their own tour with all the previous promises of chances of promotion rescinded and negated. Now anyone who actually has followed some of these threads and looked at the leaderboard has to understand that there are some people taking advantage of the beginner clubs. They know they can shoot -18 with them and care only for the trophies and running up the score. To those people I believe they are in violation of the 'spirit of the rules' here. But to the other people. I'm thinking to an 76 year old friend who has been playing here since TGC 1, who made it partially through the CC tours last year and has been quite literally a staple of the community in playing every week he can and doing it for the love of the game. It is to him and others like him who use beginner clubs because with those clubs they can more times than not be under par and thus feel like they are playing a game where they can beat the COURSE. They don't care so much how others do, but a few have their competitive edge still around. They like seeing themself progress and get better which is why they still use beginner clubs. They've tried pro clubs but at their age and their own set of ability, it isn't as fun and more often than not they are over par. Why don't they put in more time and learn pro clubs? Some don't have the time, others the stamina, the physical ability with their hands or they have just lived long enough that they feel they shouldn't be told what to do. For whatever reason it is for these people I wish I could wave a magic wand and identify them. These are the folks that aren't going to be abusing the rules, who aren't hurting anyone and who would sooner quit the game than to do anything that would cheat anyone else. They are mostly the quiet people that most here wouldn't know existed, who don't complain, who post very little other than to post a good score they managed to hit. These are the people who took TGCTours promises seriously and felt they still had a place here where they could play. Personally I wish there were more public consultation on this, I know why there wasn't cause there were hundreds if not thousands of posts on the subject. Still a case by case basis might have been a worthy consideration than an all out ban on beginner clubs. There was a time when this tour was small enough that Doyley and Jeff knew pretty much everyone on a first name basis but now the site has gotten so big such rules end up impacting those that really did nothing to deserve it. They just wanted to play the game with some people from around the world, using the clubs they genuinely are comfortable, all with a promise that they could and nothing changed...that was until it ended up changing. All that being said, I know why things were done. I wish it would have been done differently. The admin here aren't perfect but were a number of better solutions that what came out. Ones that were more inclusive and more compassionate to a segment of the player base that we should be celebrating not segregating. Some very important information here, "They were told they could play in the Q-school and earn their way all the way up to and through the CC-ranks. They played by all the rules and then one day, without notice or consultation, BOOM! Everything has changed. They are being shunned, relegated to the back of the bus and segregated to their own tour with all the previous promises of chances of promotion rescinded and negated." They just wanted to play the game with some people from around the world, using the clubs they genuinely are comfortable, all with a promise that they could and nothing changed...that was until it ended up changing. The admin here aren't perfect but were a number of better solutions that what came out Ones that were more inclusive and more compassionate to a segment of the player base that we should be celebrating not segregating.On a daily basis I play with player(s)who use beginner clubs, I use Pro, others use Master and they are the best games because we do not exclude because of club choice. Guess what, the beginner clubs don't always win, nor do the master clubs.. depends on the day and who is shooting best golf at that time.
As far as I am concerned, beginner clubs should be allowed In CC AM until they reach CC-D and then must use Pro CC A to CC C. Just like Pro must play Masters to reach the Web Tour. And Master clubs should not be allowed from CC-A down to Z after all it is the Pro/Am tour. Well it would mean? Simple everyone will have a goal to reach with whatever club set they choose. Stop the segregation. If a Pro player like myself loses to a beginner player in the tour I am not about to whine that they are using baby clubs, I will accept it knowing their course management was better than mine. My two cents. Totally agree ... I posted something similar to this on page 7. |
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Post by Brighttail on Nov 19, 2018 18:56:26 GMT -5
I wanted to add here I had incorrectly assumed that they had data from the exhibition events that would have allowed them to better see what some people were doing with beginner's clubs. I was wrong on that account and apologize. The admin also made no specific promises to anyone. They put forth a series of rules in a document with a plan to move forward. Once Q-school and the first event was played, the data suggested that there was an issue with the beginner club set and thus they changed their rules and policies based on the data they had. I in no way believe that the admins had any malicious intent on their part when coming up with the new policy. I again apologize if my posts indicated otherwise.
I still believe that there are a group of players here that through no fault of their own, have been caught up in an unfortunate set of circumstances. I also believe that these players have a valid argument. They played q-school, followed the rules and feel they are being relegated to a tour that is even below the CC-Z tour and that makes them feel pretty bad. I believe that we are talking about .5% of the overall population here and that allowing them to play in the CC-AM events with the beginner club sets wouldn't be a bad thing, provided they also agree that the admin can promote any player they deem is either abusing the club set or has simply become too good for the CC-AM tour. It would be fairly obvious to see a person hitting the top end of the CC-Am tour that is consistently winning or in the top 5-10% of the tour over a few weeks.
In the end, if monitored correctly I don't think there will be folks taking advantage of this issue and if there are, like any other rule, there would be consequences.
Anyway just wanted to clear up any misconceptions or misunderstanding from my original post on this issue.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2018 19:50:13 GMT -5
Let us all play the beginner tour - be nice to have a second tournament each week 👍
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Post by martbloke on Nov 19, 2018 20:13:56 GMT -5
Simple solution - TGCT do a handicap system. Problem solved. Sandbagging you say? Well IMO why would you sandbag in competitive play? You purposely play awful for a couple of weeks to try and get a better handicap to smash 1 weekly tournament? True but then don't make it winner of tournament promotes. Make it 2 wins or something. That way the handicap can adjust after smashing the 1 week tournament to make it harder to win the 2nd.
This way everyone can play whatever clubs they like. Handicap will make it an even playing field.
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Post by raknal on Nov 19, 2018 22:03:56 GMT -5
Well after playing TGC1 and TGC2 playing in CCB usually, I now have to join the beginners club. Using a PC with mouse from day 1. In TGC2019 i am unable to even use beginners clubs in a competitive manner. Using Pro clubs for the 1st 2 rounds of the current tournament and I am 19+.
I really enjoyed playing in the previous 2 versions, but the currently have no enjoyment at all. I dont see why I should have to purchase a separate platform to play so am stuck with a lot of other mouse users in my situation I believe
Richard
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Post by Brighttail on Nov 19, 2018 23:15:55 GMT -5
Well after playing TGC1 and TGC2 playing in CCB usually, I now have to join the beginners club. Using a PC with mouse from day 1. In TGC2019 i am unable to even use beginners clubs in a competitive manner. Using Pro clubs for the 1st 2 rounds of the current tournament and I am 19+. I really enjoyed playing in the previous 2 versions, but the currently have no enjoyment at all. I dont see why I should have to purchase a separate platform to play so am stuck with a lot of other mouse users in my situation I believe Richard Hopefully the mouse tweak they have promised in the next update will help you. |
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Post by zzfr33b1rdzz on Nov 20, 2018 2:31:05 GMT -5
Rules in place. FREE community. Like it. Don't like it. Stay and comply. Leave and goodbye.....
....but for the love of god PLEASE stop already!!
Choose where you want to compete and try to get there. A Beginner Club tour is still a place to compete. When you get bored shooting -80 every week, there's always the other tours. CHOICE!
As I stated like a hundred pages ago, no matter what clubs you CHOOSE, you still have to flick the stick back and forth, or move your mouse however the hell you move it.
I'll see all my fellow F'ers on the course...FORE!! VF/P coming your way.....
EDIT: I realize there are some beginner club users that are legit where they are placed, there will always be someone somewhere abusing the system. Unfortunately it's the bad apples that spoil the bunch.
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Post by steamerandy64 on Nov 20, 2018 5:30:12 GMT -5
Well after playing TGC1 and TGC2 playing in CCB usually, I now have to join the beginners club. Using a PC with mouse from day 1. In TGC2019 i am unable to even use beginners clubs in a competitive manner. Using Pro clubs for the 1st 2 rounds of the current tournament and I am 19+. I really enjoyed playing in the previous 2 versions, but the currently have no enjoyment at all. I dont see why I should have to purchase a separate platform to play so am stuck with a lot of other mouse users in my situation I believe Richard Apparently hb are addressing the mouse issues, but bearing in mind hb couldn't address an envelope, don't get your hopes up. |
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Post by stevebly1975 on Nov 20, 2018 5:40:36 GMT -5
Rules in place. FREE community. Like it. Don't like it. Stay and comply. Leave and goodbye..... ....but for the love of god PLEASE stop already!! Choose where you want to compete and try to get there. A Beginner Club tour is still a place to compete. When you get bored shooting -80 every week, there's always the other tours. CHOICE! As I stated like a hundred pages ago, no matter what clubs you CHOOSE, you still have to flick the stick back and forth, or move your mouse however the hell you move it. I'll see all my fellow F'ers on the course...FORE!! VF/P coming your way..... EDIT: I realize there are some beginner club users that are legit where they are placed, there will always be someone somewhere abusing the system. Unfortunately it's the bad apples that spoil the bunch. Well Said!
I use begineer clubs, i've tried using Pro but didnt have the same enjoyment, its not the winning for me its the competing. If they want to start a begineers tour to make it fair then thats where i'll be. If boredom sets in and i want a challenge then i'll go through Q School again and use Pro clubs.
I don't find it a punishment at all it's just making things fair and as you quite rightly say, it's a choice!
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Maybe they will try the pros, maybe they will get better. I guess we'll see how many people actually take part on a weekly basis in the beginners tour vs how many either just stop playing the tours or actually take the leap to pro clubs. My fear is that there was already a certain stigma in being in the CC-Z tour and playing in CC-Beginner may actually feel worse for them. 
