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Post by Brighttail on Jun 30, 2018 12:53:26 GMT -5
We have to remember that our little TGCT society is probably less that 5% of their base. We got what, maybe 5000 people and they are making a game they want to sell 100,000 or more units? So I get we'd like to think we are the center of the world but we aren't. HB is concerned about game launching bugs right now. They have a set date that they will launch and everything is focused on getting it out with the features they feel the other 95% will want. Everything else falls on a list of importance from low, to medium, to high, to game-breaking. Allowing people to turn off previews in a society or for master level clubs I imagine is on the LOW list.
Remember the ghost breaks? That was listed as LOW priority for two reasons. First they would have had to rewrite a massive amount of code in the Unity engine to fix it and those resources were best used else where and two it wasn't game breaking. Because it happened on only a few shots per round and not on every course (much of it depended on the course designer and how they built their greens) it again wasn't worth the effort.
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Post by mcbogga on Jun 30, 2018 17:25:58 GMT -5
We have to remember that our little TGCT society is probably less that 5% of their base. We got what, maybe 5000 people and they are making a game they want to sell 100,000 or more units? So I get we'd like to think we are the center of the world but we aren't. HB is concerned about game launching bugs right now. They have a set date that they will launch and everything is focused on getting it out with the features they feel the other 95% will want. Everything else falls on a list of importance from low, to medium, to high, to game-breaking. Allowing people to turn off previews in a society or for master level clubs I imagine is on the LOW list.
Remember the ghost breaks? That was listed as LOW priority for two reasons. First they would have had to rewrite a massive amount of code in the Unity engine to fix it and those resources were best used else where and two it wasn't game breaking. Because it happened on only a few shots per round and not on every course (much of it depended on the course designer and how they built their greens) it again wasn't worth the effort.
If they want mass market appeal they need to ditch the way they currently handle difficulty levels. TGCT is quite a bit more than 5% of the TGC base right now. The key issue is that HB shows little consideration for a site that has pretty much carried the franchise. It is not difficult to write a simple statement into a requirement specification about adding optionality in tournament set up, and it is extremely unlikely that adding such optionality means significant development time given that it is clear in the requirements. The fact that this has not been done speaks volumes about the lack of understanding at HB about the wants from the TGCT community. That in turn will lead to plenty more disappointment for us. For pretty much no reason as we are not asking for much, really. And there has never been any ghost breaks, there is a bug in the way the grid is drawn on the greens. Bad code but a minor issue. Certainly it is not dependent in any way on the course designers. Putting any responsibility for it on designers is just ridiculous. There is a big difference between glitches and bugs in a game and design decisions that shape the direction of a franchise - and right now we are seeing decisions that are against what the TGCT community has been built around. The continuation of this trend will result in the erosion of TGCT into a generic gaming league for an arcade video game. I’d like to think it’s more than that. That is why we do not need to remember that TGCT is only a part of the TGC user base. TGCT staying on TGC2 for the next season would be a good thing, the way things are developing. |
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Post by lessangster on Jun 30, 2018 17:45:16 GMT -5
I will be embracing the new game wether TGC comes across or not if that means I drop out of TGC then so be it.
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Post by mcbogga on Jun 30, 2018 17:51:01 GMT -5
I will be embracing the new game wether TGC comes across or not if that means I drop out of TGC then so be it. Did you participate in the “stress test”? |
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Post by lessangster on Jun 30, 2018 17:55:12 GMT -5
I will be embracing the new game wether TGC comes across or not if that means I drop out of TGC then so be it. Did you participate in the “stress test”? No what’s that got to do with it just because your one of the PC Elite go troll someone else |
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Post by Brighttail on Jun 30, 2018 22:48:00 GMT -5
I don't think HB needs to cater to TGCT at all. While I appreciate we may be the largest, organized enthusiasts out there, if we went away, all of us, HB would not take as big of a hit as you might think. I've been a part of many betas and seen this over and over in games over the years, the hard core competitors may be some of the most passionate and do require recognition but in the end if you look at a game like Overwatch, are the makers of the game going to change up an entire game to cater to the people who play it competitively for money, or the 99% of the rest of the world who enjoy it more casually?
Now I do believe that HB does count on us for things like the Stress test and pushing the game to limits that most normal consumers won't but they have their own plan and marketing strategies. If our requests/suggestions don't fit into that then we will be relegated to the 'low priority' queue.
As for the putting 'glitch' if it were a minor bug or fix, the developers would have fixed it back in tgc 1. It is not. Anthony told me personally before he left that it was an issue between their code and the Unity engine that would require an entire overhaul of the game design to fix. Considering putting was one of the things they brought from TGC 1 to TGC 2, it is obvious why it was never fixed. Despite it effecting everyone, it simply wasn't worth HB to ever correct it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2018 0:17:15 GMT -5
I don't think HB needs to cater to TGCT at all. While I appreciate we may be the largest, organized enthusiasts out there, if we went away, all of us, HB would not take as big of a hit as you might think. I've been a part of many betas and seen this over and over in games over the years, the hard core competitors may be some of the most passionate and do require recognition but in the end if you look at a game like Overwatch, are the makers of the game going to change up an entire game to cater to the people who play it competitively for money, or the 99% of the rest of the world who enjoy it more casually?
Now I do believe that HB does count on us for things like the Stress test and pushing the game to limits that most normal consumers won't but they have their own plan and marketing strategies. If our requests/suggestions don't fit into that then we will be relegated to the 'low priority' queue.
As for the putting 'glitch' if it were a minor bug or fix, the developers would have fixed it back in tgc 1. It is not. Anthony told me personally before he left that it was an issue between their code and the Unity engine that would require an entire overhaul of the game design to fix. Considering putting was one of the things they brought from TGC 1 to TGC 2, it is obvious why it was never fixed. Despite it effecting everyone, it simply wasn't worth HB to ever correct it.
It affects no one that has the grids off. |
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Post by Brighttail on Jul 1, 2018 12:56:31 GMT -5
At this point everyone who uses grids should be taking them with a grain of salt and using the worm cam anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2018 13:01:04 GMT -5
At this point everyone who uses grids should be taking them with a grain of salt and using the worm cam anyway.Yes, and doing this while lining up the bottom of the screen with each gridline is the norm of many players for a more accurate reading. |
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Post by mcbogga on Jul 1, 2018 16:19:17 GMT -5
I don't think HB needs to cater to TGCT at all. While I appreciate we may be the largest, organized enthusiasts out there, if we went away, all of us, HB would not take as big of a hit as you might think. I've been a part of many betas and seen this over and over in games over the years, the hard core competitors may be some of the most passionate and do require recognition but in the end if you look at a game like Overwatch, are the makers of the game going to change up an entire game to cater to the people who play it competitively for money, or the 99% of the rest of the world who enjoy it more casually?
Now I do believe that HB does count on us for things like the Stress test and pushing the game to limits that most normal consumers won't but they have their own plan and marketing strategies. If our requests/suggestions don't fit into that then we will be relegated to the 'low priority' queue.
As for the putting 'glitch' if it were a minor bug or fix, the developers would have fixed it back in tgc 1. It is not. Anthony told me personally before he left that it was an issue between their code and the Unity engine that would require an entire overhaul of the game design to fix. Considering putting was one of the things they brought from TGC 1 to TGC 2, it is obvious why it was never fixed. Despite it effecting everyone, it simply wasn't worth HB to ever correct it.
Of course they don’t need to care about TGCT. But they should. Blizzard has and are changing up Overwatch all the time to cater to competitive play. It’s to a large degree what they balance the game around. But any Overwatch/TGC comparisons are not very relevant. The putting issue is not effecting everyone. I have not had any problems with it. Just turn the grid off and the issue is not there. I use that AK explanation as well sometimes to end long discussions and non value added back and forth about issues that are known but won’t be fixed anytime soon. It’s quite effective. |
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Post by paulus on Jul 1, 2018 16:40:08 GMT -5
If TGC became an e-sport, HB would v quickly prioritise the competitive end of things. Don't see that happening tho... the game is just not very exciting to watch...
Right now sales & real world constraints dictate their best strategy is to prioritise for the widest possible audience. Just the way things are.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2018 17:19:22 GMT -5
I do think people see AK as this messiah and everything wrong with TGC2 is despite him. If he had his way we would all be playing(one club set) such as player clubs and with grids locked on
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Post by DivotMaker on Jul 1, 2018 17:44:24 GMT -5
I do think people see AK as this messiah and everything wrong with TGC2 is despite him. If he had his way we would all be playing(one club set) such as player clubs and with grids locked on The design of TGC2 was mostly from his leadership..... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2018 18:32:53 GMT -5
Brighttail - I think you make all excellent points, and from my perspective, nothing you have stated about the HB goals to sell to a massive audience outside of TGCT is wrong. Here's what I think is missing, and where the wires might be getting crossed... What would be the harm in them doing all of the things they are doing to appeal to the 99% of people that you guys say buy the game but don't join TGCT, but then STILL do simple things in the code like being able to turn off putt preview? I guess where I'm confused is, why is it so complicated to appeal to BOTH audiences, because it's not like TGCT people are asking for a different game altogether, we're just wanting the SIM portions of the game to still be an option for our community. Personally, I don't mind at all if there is a huge community that loves to play arcade modes, and honestly, as a designer in the game, that's a HUGE amount of people that I hope are enjoying my courses, too. I simply don't understand why there would need to be any adversity to either community though, if proper planning was done all along in the coding/programming process to be inclusive to the few simple needs that the TGCT people like too. Maybe I'm missing something, but that's my perspective.
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Post by jacobkessler on Jul 1, 2018 19:15:37 GMT -5
I’d finish it. I’m still not sure I’m buying TGC19 at release rather than waiting a couple days for the reviews to come in.
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