don't go for par 5 in two

[Deleted]

Jan 26, 2015 13:46:33 GMT -5 Garno said:

My €0.02

In real golf...
Aiming for a green side bunker is something I am not afraid to do when faced with long approach to a tricked out green.
The green side bunker shot is a simple one to hit, easier than a flop or pitch from heavy rough. Even out of deep bunkers a nicely splashed ball will spin quite a bit.
However a lag putt is not something I am afraid of, drop me 100ft from the hole, €5 says I get it down in 2.
I almost always avoid hitting a flop shot from a tight lie, usually opting to hit a little skip and check type shot instead.

My personal issue with the putting in the game is I just can develop the same sense of feel on the long putts, and before the golden chosen few start toting my apparent suck factor, it's just something I struggle with in the game, and not for lack of practice. I have practised, and practised some more, but the results I get are inconsistent at best. I am a fairly decent putter within 30 feet, but outside of that I struggle.

A flop shot is a bold shot to hit in the real world, and one that you wouldn't choose to play very often(at least I don't). I like to use the green and roll the ball to the hole rather than lofting it all the way to the flag. In TGC the ball just doesn't react the way I would expect it to on the green. To me it feels like the ball flights pretty accurately to how it does in real life, but once it lands it seems like it weighs 5 pounds, thus forcing me to use the wildly spinning flop shot.

If HB were to penalize players hitting out of rough from around the green, and force players to hit the green, I think we would see scores normalize somewhat. There is quite a bit of guessing involved when you hit a flop shot in real life, especially when hitting out of heavy grass. I am not sure about everyone else, but I have not found any difference in shots hit from uphill, downhill, or flat lies. HB needs to take this into consideration as this greatly affects how the ball reacts on the green, and subsequently, how one would play the shot.

HB also needs to redo how a ball entering a bunker reacts. A full shot that flies directly into a bunker rarely plugs, rather it will bounce and tend to lay flat on top of the sand. This obviously depends on the trajectory of the shot hit and its angle of descent. The steeper the angle of descent, the greater the chance of a fried egg lie. A ball that bouncing once or twice before landing in the bunker will tend to sit down in the sand, and a ball rolling into the bunker, will almost always sit on top.

In summary, I have found myself playing the ball short of the green, and hitting a flop shot from the fairway, but not afraid of ending up in the heaviest of rough.

I Totally agree, a flop shot is a high risk shot and even more so out of heavy rough. In real life I am pretty good at hitting the ball lower such as playing under the wind but I haven't got a clue how to put more loft on my full shot irons like we can in this game,how do you do it play them irl,put the ball more forward in your stance? any tips for real life golf would be greatly appreciated. I usually just hit a full shot or go up a club and hit an easy swing when I am in between clubs irl.

[thrangar]

Jan 25, 2015 16:46:03 GMT -5 @tastegw said:

Jan 25, 2015 16:01:51 GMT -5 betweentheeyez2 said:

I went for a par 5 on coyote in two only to be left with a 75 foot putt that was missing 40 feet of grid.  I was tempted to flop but putted instead and went 20 feet past the hole to take a 5.  This is unfair as HB doesn't wanna fix it and it's a dq in this tour now.  I will lay up on most par 5s so this doesn't happen.

whats wrong with it that hb needs to fix?

you can't get it close from 75 feet out?  if you went 20 feet past the hole, you hit it too hard.  3 putts are a reality, live and learn.   You are only hurting yourself by laying up as you take nearly all the possibility of an eagle out of the equation.

This/\  HB needs to fix it not TGCTOURS , also I just noticed this morning over on the .com site that there was a rule change some where between sat and sunday, halfway through the tournaments, and while I assume you guys did not get an email like I did, this is a no class move!

Should have waited until an email was out and before the start of a new tournament, I will be watching this closely as I feel this is wrong!

[Pubknight]

Jan 26, 2015 14:57:17 GMT -5 thrangar said:

This/\  HB needs to fix it not TGCTOURS , also I just noticed this morning over on the .com site that there was a rule change some where between sat and sunday, halfway through the tournaments, and while I assume you guys did not get an email like I did, this is a no class move!

Should have waited until an email was out and before the start of a new tournament, I will be watching this closely as I feel this is wrong!

If you are talking about the chipping on green rule, that email was sent out January 23rd.
A few days before the official W04 tournaments opened, and a day before play could commence in them.
The policy has had a banner at the top of the main page since it was announced, along with a stickied thread in each forum.
It was communicated about as well and as completely as it could possibly have been.

[Brighttail]

Jan 26, 2015 14:57:17 GMT -5 thrangar said:

Jan 25, 2015 16:46:03 GMT -5 @tastegw said:

whats wrong with it that hb needs to fix?

you can't get it close from 75 feet out?  if you went 20 feet past the hole, you hit it too hard.  3 putts are a reality, live and learn.   You are only hurting yourself by laying up as you take nearly all the possibility of an eagle out of the equation.

This/\  HB needs to fix it not TGCTOURS , also I just noticed this morning over on the .com site that there was a rule change some where between sat and sunday, halfway through the tournaments, and while I assume you guys did not get an email like I did, this is a no class move!

Should have waited until an email was out and before the start of a new tournament, I will be watching this closely as I feel this is wrong!

The rule change I believe you saw was about chipping on the greens. While it came out over the weekend, it was stated it would NOT go into affect until this week's tournaments, so it was allowed in the tournaments last week.

The game is far from perfect, but it is still a pretty good game.  I find it amazing that some people complain about how easy flop shots are and how unrealistic it is (and I'm one of those who believe this, especially from the rough) but they forget all the other parts of the game we use on a daily/weekly basis that really are equally as unrealistic. Things like:

- Wind meters
- Knowing the exact distance at any point on the course to the pin
- Knowing the slope of the green, down to the last detail using the grid.
- Using a scout cam
- Using the scout cam to look at how your ghost opponents may play the shot or how their ball rolls on the green
- Watching the ghost opponents as they hit at the same time as you rather than in a specified turn order
- Having instantaneous feed back of how straight your swing is, thus knowing what you may have to correct instantaneously.
- Being able to flop, with backspin out of heavy rough, sand.
- Having any type of grids period.
- Having everyone be able to hit every shot like everyone else with no consideration of size, weight, strength, skill of that person

Simply put, if this was "real golf' which I hear the term being used so loosely, we wouldn't have any of this stuff.  So saying HB needs to fix flop shots cause some people believe they are too easy and have no purpose in the game, is silly cause then everything else should be taken out.  There are many things that HB NEEDS to fix before "flopping/chipping" like:

- Allowing a player to take a drop if they are behind a rock
- Since we are allowing all types of grids that we can see 250yards from us, lets have a grid showing the slope that we are standing on that will effect the ball flight right/left
- Atmospheric conditions like rain/fog/dampness that will change a green speed
- Making sure if you start a round with a 15mph wind, even if you wait for 4 hours or quit and come back it stays at 15mph!

[Garno]

Jan 26, 2015 15:20:55 GMT -5 Brighttail said:

Jan 26, 2015 14:57:17 GMT -5 thrangar said:

This/\  HB needs to fix it not TGCTOURS , also I just noticed this morning over on the .com site that there was a rule change some where between sat and sunday, halfway through the tournaments, and while I assume you guys did not get an email like I did, this is a no class move!

Should have waited until an email was out and before the start of a new tournament, I will be watching this closely as I feel this is wrong!

The rule change I believe you saw was about chipping on the greens. While it came out over the weekend, it was stated it would NOT go into affect until this week's tournaments, so it was allowed in the tournaments last week.

The game is far from perfect, but it is still a pretty good game.  I find it amazing that some people complain about how easy flop shots are and how unrealistic it is (and I'm one of those who believe this, especially from the rough) but they forget all the other parts of the game we use on a daily/weekly basis that really are equally as unrealistic. Things like:

- Wind meters - Toss blades of grass
- Knowing the exact distance at any point on the course to the pin - Range finder and or GPS. If in professional tournaments, yardage books, pin sheets, and the good ol' pythagorean theorem
- Knowing the slope of the green, down to the last detail using the grid. - Sight and feel irl work far better
- Using a scout cam - you have me on this one, lol
- Using the scout cam to look at how your ghost opponents may play the shot or how their ball rolls on the green - got me again
- Watching the ghost opponents as they hit at the same time as you rather than in a specified turn order - I always like having the "honour" irl
- Having instantaneous feed back of how straight your swing is, thus knowing what you may have to correct instantaneously. - n/a
- Being able to flop, with backspin out of heavy rough, sand. - HB needs to fix this, see my previous post
- Having any type of grids period. - Sight and feel irl work far better
- Having everyone be able to hit every shot like everyone else with no consideration of size, weight, strength, skill of that person - YES, THIS!!!

Simply put, if this was "real golf' which I hear the term being used so loosely, we wouldn't have any of this stuff.  So saying HB needs to fix flop shots cause some people believe they are too easy and have no purpose in the game, is silly cause then everything else should be taken out.  There are many things that HB NEEDS to fix before "flopping/chipping" like:

- Allowing a player to take a drop if they are behind a rock - and other basic and fundamental rule issues (red/yellow staked water hazards)
- Since we are allowing all types of grids that we can see 250yards from us, lets have a grid showing the slope that we are standing on that will effect the ball flight right/left - Maybe remove the grid on the green for approach shots so you have to zoom in and actually look at the green to see the slopes and pick your landing spot. IRL you CAN do this by going up to the green and seeing/feeling the ground.
- Atmospheric conditions like rain/fog/dampness that will change a green speed - I would be in favour of this, but the "golden few"....
- Making sure if you start a round with a 15mph wind, even if you wait for 4 hours or quit and come back it stays at 15mph! *** I think it would be better to force everyone to play with the 15mph wind(or any specified amount) to ensure the same conditions for everyone to remove the obvious wind cheaters***

[Brighttail]

I'm glad you got my general meaning in my post. There is a lot about the game that is "unrealistic", hell simply being able to hit -15, -18, -20 under is unrealistic in itself. I think the best round on the PGA is still like 59 or 58 on most courses.

Back in 1999-2000 Microsoft came out with a game called Links. It was a fun game with a three click swing method. They had a world wide tournament for 100,000 dollars as prize money. The problem is the game was all mathematics. The greens had a grid and if you counted the little hashmarks on the break, you could add/subtract them to get the EXACT number of clicks you needed to move right or left. The best players in the world consistently scored -20 or better. All they had to do was do the math and make sure they could click three times for full power and a straight shot.

This game is the same. There is a formula for every shot. While the greens don't have hashmarks, they do have an indicator. If the slope indicator goes from one part of the grid to the other side in lets say two seconds, you click over 5 times. If it is 4 seconds then it is 2 time, ect. Have an uphill/downhill putt, another portion you add to the formula. In the end, all you need to do is key it in and hit the ball straight. Now not everyone uses this method of course, but I guarantee there are some that do. They have practiced so much, they have their charts, spreadsheets and calculators for every shot. I don't consider this cheating per se, but it definitely gives them an advantage. Some would say they earned this. But what if they give that information to their friend who didn't go through the countless hours. I think you can see where I am going.

In the end there is no way to make the game fair for all. Different people play the game differently. Some prefer chips, others pitches and others flops. Some like putting exact hole speed and using all the break, while others like putting a little harder to take the break out of it. This is why I get upset any time when rules are made to ban this or that, cause there is no one way to play and no 'proper' way to play. So no we can't ban flop shots, even though they are unrealistic.

[Deleted]

Jan 26, 2015 16:05:33 GMT -5 Brighttail said:

I'm glad you got my general meaning in my post. There is a lot about the game that is "unrealistic", hell simply being able to hit -15, -18, -20 under is unrealistic in itself. I think the best round on the PGA is still like 59 or 58 on most courses.

Back in 1999-2000 Microsoft came out with a game called Links. It was a fun game with a three click swing method. They had a world wide tournament for 100,000 dollars as prize money. The problem is the game was all mathematics. The greens had a grid and if you counted the little hashmarks on the break, you could add/subtract them to get the EXACT number of clicks you needed to move right or left. The best players in the world consistently scored -20 or better. All they had to do was do the math and make sure they could click three times for full power and a straight shot.

This game is the same. There is a formula for every shot. While the greens don't have hashmarks, they do have an indicator. If the slope indicator goes from one part of the grid to the other side in lets say two seconds, you click over 5 times. If it is 4 seconds then it is 2 time, ect. Have an uphill/downhill putt, another portion you add to the formula. In the end, all you need to do is key it in and hit the ball straight. Now not everyone uses this method of course, but I guarantee there are some that do. They have practiced so much, they have their charts, spreadsheets and calculators for every shot. I don't consider this cheating per se, but it definitely gives them an advantage. Some would say they earned this. But what if they give that information to their friend who didn't go through the countless hours. I think you can see where I am going.

In the end there is no way to make the game fair for all. Different people play the game differently. Some prefer chips, others pitches and others flops. Some like putting exact hole speed and using all the break, while others like putting a little harder to take the break out of it. This is why I get upset any time when rules are made to ban this or that, cause there is no one way to play and no 'proper' way to play. So no we can't ban flop shots, even though they are unrealistic.

I was unlucky never to have played links, I hear it was a lot better than the pga tour games. I have grown up playing 3 click this is the first game I have used a controller, I played with a move controller on Tiger Woods on ps3

[Deleted]

this




is




not



real




life

[Brighttail]

Jan 26, 2015 16:16:17 GMT -5 @tastegw said:

this




is




not



real




life

No it isn't... your point?

[Deleted]

really?

you just popped out an entire list of real life things that you are gripping about that the game doesnt fancy for you, or vice versa. and you dont get my point?

there is no help!!!!

[Brighttail]

Jan 26, 2015 16:31:28 GMT -5 @tastegw said:

really?

you just popped out an entire list of real life things that you are gripping about that the game doesnt fancy for you, or vice versa. and you dont get my point?

there is no help!!!!

My point is for those who say, "This is not real golf" should be okay then with the rules like they were when we started the tour.   Why? Cause  this isn't real golf

ON an aside note, here is a suggestion to Doyley. Since this is the largest tour for TGC.. ever consider approaching HB studios and see if there can be a liaison from HB to come here and look at suggestions and such?  We might even be able to get them to sponsor this tour in some way.

Just a thought.

[Garno]

Jan 26, 2015 16:37:13 GMT -5 Brighttail said:

ON an aside note, here is a suggestion to Doyley. Since this is the largest tour for TGC.. ever consider approaching HB studios and see if there can be a liaison from HB to come here and look at suggestions and such?  We might even be able to get them to sponsor this tour in some way.

Just a thought.

+1 for this excellent thought

[firstblitzer]

Jan 26, 2015 16:37:13 GMT -5 Brighttail said:

Jan 26, 2015 16:31:28 GMT -5 @tastegw said:

really?

you just popped out an entire list of real life things that you are gripping about that the game doesnt fancy for you, or vice versa. and you dont get my point?

there is no help!!!!

My point is for those who say, "This is not real golf" should be okay then with the rules like they were when we started the tour.   Why? Cause  this isn't real golf

ON an aside note, here is a suggestion to Doyley. Since this is the largest tour for TGC.. ever consider approaching HB studios and see if there can be a liaison from HB to come here and look at suggestions and such?  We might even be able to get them to sponsor this tour in some way.

Just a thought.

If you have genuine gripes with the game get off your backside and go post them on the official forum, that is what it is for..........................................

[Garno]

Jan 26, 2015 17:30:36 GMT -5 firstblitzer said:

Been there done that.

[Brighttail]

Jan 26, 2015 17:30:36 GMT -5 firstblitzer said:

Jan 26, 2015 16:37:13 GMT -5 Brighttail said:

My point is for those who say, "This is not real golf" should be okay then with the rules like they were when we started the tour.   Why? Cause  this isn't real golf

ON an aside note, here is a suggestion to Doyley. Since this is the largest tour for TGC.. ever consider approaching HB studios and see if there can be a liaison from HB to come here and look at suggestions and such?  We might even be able to get them to sponsor this tour in some way.

Just a thought.

If you have genuine gripes with the game get off your backside and go post them on the official forum, that is what it is for..........................................

You didn't read the locked thread on chipping on the green did ya.  Believe me if  I have something to say, I have no issues expressing it.

I'm more than happy to have a civil conversation and/or debate on a subject. What I do not have time for is hypocrites or those people who are so stubborn in their views that they are unwilling to truly discuss an issue or search for a compromise.