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Post by theclv24 on Jun 7, 2018 20:19:33 GMT -5
If I were to do this contest, one course that interests me is Hershey Golf Club - West Course, due to its rich tradition. It was designed by Maurice McCarthy, who doesn't have a very extensive profile from what I can tell, as he mostly designed in the PA, NY, and NJ area and seemed to have a parkland/municipal type style. But Hershey is near my home, I've played it many times, and it even claims Ben Hogan as their golf professional from 1941-1951. Although this course hosted the 1940 PGA Championship (won by Byron Nelson), it only measures at 6,860 yards from the back tees, which would be eaten alive on TGC Tours. My goal if allowed to do this course would be to make it an "inspired-by" course, extremely close in layout, sculpting, and parkland style (and would likely choose Autumn or Harvest within the game to match the local trees). But I would need to add an additional set of tees to add length to the course, which I'd be willing to do and their locations would be carefully chosen based on design and strategy of current club distances. What do you think theclv24 ? www.hersheycountryclub.com/golf/west-courseI have to say, those flyover animations are about as poorly done as I've ever seen. They start out extremely slow at the tee, and then pick up speed gradually, and by the time you get up to the greens to see the slopes, the thing is flying and abruptly ends. That tangent aside, I think the good doctor summed things up pretty accurately. If you think you might be interested in doing a fully accurate RCR, please do that and avoid the contest. A legit RCR is always preferred, from a user perspective, than a quasi-RCR. If you are interested in doing the contest, though, I would say there is a spectrum of options, and anything on the spectrum is acceptable. On one end would be something like my Detroit Golf Club rendition, Ross Club of Detroit. I pretty much followed the exact hole layout and tried to make the plot and surroundings accurate. I had limited data, though, so I took my best guess on elevation and the greens. I also took liberties in a few areas to make holes longer, or convert pars on some holes. On the other end of the spectrum is a course that doesn't follow the same routing, par, or yardage at all. The plot and environment feel very much like the original, though, and the design concepts also easily bring the original to mind. I won't say where it falls on the spectrum, but a course like The Heritage is a good example of one where the 17th and 18th holes are definitely recognizable, but a lot of the other holes are quite original. Throughout every hole of the round, though, you never feel like you are anywhere but at Harbour Town. As far as this course, I don't know anything about it, but the plot looks quite interesting, with a lot of stuff going on around the perimeter, at least according to the flyovers. I think it looks interesting enough to give it go. The only thing I ask for this contest is that people don't participate and then put together their local municipal course, for example. Like I said, this one looks interesting enough to make it worth the effort. For the layout, you are certainly free to spice things up and make it more difficult for video game golf. Tom Doak has been talking a lot lately about wishing someone would give him an opportunity to build a shorter 6500 or so yard course. Maybe you make yours stand out by putting together an interesting short course? You could always go back after the contest and make one that is more challenging by TGC measures. This is totally up to you, though. The last thing that I will say is that as long as your course is well-done, so good sculpting, good design, good plot and planting, you should have a fair shot with the judges. The resemblance to the original and the amount of RCR feel is only worth 10 points, so it won't likely make or break your entry. Good courses built on sound principles and in good environments/plots is the end goal, and the community is really the ones who win. |
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Post by theclv24 on Jun 7, 2018 20:27:02 GMT -5
I’d take you on, VctryLnSprts ! There’s this course up by Lake Erie called Catawba Island Club that I’d be interested in doing an inspired-by course of. The club opened in 1920 and, though I’m not sure about previous years, hosted a US Open Local Qualifier this year. It was designed by Arthur Hills, and it’s just a really fun design. Main thing that makes me want to go against you is I’d also want to do it in the Autumn/Harvest theme... www.cicclub.com/Default.aspx?p=DynamicModule&pageid=328368&ssid=223707&vnf=1Obviously up to you and Craig, but if you’re both on board I’d be happy to do it! Now I am on vacation for two weeks and need to submit my course into your contest, so I’d prefer if we started after July 15, and even more preferably in early August, but I’m pretty flexible any time after that. Let me know guys! No Arthur Hills courses! Ok, I'm kidding. I don't know exactly how I feel about him. He has some courses in Michigan on incredible plots that I've played, but the Golf Club Atlas crowd hates him and thinks he's a terrible architect. I would say I'm probably somewhere in between. I would say it's your call if you would like to do it, if either the plot is amazing like Gozzer Ranch, or if you think the hole designs are top notch. As far as the matchup goes, we could definitely do a fan vote or something similar for the winner if the head-to-head matchup appeals to you. The judges scores would still go in the overall all-time chart, but we could still measure each course against one another, either through the judges or have the community decide. For the timeline, I know it may not be fair to have different people working on different timelines, but the introduction of TGC 2019 complicates things, so I am pretty much letting people for now have pretty extensive design windows. So just keep that in mind for whenever you want to start. There will almost certainly need to be some kind of extension in August and possibly September to account for 2019 conversion. If you guys take this on, we can work things out in a private message to keep you both on the same page, and make sure you get a fair shot to do a 2019 release that you feel is complete. |
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Post by jacobkessler on Jun 7, 2018 20:38:45 GMT -5
For the course, it’s more about the plot and routing, rather than the holes themself. What I’m thinking about doing is triangulating the 18 holes as if I was doing a full, real RCR, but then designing my own holes on them, if that makes sense. Just some thoughts though- you’re the organizer so your decision is final.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 20:39:04 GMT -5
theclv24 - I'm actually confused by your response, I apologize. Are you saying I should either do an actual RCR of this course and NOT be in the contest, rather than do some quasi-attempt to be IN the contest? Also, I get what you're saying about not choosing just any local muni, but this course has a rich tradition, and although it's not going to have bold looks like what Ola and Matt are doing, it's a good golf course in its own right. That being said, I don't think it really has anything "identifiable" about it on the grand scale, like Harbour Town. If I made this course, people wouldn't play it and say "oh, this HAS to be Hershey Country Club!" One final thought is this: I actually just did a short course (The Chastener for Griff's National Treasure contest), and overall, people didn't really "get" the shortness of the course, because the video game mindset is "I want to hit driver on every hole!" So despite how good I thought my architecture was being just 6,800 yards, it didn't seem to translate into the TGCT mindset at all (it's not even being used on any of the tours, despite finishing top 7 in the contest). So I'm not sure the "short course" thing is the concept I really want to lead with, if that makes any sense. As I said in my post, it's possible this just isn't the thing for me after all.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 20:47:44 GMT -5
I’d take you on, VctryLnSprts ! There’s this course up by Lake Erie called Catawba Island Club that I’d be interested in doing an inspired-by course of. The club opened in 1920 and, though I’m not sure about previous years, hosted a US Open Local Qualifier this year. It was designed by Arthur Hills, and it’s just a really fun design. Main thing that makes me want to go against you is I’d also want to do it in the Autumn/Harvest theme... www.cicclub.com/Default.aspx?p=DynamicModule&pageid=328368&ssid=223707&vnf=1Obviously up to you and Craig, but if you’re both on board I’d be happy to do it! Now I am on vacation for two weeks and need to submit my course into your contest, so I’d prefer if we started after July 15, and even more preferably in early August, but I’m pretty flexible any time after that. Let me know guys! I'd be more than happy to take you on in a head-to-head side game, that would be fun. The problem I see is that our schedules might not align. I'll have the Survivor Contest judging/facilitating starting on July 5th and onward, and then of course the release of TGC2019, which isn't a big deal really, except I'm not sure how good the port-over will be. But I'm fine with taking you on if that works out, and if I actually do this contest based on whether I understand what I'm doing. |
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Post by theclv24 on Jun 7, 2018 21:01:31 GMT -5
For the course, it’s more about the plot and routing, rather than the holes themself. What I’m thinking about doing is triangulating the 18 holes as if I was doing a full, real RCR, but then designing my own holes on them, if that makes sense. Just some thoughts though- you’re the organizer so your decision is final. Yeah that makes sense, and is a pretty good strategy. I think that is kind of like the strategy that Ola was taking with Gozzer ranch. VctryLnSprts that is exactly what I am saying, lol. Here is an example that is not relevant: If we had no versions of Shinnecock of right now, and someone told me that were interested in doing either an RCR of Shinnecock, or one that was inspired by Shinnecock, I would say for the love of God please make at rue Shinnecock RCR. It's a joy to have that course available to play. The goal of the contest, on the other hand, is to encourage people who are either too time-strapped to do an actual RCR, or who want to do a course that doesn't have enough data to create what would be considered a true RCR, to take a stab at an "inspired by" course. If doing a true RCR of Shinnecock was not possible for that designer, I would take an inspired-by-Shinnecock over no Shinnecock anyday. So now that I've typed the word Shinnecock 8 times, my point is that if you are really considering doing an RCR of the course, I would highly encourage you to do it, because I love RCR's. I just would not enter that course into the contest. If a quasi-RCR sounds more your speed, though, by all means please come join the fun! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2018 0:28:24 GMT -5
Well, I messed with it for about an hour tonight and quit. I don’t think I’m the right guy for this. I need to stick to fantasy land. Haha!
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Post by joegolferg on Jun 8, 2018 6:24:26 GMT -5
I was very curious when I heard about Arthur Hills and his marmite reputation as a designer. Never heard of the bloke before so I went to have a search for some of his courses online.... One question. How did this fellow manage to get so many good plots to build on, only to ruin most of them with very poor looking golf courses? Looking overhead at his some of his designs, I couldn't see anything interesting going on at all. Strategy, what strategy? Wooden spoon.
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Post by mattf27 on Jun 8, 2018 7:02:42 GMT -5
It's funny, one of my favorite courses (Blue Mash) is an Arthur Hills design, and I enjoy it specifically because of the strategy presented on many of the holes. The only courses of his I've played are Maryland National and Blue Mash, both of which I enjoy greatly. There's definitely a few holes that are slightly awkward on each, but overall they're far from the wasted potential of other courses in the area.
But back to the contest, I definitely think there's lots of courses that are great in real life, but a real RCR would play terribly in this game. Like Ballyneal for instance, the fairways are HUGE, and there's not a ton of hazards outside of the undulation. The greens would be too harsh for in-game, and the rest of the course would be boring. So, I'm trying to keep the holes similar, while massaging them into holes that might play more interestingly for in-game use.
EDIT: So I looked him up and I've also played another course of his, Waverly Woods, which utterly blows. So, maybe I get why people dislike him after all  |
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Post by mrooola on Jun 8, 2018 7:06:19 GMT -5
For the course, it’s more about the plot and routing, rather than the holes themself. What I’m thinking about doing is triangulating the 18 holes as if I was doing a full, real RCR, but then designing my own holes on them, if that makes sense. Just some thoughts though- you’re the organizer so your decision is final. Yeah that makes sense, and is a pretty good strategy. I think that is kind of like the strategy that Ola was taking with Gozzer ranch. VctryLnSprts that is exactly what I am saying, lol. Here is an example that is not relevant: If we had no versions of Shinnecock of right now, and someone told me that were interested in doing either an RCR of Shinnecock, or one that was inspired by Shinnecock, I would say for the love of God please make at rue Shinnecock RCR. It's a joy to have that course available to play. The goal of the contest, on the other hand, is to encourage people who are either too time-strapped to do an actual RCR, or who want to do a course that doesn't have enough data to create what would be considered a true RCR, to take a stab at an "inspired by" course. If doing a true RCR of Shinnecock was not possible for that designer, I would take an inspired-by-Shinnecock over no Shinnecock anyday. So now that I've typed the word Shinnecock 8 times, my point is that if you are really considering doing an RCR of the course, I would highly encourage you to do it, because I love RCR's. I just would not enter that course into the contest. If a quasi-RCR sounds more your speed, though, by all means please come join the fun! That would actually be pretty much the opposite of what I'm doing. I'm not using the original routing at all, but keeping the hole designs as is. I will move some tees, experiment with elevation and remodel some bunkers, but all in all I will use the hole layout. Reason for this basically is that the plot won't fit in the designer and I've never done am rcr so my starting point ended up in the completely wrong place that does force my hand especially on the back 9 to make adjustments. 3 won't have that majestic look over the bay as the back 9 needs to fit somewhere  Also. A thing that some will probably frown upon is that I will completely remove 11 and 13 and design two holes on my own. I might put up a screenshot sometime this weekend to show what it will look like even if it's very rough at this stage. |
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Post by mrooola on Jun 9, 2018 16:42:39 GMT -5
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Post by welikeitroughnc on Jun 9, 2018 17:15:22 GMT -5
That looks promising ola liking the looks of the bunkers and hole flows thus far.
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Post by joegolferg on Jun 19, 2018 12:25:38 GMT -5
A couple of screenshots from my contest course.
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Post by theclv24 on Jun 19, 2018 12:47:03 GMT -5
Looks great Joe!
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Post by theclv24 on Jun 21, 2018 19:50:16 GMT -5
Bluejack National is off the table. Good luck to jivesinator! Some great courses in the works. |
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