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Post by Doyley on Jan 23, 2015 15:29:44 GMT -5
So to clarify the ruling is no chipping on the green... Therefore I assume flopping is still ok from 60 or so ft? What about from the fringe, fine to chip? Rule has been amended to include all shot types. Email will be sent out tomorrow with change (we ran into our limit for 24 hour period) |
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Post by Doyley on Jan 23, 2015 15:31:16 GMT -5
I have amended the rules to include all shot types - another round of emails out tomorrow to update. News story on site and thread on forum updated.
Chipping=chipping, flopping, pitching, punching (all shot types)
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Post by Pubknight on Jan 23, 2015 15:34:11 GMT -5
From my perspective, they're banning this but allowing people to use the sand wedge exploit! I've seen some pretty high ups use this exploit during a tour when playing their ghost balls, so what gives? Exploit is a pretty strong word in this sort of context. Care to expand on what it is you are accusing people of? |
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Post by daddyjules on Jan 23, 2015 15:36:00 GMT -5
From my perspective, they're banning this but allowing people to use the sand wedge exploit! I've seen some pretty high ups use this exploit during a tour when playing their ghost balls, so what gives? Exploit is a pretty strong word in this sort of context. Care to expand on what it is you are accusing people of? what is the sand wedge exploit? did i miss something? |
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Post by bentfivewood on Jan 23, 2015 15:38:56 GMT -5
May as well chime in.
I can see we have a line drawn on this issue between those if favor of fair play and those in favor of purism.
The fact of the matter is that in RL golf, the rules that have been in place for decades are meant to preserve fair play. Any time a change is made to the rules of golf, the purists come out of the woodwork and challenge it, not on the basis of taking something away from them but on the basis of maintaining a tradition. But the rule change goes through and maybe it reverts at a later time and maybe it doesn't but over time golf really remains a game about hitting a ball with clubs into a little hole.
I guarantee you, that if there was even a 5-10% increase in the amount of chipping that occurred on the greens in the PGA, there'd be some sort of rule change. And that's where my point comes to roost. The reason players don't chip more on greens in the PGA (and everywhere else) is because they are purists and favor fair play. The mechanics of chipping in TGC, where chipping can eliminate the need to read breaks without having an accuracy penalty, makes it far too easy to exploit it. Unfortunately, in video game golf, there are people who embrace purism because it helps them to redefine what is fair play and justify their use of those exploits.
Yes, there are others who use it far less and for far less dubious reasons but we cannot possibly police the issue if we say this kind of chipping is ok while this other kind is not. It would be a nightmare do so and the people making this machine run are already putting a lot of time into this.
Let's also not confuse getting the ball closer to the hole with having the chance to sink it. I've been on many greens where I'm so far away that my first putt runs 20 feet past the pin and I miss the second putt. It happens in RL golf and it's going to happen in TGC as well. It is not a right to make a 1 or 2 putt. I know that from experience.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2015 15:40:08 GMT -5
Exploit is a pretty strong word in this sort of context. Care to expand on what it is you are accusing people of? what is the sand wedge exploit? did i miss something? Dropping your cheese and ham roll when your playing partner is taking their shot  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2015 16:01:36 GMT -5
what is the sand wedge exploit? did i miss something? Dropping your cheese and ham roll when your playing partner is taking their shot Taste taught me it in one of his video's, it's simple, drop the loft down on the sandwich from the heavy stuff and you get about a buck 70. |
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Post by johneric on Jan 23, 2015 16:07:20 GMT -5
John if you're not even playing, why do you care so much? I'm not asking to be terse, I'm legitimately curious. I would love to give you an honest answer to your great question. Basically, one of the reasons I haven't made the time to play the tours but instead of chosen to play online with friends is because I personally am not a fan of seeing the crazy scores put up by the founders of the TGCtours while knowing that these are the same people that are making judgement calls on others. I think it just came down to the fact that the more time that has passed the more I've seen things that I personally don't feel are appropriate and I will leave it at that.. I've made a decision to not be active in the games that are taking place on the TGCtours that doesn't mean that I'm not interested in it's progression or lack thereof. Make no mistake about this, I love HBS and The Golf Club, I find it to be the best game I've ever played hands down so anything involved with the game I like being part of the discussion. I certainly don't expect anyone to agree with my opinions and I appreciate being able to share them. |
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Post by schatuk on Jan 23, 2015 16:08:23 GMT -5
So, delofting a lofted club gives you more distance? What is this sorcery?
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Post by johneric on Jan 23, 2015 16:09:13 GMT -5
From my perspective, they're banning this but allowing people to use the sand wedge exploit! I've seen some pretty high ups use this exploit during a tour when playing their ghost balls, so what gives? Exploit is a pretty strong word in this sort of context. Care to expand on what it is you are accusing people of? Everyone knows about this, there is no need for me to elaborate.. I don't want to let the cat out of the bag in an open forum for the fear it may cause others to use this to their advantage. |
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Post by SweetTeeBag on Jan 23, 2015 16:13:21 GMT -5
Exploit is a pretty strong word in this sort of context. Care to expand on what it is you are accusing people of? Everyone knows about this, there is no need for me to elaborate.. I don't want to let the cat out of the bag in an open forum for the fear it may cause others to use this to their advantage. I must be a dummy because I never knew about this. |
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Post by schatuk on Jan 23, 2015 16:14:45 GMT -5
Everyone knows about this, there is no need for me to elaborate.. I don't want to let the cat out of the bag in an open forum for the fear it may cause others to use this to their advantage. An open forum for a competition you have no interest in competing in? Okay then. Besides, look up a couple, you don't have to. |
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Post by acidflashback on Jan 23, 2015 16:17:14 GMT -5
PW out of rough can deloft to 170%. Get about 130-150 yards. Meh.
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philkid
Caddy
Posts: 61 
TGCT Name: Philip Pollock
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Post by philkid on Jan 23, 2015 16:19:33 GMT -5
I think the admins have done a great job so far and this has been a hot topic in other threads so they had to make a judgement call based on their tournament. I'm ok with this.
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Post by Brighttail on Jan 23, 2015 16:20:54 GMT -5
Greetings,
I'm going to start this post by saying I fully understand the intention of the Tour Administrators behind this rule change. There were a select number of people who were using "chipping on the green" as a way to avoid the break of the green on small to medium putts and thus gaining what is perceived to be an advantage of others who putt instead. While the intention of the rule is fine, the problem is as the saying goes, 'the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.' Allow me to explain.
1. The rules of golf allow any club to be used on any shot, anywhere.
2. There are a slew of videos you can check on YouTube that shows pros of all caliber, including Phil Mickelson in the Ryder Cup.
While I understand there will be those people who say, this is a game and due to the fact that chipping here is not like real life we have to regulate it. A fair point but it still takes practice to do it effectively. While putting is effected by the break of the green I do not think in this game putting is effected by wind speed as it is in RL. Chipping here is most definitely effected by wind speed AND slope. This type of shot is not as easy as some claim and it does take practice. Still I will admit that on a shot that is 13feet out using a lob wedge that will go 12 feet you can be pretty accurate, so there are some cases where, yes it will be easier.
All that being said, the vast majority of players do NOT use this tactic, so the rule that is suddenly being thrust upon is is a rather large reactionary response to a very small problem. It is obvious that people have complained about this to the directors, my question would be, exactly how many different people do this? I can't imagine the number being higher than 8 or 10. Would it not have been easier and better to check out their game/ghost, determine they were using something contrary to the spirit and have an individual chat with them? You do this for people who are suspected of hitting the ball straight all the time. If you were going to install a rule it would have been far easier and better to make a rule about general fairness. People who are determined to 'exploit' a weakness in the game shall be warned, then dealt with. Chipping 15 times a round would definitely fall under this category.
Please understand I come at this as a person who rarely uses the PW/LW on the green. The times where I use it are severe elevation changes or when I can't even get a proper read on the putt due to the fact there is no grid for the first 1/2 of the putt. This rule basically states that I have to be penalized and "GUESS" the slope of the green because my ball landed so far away instead of using a valid shot approved by the rules of golf!
Let me repeat that, cause it bears repeating. If i'm 80, 90, 100 feet away and I cannot see the slope of the green for the first 40,50,60 feet, this rule says that I MUST GUESS, approximate, throw caution to the wind and/or hit n hope that I end up somewhere in the vicinity where I think the slope is. All this because I'm not allowed to use a legal and valid shot under the rules of golf. Do the administrators believe that from this distance I am a lock to hole it out? To not allow a chip/flop/bump n run shot from a distance where a person cannot even see a grid is utterly ridiculous. I would even go far as say that it is completely unfair rule to force a player to putt without the aid of a grid in a tournament that uses and allows the grid.
In short, this new rule is a reactionary rule, that in my opinion goes too far in trying to correct a minor problem that few golfers utilize. Rules like this are not good rules. Playing devil's advocate for a moment, people say, "it is ettiquette" or "learn to putt", but person who chips can say the same thing, "it is a legal shot" and "Learn to chip". When you are talking about legal shots, what makes one way better, more accepted than the other?
At this point, I have to say I whole-heartedly disagree with this rule, especially when it comes to long putts where we don't have a grid to work with. I believe that the administrators would be better served not to make this rule and instead deal with the "offending people" on a case by case basis. If a person is viewed chipping consistently to avoid a break, then that break the "spirit of the rules", but to make a rule that punishes those of us who use this legal shot in specific cases, is simple wrong and I will not be a part of it.
I am withdrawing from next weeks (week 4) tournament at Coyote Creek. I do this in part of protest of a badly written rule and part that I have been practicing that course many times this week and I know I have had several holes where i'm over 70 feet from the whole with severe elevation changes. This is the perfect course to illustrate my point.
Good luck all, I hope the administrators will reconsider this rule as a whole and at the very least change it to reflect my valid concerns.
BT
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