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Post by nevadaballin on Sept 11, 2017 12:32:01 GMT -5
True Sim has low participation because IMO playing without the green grids is more unrealistic than anything else. People can tell me all they want about how they read the greens and I have no doubt they believe they can. The reality is you're making educated guesses based on a number of factors. But that's another story for another day. Yes, I realize I just invited a wave of backlash from the TST crowd, but I'm not criticizing the format, just trying to explain why thousands of people aren't flocking into the events. True Sim participation is low because most people like it being easy and don't like a challenge. That's the truth not many people would admit. Putting is an educated guess in real life btw. That's why pros miss 50% of the time from inside 8 feet. The whole point of this place is that you find your level. People who aren't capable of shooting 55 won't be playing against people who shoot 55. Not the case for me. I stopped playing TST because it takes FOREVER to play a round. this is also a truth that some try to donwplay - but it is a fact. I don't have that kind of free time. I don't want to spend 90 minutes playing one single round when i only have 90 minutes of time available on that day. To say people don't play TST because they don't like the challenge isn't always true. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 13:41:49 GMT -5
It's a fact huh? Posts like this turn people off from TST. Total BS.
I play guys who use aids turn base and play just as fast as they do and sometimes even beat them. Probably takes under 50 to 60 minutes if not less. I play ghosts all the time turn base and that takes even less time. If I play by myself it probably takes less than 40 minutes.
If it takes you 90 minutes to play 18 holes of TST you obviously are spending too much time trying to read the greens or you are playing with your shaft and balls to much.
Most people do not play it because they read posts like yours or they do try it and shoot a high score and say it's not fair and never actually give it a chance.
I have played TST exclusively for over 2 years and love the grind of it. Nothing is given and your score is earned.
Being the politically correct pussified world we live in I will say I do not have anything against people who play with aids. I just don't like when people mis represent playing without.
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Post by mcbogga on Sept 11, 2017 14:04:16 GMT -5
True Sim participation is low because most people like it being easy and don't like a challenge. That's the truth not many people would admit. Putting is an educated guess in real life btw. That's why pros miss 50% of the time from inside 8 feet. The whole point of this place is that you find your level. People who aren't capable of shooting 55 won't be playing against people who shoot 55. Not the case for me. I stopped playing TST because it takes FOREVER to play a round. this is also a truth that some try to donwplay - but it is a fact. I don't have that kind of free time. I don't want to spend 90 minutes playing one single round when i only have 90 minutes of time available on that day. To say people don't play TST because they don't like the challenge isn't always true. Can be many reasons for not liking TST, all valid. But rounds also do not need to take that long. There is just a long learning curve to the putting. A round doesn't need to take much longer than one with grids. Personally I find that I overread most of the time when taking more time. My experience, may differ for others. HB got stuck in the middle a bit with TGC2. All due to their one size fits all vision. If they would have delivered a hard core sim experience together with a TGC1-like mode then they would have pleased more people. |
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Post by ErixonStone on Sept 11, 2017 14:06:30 GMT -5
I tried it with no grid. I didn't find it fun. It seemed possible if you had good graphics, which I don't. I ended up watching ghost balls to help me confirm breaks and much of the time, the ball went the opposite way I thought it would.
I encourage everyone to try it, but it wasn't for me.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 14:25:33 GMT -5
Not the case for me. I stopped playing TST because it takes FOREVER to play a round. this is also a truth that some try to donwplay - but it is a fact. I don't have that kind of free time. I don't want to spend 90 minutes playing one single round when i only have 90 minutes of time available on that day. To say people don't play TST because they don't like the challenge isn't always true. Can be many reasons for not liking TST, all valid. But rounds also do not need to take that long. There is just a long learning curve to the putting. A round doesn't need to take much longer than one with grids. Personally I find that I overread most of the time when taking more time. My experience, may differ for others. HB got stuck in the middle a bit with TGC2. All due to their one size fits all vision. If they would have delivered a hard core sim experience together with a TGC1-like mode then they would have pleased more people. I can walk 9 holes in less than 90 minutes. |
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Post by lessangster on Sept 11, 2017 16:34:53 GMT -5
It takes me around about 40 minutes to play a round on TST I'm not one of the best but I can put good scores in when I'm seeing the lines. I look from behind the club then from behind the hole and then go for it.
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Post by nevadaballin on Sept 11, 2017 17:58:54 GMT -5
Not the case for me. I stopped playing TST because it takes FOREVER to play a round. this is also a truth that some try to donwplay - but it is a fact. I don't have that kind of free time. I don't want to spend 90 minutes playing one single round when i only have 90 minutes of time available on that day. To say people don't play TST because they don't like the challenge isn't always true. Can be many reasons for not liking TST, all valid. But rounds also do not need to take that long. There is just a long learning curve to the putting. A round doesn't need to take much longer than one with grids. Personally I find that I overread most of the time when taking more time. My experience, may differ for others. HB got stuck in the middle a bit with TGC2. All due to their one size fits all vision. If they would have delivered a hard core sim experience together with a TGC1-like mode then they would have pleased more people. Obviously my opinion on it but.... If you want to be successful playing TST, then you need to take the time to read each putt. All 360 degrees. There's no fast track around it. Whether the read is correct or not isn't relevant. You need to take the time to effort a good read. If you don't, then it will just frustrate a player to no end. I can't see anyone playing a round of TST - and shoot a competitive score - within the same amount of time it takes to play a regular round. There's just more steps involved, especially on the green. And forget about watching someone TST stream - all of the frantic camera changes people do when eyeing up a putt is enough to give a rock a seizure  Up, down, circle around, zoom in, zoom back, behind the ball, behind the pin, behind the ball again, zoom to the cup, reset to putt view, circle around one more time, low behind the ball one more time, reset to putt view again, check behind the pin again, view from the low side, view from the high side, reset to putt view again, putt. It's a bit much |
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Post by nevadaballin on Sept 11, 2017 18:10:18 GMT -5
I do need to add, TST is fun. Make no mistake. It just takes me (personally) a long time to play because I do take that time to read putts.
Agree with Patrick that everyone should at least try it. Everyone is different and they may find it might be right up their alley.
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Post by edi_vedder on Sept 12, 2017 2:07:49 GMT -5
I do need to add, TST is fun. Make no mistake. It just takes me (personally) a long time to play because I do take that time to read putts. +1 I really liked the TST-challenge, but overall it was too time consuming for me personally. |
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Post by frank70 on Sept 12, 2017 3:08:03 GMT -5
The swing simply isn't difficult enough - especially distance control.
A wrong tempo (which is not granular enough - should influence the length of a shot a little more. Just 2 or 3 yards - pull (fast tempo) a little longer. Push (slow tempo) a little shorter.
On top of that it is to easy to hit a 100% shot. If there were an overswing area (end of animation wouldn't be 100% shot power but 110%) it would be a challenge to hit a shot with exact 100% power. Which would lead - again - to a little bit bigger variance in shot distance.
Make putting it straight harder. It's always impossible to really pull or push a putt. That would lead to some 5 footers to be missed - which happens in real life as well from time to time.
10 footers would quickly become 20 footers. And the scores would tumble quite a bit, cause putting is representes quite good in difficulty. 15-20 footers aren't that easy to make on greens with some ondulations.
Will HB do it? No, they won't. Which i don't quite understand. They don't even have to call it "difficulty". Call it "PGA clubs" or whatever. This change would bring is closer to really playing this courses. Pin hunting wouldn't always be the right choice.
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Post by mcbogga on Sept 12, 2017 5:50:55 GMT -5
Very good points. It's all about distance to pin and distance control. Add a more intricate lie system for the short game and it could be near perfect.
But this would need to be a separate mode, since many people who want to birdie pretty much every hole would be furious and stop playing.
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Post by ErixonStone on Sept 12, 2017 6:23:21 GMT -5
The problem with that solution is the communication of information. How do you represent 100% if the max is 105%? Wouldn't you just aim for 105% anyway and go for max distance?
How do you give feedback for a swing that was 99% or 101% tempo? 98% or 102%? Where do we draw these lines?
And putting should be fairly straight. I push/pull putts in this game. Rarely, but I'm among a group that probably attempts 50 putts per day. How hard could HB make this game without having casual players throw it in the trash bin after 1 round.
It's hard to introduce granularity without introducing the feeling of randomness.
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Post by lessangster on Sept 12, 2017 6:44:59 GMT -5
It's a game it's not mean to be as hard as real golf, if it was we might as well go play real golf. In my case I'm getting on a bit and no where near as fit as I was, had a few problems with arthritis in the legs and lower back but this game as it is at the minute gives me the chance to let me play like I used to in my twenties. I see no enjoyment in hacking it round a course shooting 80's but I also don't want to see rounds in the mid 50's so it's a double edged sword. Playing TST style is a good compromise if we could only get a good view of the slopes on the greens for our approach shots.
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Post by frank70 on Sept 12, 2017 7:48:38 GMT -5
The problem with that solution is the communication of information. How do you represent 100% if the max is 105%? Wouldn't you just aim for 105% anyway and go for max distance? How do you give feedback for a swing that was 99% or 101% tempo? 98% or 102%? Where do we draw these lines? And putting should be fairly straight. I push/pull putts in this game. Rarely, but I'm among a group that probably attempts 50 putts per day. How hard could HB make this game without having casual players throw it in the trash bin after 1 round. It's hard to introduce granularity without introducing the feeling of randomness. You don't have feedback for your shotpower right now either. If you are "underswinging" you aren't informed by the game. Perfect Golf has a real time swing as well and at the moment the animation stops the overswing zone begins. The longer you hesitate before initiating the downswing the more power is put to the shot (kind of represents loading up the swing). And that is important: In the overswing area your shot is more prone to mishits. That means a little draw in the cone with 105% power would veer more left than a shot hit with 100% power (risk/reward). For TGC2 that means that in order to hit the ball with exactly 100% you have to nail the transition point perfectly. That would be a challenge considering tempo. Putting: Have you ever missed an absolute straight 8-10 footer in the game (without phantom break)? I haven't. It's quite easy to miss those in real life when pulling or pushing it a little bit. Not in the game. Those enhanced difficulty does not have to be the standard. It could be a sim mode on top of the current "club options". Nobody would have to play this way. But it would be so much more realistic. I am so tired of these -55s winning tournaments. To be honest: We aren't playing a golf sim. What we do in TGC2 has not that much to do with golf. Course management isn't that important because you can get up and down from everywhere. So it's practically pin hunting on every hole. If distance control would be harder the swing weren't that repeatable. You would have good days and bad days. In the current state a -7 is considered a "bad day" by many. Make it more difficult/realistic and on some days E would be a good score .... what it is in real golf. |
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Post by troubleclef721 on Sept 21, 2017 23:28:55 GMT -5
My suggestion was simply mandating promotion to TST for average scores (over maybe 10 rounds) below a certain threshold. Make the TST the PGA/Euro Tour for the true elites. Make it a badge of honor to be promoted to play there.
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Up, down, circle around, zoom in, zoom back, behind the ball, behind the pin, behind the ball again, zoom to the cup, reset to putt view, circle around one more time, low behind the ball one more time, reset to putt view again, check behind the pin again, view from the low side, view from the high side, reset to putt view again, putt. 
