andrewh
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 112
TGCT Name: Andrew Hollibaugh
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Post by andrewh on Feb 14, 2016 11:16:39 GMT -5
I did notice on a few putts that didn't seem to show any break did indeed seem to break some. I wasn't sure if I was pushing them a bit with the mouse or not, but yeah I think you may be right.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 15:13:06 GMT -5
I can confirm that there are breaks around the holes that you can't see. This course is tricked up to the 9s.
I will be very happy when this week is over and I can move onto Drayton.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 16:28:25 GMT -5
I can confirm that there are breaks around the holes that you can't see. This course is tricked up to the 9s. I will be very happy when this week is over and I can move onto Drayton. Very true Wag and even those that you could see, some of the breaks from just 5 feet out were crazy. Just finished my tournament and I'm glad it's over! Not a bad course by any means but certainly challenging. Probably isn't a bad thing though given the previous two tourneys. Good to mix it up now and again.
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Post by mrooola on Feb 14, 2016 16:36:50 GMT -5
andrewh this is surely a tough course for a beginner so I wish you good luck. When it comes to putts showing no break but they do. Well this is fairly common on flattish greens. It is NOT some trickery from the designer. I don't know exactly how it works, so anyone who does should feel free to fill in any blanks or correct me if I'm wrong, but what the grids do are to show the average slope within that grid. So if you were to remove just one square on that grid it would not show any movements with the beads even if there is, as long as each edge are level to each other. Also. Depending on where your ball is, the grid gets drawn differently. A different angle of approach so to speak. This is to give the player a level grid from where your golfer is. This might slightly alter how grids are shown. This is why you sometimes can have a putt that looks flat on the grid and if you miss the putt you will have movement shown on the grid coming back from the area that just recently looked very flat. Did this make sense? This is also the reason why designers often look at their greens from different angles in the designer, however in my case that would be more about avoiding yellow slopes near the pin.
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Post by mrooola on Feb 14, 2016 17:05:03 GMT -5
Ohh and by the way. Whenever I get a flat looking putt I use the putting camera to get low to the ground to try and visually see if I can notice any slope. It helps to look from behind the hole towards the golfer.
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Post by Hootbleet on Feb 14, 2016 17:13:55 GMT -5
IRL, the 1st and most important thing I look at when putting is the area within a few inches of the hole. This is where the final break if any will occur. The trouble with the game is that you don't get to see the beads in such close proximity to the hole. Thus a subtle but effective break will not be seen, which I think is what people are seeing here
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 17:46:10 GMT -5
andrewh this is surely a tough course for a beginner so I wish you good luck. When it comes to putts showing no break but they do. Well this is fairly common on flattish greens. It is NOT some trickery from the designer. I don't know exactly how it works, so anyone who does should feel free to fill in any blanks or correct me if I'm wrong, but what the grids do are to show the average slope within that grid. So if you were to remove just one square on that grid it would not show any movements with the beads even if there is, as long as each edge are level to each other. Also. Depending on where your ball is, the grid gets drawn differently. A different angle of approach so to speak. This is to give the player a level grid from where your golfer is. This might slightly alter how grids are shown. This is why you sometimes can have a putt that looks flat on the grid and if you miss the putt you will have movement shown on the grid coming back from the area that just recently looked very flat. Did this make sense? This is also the reason why designers often look at their greens from different angles in the designer, however in my case that would be more about avoiding yellow slopes near the pin. I think you're spot on with this. But ultimately it comes down to how the designer slopes his greens. I may be crappy at playing these greens but I know the tricks. In fact, I use them myself when I create my own courses, so I'm as guilty as anybody else. It all comes back to how easy the swing mechanic is and as a result, the only way to make these courses challenging is the trick up the greens or make drives off the teen and/or approaches extremely tricky. I just played a course that used all the tools. The fairways ran perpendicular to the tee so that you ultimately only had a few yards to land your tee shot. The approach shots were extremely long. The greens weren't too fast or firm but the slopes were all over the place and depending on how you viewed your putt (even from just 5 feet out) you saw different breaks. I had a number of putts that looked straight, but hooked and then coming back the other way, you could see the break that the original view didn't show. In spite of all that, and 2 of my ghosts shooting 8 and 10 over, I managed par for the course. I was actually quite pleased considering how tough it was. I seem to have reached a point now where I'm improving a little bit each day. I can see light at the end of the tunnel. But that's another subject for another time. My point, however, is that you have these problems with the greens because of the way the designers make them. a perfectly flat green doesn't hook when you putt unless you actually pull the shot.
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Post by mrooola on Feb 14, 2016 18:37:21 GMT -5
I can obviously only talk on my own behalf and I promise you that I for one never would even think about using such a "trick", but I'm not even sure how you could given the way the game is coded. There is simply no way for a designer to create their greens in such manner that there would be a slope but it won't show taking account for the many possibilities of how the green grid is created and displayed. The variables are endless. I see how you could create this situation from 1 or perhaps 2 specific locations on the green, but not the entire green. It seems far fetched to say the least. Until proven (and I have never seen or heard about anyone who has) I call BS on this statement.
There is no such thing as a 100% flat green irl and you would not get me caught having one. When creating a "flat" green it really should be a green with minimal slope. Most courses try and be flattish around the hole. Thus creating this occurance. The flatter and slower thw green is the more common it gets. It's nothing new and no respected designer would go to such lengths (I believe) to create these circumstances IF and this is a big IF it's even possible. I doubt it. If you have figured a way to do it, well... my best advice would be to don't use it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 19:18:11 GMT -5
I can obviously only talk on my own behalf and I promise you that I for one never would even think about using such a "trick", but I'm not even sure how you could given the way the game is coded. There is simply no way for a designer to create their greens in such manner that there would be a slope but it won't show taking account for the many possibilities of how the green grid is created and displayed. The variables are endless. I see how you could create this situation from 1 or perhaps 2 specific locations on the green, but not the entire green. It seems far fetched to say the least. Until proven (and I have never seen or heard about anyone who has) I call BS on this statement. There is no such thing as a 100% flat green irl and you would not get me caught having one. When creating a "flat" green it really should be a green with minimal slope. Most courses try and be flattish around the hole. Thus creating this occurance. The flatter and slower thw green is the more common it gets. It's nothing new and no respected designer would go to such lengths (I believe) to create these circumstances IF and this is a big IF it's even possible. I doubt it. If you have figured a way to do it, well... my best advice would be to don't use it. Well, then maybe what I'm seeing is an optical illusion. All I know is I've taken shots that appeared to have no break whatsoever and then at the last second just before the ball gets to the hole, the ball breaks, usually left but sometimes right. If you have a reasonable explanation as to how that can happen, I'm all ears. As far as how to create this. it's not hard. Take your raise tool and zoom in to the pin. Make a 1 inch elevation (up or down) around the four sides of the pin. You won't see this on the grid as long as the resolution you use (size of brush) is small enough. Then, regardless of which direction you come from, just before the ball reaches the hole, it will break. The way you stop this is by jamming the putt, which you can do on uphill or level putts. On downhill putts, you risk going way past the hole. The next time this happens to me, I'll video it and post it here. It's very common. Not every break shows up on the grid.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 19:24:14 GMT -5
I would point out that reading a putt break can sometimes involve more than the beads and grid right in front of you. The adjacent grids can give clues and so can a visual overlook of the green itself. Sometimes one can see the subtle breaks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 19:26:35 GMT -5
I would point out that reading a putt break can sometimes involve more than the beads and grid right in front of you. The adjacent grids can give clues and so can a visual overlook of the green itself. Sometimes one can see the subtle breaks. Let me add that I'm not playing this game at the best resolution because my video card sucks. I'll be getting a new one soon. So it's also quite possible that breaks that I don't see, others do see. This could also partially explain my pathetic putting with so many putts missing by inches even though I thought I had them lined up perfectly. I think with my new card, my game will see some significant improvement.
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Post by pablo on Feb 15, 2016 1:38:51 GMT -5
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Coops
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Posts: 28
TGCT Name: Lee Cooper
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Post by Coops on Feb 15, 2016 5:14:38 GMT -5
I did notice on a few putts that didn't seem to show any break did indeed seem to break some. I wasn't sure if I was pushing them a bit with the mouse or not, but yeah I think you may be right. This happens on quite a few courses and holes. No break showing but indeed they break a lot. I guess this is a designer fault maybe?
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andrewh
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 112
TGCT Name: Andrew Hollibaugh
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Post by andrewh on Feb 15, 2016 5:45:54 GMT -5
Good tips about changing the view to read the surface of the green. I forgot you could do that and have yet to try it at all . Nah, not really a fault I don't think, but maybe a design decision. You can only make the grid so fine and eventually have to decide where the cut off should be. To fine tune your putting read, you just need to take a closer look around the hole. It could be that the overall average read over the grid is displayed right, but the small area where your putt travels could have some undulation one way or another that the grid averages out. I will try that out next round.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2016 8:55:13 GMT -5
Well, based on early returns in E Class (20 posted so far) things are not looking good for me if I decide to tackle this one. Mid point appears to be 4 under which would be close to my best score for this course. Looks like I've got my work cut out for me. Don't know why, but this course gives me fits. On an average day, par is about the best I can do. Not really looking forward to getting my first strike on the way down to Z Class.
Maybe there was a reason I didn't register for this one.
** EDIT ** Never mind. I was looking at the PGA scores. E Class has very few entered so far so I'll keep an eye on it. But so far, scores are very bad. Gives me hope. LOL.
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