jdforthy
Caddy
Posts: 35
TGCT Name: Joshua Forseth
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Post by jdforthy on Jul 6, 2015 22:46:20 GMT -5
That was the most fun I've ever had playing a tournament on TGCT. This course has split the community straight down the middle and I just absolutely love it. Thanks Phil for making this great course. I have never fist pumped and swore so much whilst playing four rounds of video golf! I played some great shots, some poor shots, got some good breaks, got some bad breaks and generally putted well even though I left a few out there that I should have made. I wish that we could play courses like this every week. I started playing RGT because I was tired of having to shoot -60 to compete. Lately the scores have been going silly there which is making me lose a little interest in it, so to play an event where all the help is on and 90% of the field are shooting less than -10 is just fantastic. The closer we can get to real life scoring is what I've always wanted in a golf game. I was grinding over every shot, bogies were in inevitable(I made ten this week) But the joy of clawing the shots back was something completely new to me playing this game, I actually felt nervous over nearly every shot, how it should be. I shot 66,66,66,67 for a -15 total. I know it's not going to be a winning score, probably a top 5 though. But I am pretty happy with it despite shooting -7 in a practice round just before playing this tournament. I don't like you. But seriously, great scores. I wasn't a big fan of the course because I felt as though my great shots were not rewarded as though they should have been. I don't think all GOOD shots should be rewarded, but shots where you can land it exactly where you need to sometimes still didn't pan out, and that made it tough. My scores were astromically high this week, and I do blame most of that on my putter, and not the course. All in all, I think the designer has immense talent and will definitely look for some more of his courses, but this one has a few things that I wish were changed. (You yourself mentioned the trees on 14, i believe.) Either way, was fun to test myself on it, I just failed miserably with the putter
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Post by mcbogga on Jul 6, 2015 23:13:44 GMT -5
-53 isn't real golf either. I like when the elite players are shooting in the high 60s. Your rounds look completely reasonable to me, for a change. Needing multiple rounds in the 50s to contend is lame IMO. Edit: FWIW, I played a practice round last night and shot +4 in 12-15 MPH winds. The course is a brute but I thoroughly enjoyed it and think I can knock several strokes off that score when it counts. But this isn't real golf. We shoot -50 because we can hit perfect shots almost every time, not because the courses are too easy. If all of the courses start turning into Harbour Pointe, this game loses its feel of a real golf game. I've played hundreds of real courses in my life - quite a few tourney venues, and not a single one of them have played even close to the way this one played. If you want the game to play harder, play in the RGT, or get on the HB forums and try to convince them to add some type of variance in error on a given shot so we don't hit it perfect every time. The thing is, I'm a fan of tougher courses. Elmview was great, I actually loved Falcon Bay, and my only published course has gotten complaints of being too tough. But this just wasn't golf. And I'm not complaining because I did terribly, I shot -8. Interresting point of view - and very valid. I agree that the best would be to be able to see more realistic scoring on realistic courses and no aids play gets closer to that, but still does not substitute. The difference is that I would take realistic scoring on unrelistic courses that still retain the feel of golf over -50 on a 100% realistic course every time. This is where the video-game aspect comes in. The course design needs to make up for the straightness of the swing mechanics. Harbour Pointe is a polarizing course for sure with many approaches where anything else than a perfect shot coupled with some luck will feed away to 40+ feet. In doing so it actually equalizes the overpowered putting and accuracy. I think that in "feel" its not that far off a 7000yds+ par 70 experience. A grind where its all about recovery and lag putting. The way it acomplishes this is not realistic in terms of hole design, slopes, pin placements, run out etc. but the feel is there. It is borderline too though, but that is it's greatness.
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Post by blackaces13 on Jul 7, 2015 3:34:15 GMT -5
This course just handed me my ass but I really like it. I think it's awesome that most players have a wide range of possible scores, so you feel like if you manage to put together a score, you will pick up tons of ground over the field. When the leaders are shooting 13 under every round it is more or less impossible to recover from a less than stellar round. There just aren't enough shots left on the course to gain on the leaders.
On this course a 6 or 7 under can move you from the middle of the pack to contention. This makes a great round exciting while you're shooting it and watching your name rocket up the leaderboard.
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Post by blueorfe on Jul 7, 2015 5:17:08 GMT -5
I don't like you. But seriously, great scores. I wasn't a big fan of the course because I felt as though my great shots were not rewarded as though they should have been. I don't think all GOOD shots should be rewarded, but shots where you can land it exactly where you need to sometimes still didn't pan out, and that made it tough. My scores were astromically high this week, and I do blame most of that on my putter, and not the course. All in all, I think the designer has immense talent and will definitely look for some more of his courses, but this one has a few things that I wish were changed. (You yourself mentioned the trees on 14, i believe.) Either way, was fun to test myself on it, I just failed miserably with the putter Yeah, 14 is probably too difficult a hole. If you have wind behind, even 2 mph you can carry the bunkers from the tee, leaving anything from 180-160 yards to the pin. The trees then don't come into play if you loft it up, but it's still pretty much impossible to hold it anywhere near the pin without some luck. The putt from 30 feet beyond the cup is a pretty easy one to lay dead or an outside chance of birdie as there isn't much break to it. The only other hole that I think is a little too difficult is 1. The fact that it's the first hole is my main issue with it. To get within 40 feet isn't easy and making bogey on the first can be unsettling (I bogeyed it twice). The hole is great but I'd like to see the pin a couple of yards further on the green so there was a chance to attack it with the right wind conditions. I was too greedy on it, trying for the perfect shot. Despite these two holes this is one of my favourite courses in the game. You should definitely check out Phil's other courses, you won't be disappointed at all. They are fantastic and none of them are as difficult as this one. Here are a few shots from this week some good luck and some bad luck... when the video is uploaded that is.
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Post by disturbed932 on Jul 7, 2015 6:45:11 GMT -5
67-71-69-66. -7 Total. Couldn't get much going this week. Silly bogies by being aggressive on the first hole trying to hold draws against fade winds. Got used to it by the last round, but not my favorite course. Heavy winds throughout.
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Post by bentfivewood on Jul 7, 2015 6:52:13 GMT -5
79-73-80-78
That ought to make my round scores graph look a lot more interesting.
I won't complain about the course selection because it was the same for everyone. I will say that any course for which the game plan becomes hitting the ball into the rough closest to the pin and trying for a chip in is just set up a shade poorly. The combination of pin placements and green speed/ firmness made it that way. Loved the course layout otherwise.
I'll put this poor performance down to the growing pains I am having with my new controller. Too many shanked putts and tee shots to count.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 7:29:38 GMT -5
It does beg the question: what do people want? Realistic courses with unrealistic video game scores? Or unrealistic video game courses with realistic scores?
Obviously realistic courses with realistic scores would be best but I think it goes to show the gameplay is too easy (hit straight drives/easy flop shots) to have that. Me personally? I'd prefer realistic courses with the hope that one day the gameplay will be harder as a par shouldn't feel like a bogey and game over. This course is great at getting that realistic score feel vibe though.
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Post by bentfivewood on Jul 7, 2015 8:58:26 GMT -5
It does beg the question: what do people want? Realistic courses with unrealistic video game scores? Or unrealistic video game courses with realistic scores? Obviously realistic courses with realistic scores would be best but I think it goes to show the gameplay is too easy (hit straight drives/easy flop shots) to have that. Me personally? I'd prefer realistic courses with the hope that one day the gameplay will be harder as a par shouldn't feel like a bogey and game over. This course is great at getting that realistic score feel vibe though. I'm with you for the most part. There are so many factors to the realism debate that it would not be appropriate for this forum. Needless to say this game is pretty easy compared to RL golf.
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Post by justamush on Jul 7, 2015 10:13:15 GMT -5
I haven't even played a practice round yet, but seeing these high scores has me a little bit scared........
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Post by bentfivewood on Jul 7, 2015 11:16:52 GMT -5
I haven't even played a practice round yet, but seeing these high scores has me a little bit scared........ I actually played all 4 rds because I had no clue if I would make the cut or not at +12. It's hard. Be prepared.
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Post by blackaces13 on Jul 7, 2015 11:36:24 GMT -5
It does beg the question: what do people want? Realistic courses with unrealistic video game scores? Or unrealistic video game courses with realistic scores? . For me the answer is unrealistic courses with realistic scores. The better players of this game have an unrealistic amount of control over where their ball is going. It just seems logical that the courses be designed with this in mind. If people were able to control their landing spots as precisely in real life as they do in this game, then real world golf courses wouldn't look like they do now either.
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Post by mcbogga on Jul 7, 2015 12:22:25 GMT -5
Unrealistic courses that plays well and creates that "golf feeling" - not just unrealistic.
Sitting at even par after three rounds after being +4 five holes into the first round. Shocking start and then a slow grind to get back. Am making enough birdies but also too many bogeys... Lucked out with low winds, that helped for sure so far.
The course is amazing though. Just gets better every play through as I learn more and more of its quirks. Can tell a ton of testing and tweaking went into the design of those approach shots and greens.
This is one of the few tournaments so far where the game actually feels like golf. Perfect shots needed for the tap in birdies - Good shots to the right spot yields par unless the putt drops. Miss and it's a struggle for par. Almost no automatic recoveries around the greens - a complete short game needed. A compact leaderboard with plenty of movement. Best tournament to date. This is what every week on the top tours should be like.
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Post by theduke21 on Jul 7, 2015 12:33:55 GMT -5
Here's my thing with the unrealistic courses thing: I think the unrealistic courses could be a bit more realistic and still cause tough scores in ways that don't make a lot of people mad. 1. Tough fairways. Make landing spots small and driver risky. We hit drives really straight on this game. Making fairways smilers is fine and it's not too unrealistic. 2. Instead of making greens max firmness and allowing spots to land, make it medium firmness and have pin seeking be very dangerous.. Meaning, have pins in very tough spots to get it close, and penalize the golfer if they just miss this spot. Also, allow a spot not at the pin that's fairly flat and allows them a 30+ foot putt that should be a par. That creates realism there. Since the pin is so tough, many people will barely miss their spot and penalized, but since the firmness is medium, it does allow someone that's dead on their game to hit the perfect shot and be rewarded. The way to make these pins is tucked behind bunkers/water/sloped rough and to have them on small plateaus or have huge slopes running away on a couple sides of the hole. I just think the problem we're having is the high firmness greens is what makes the courses feel unrealistic. I think it's fairly possible to have a real tough course have just medium firmness. I tried to create this with my course Ridenour. It's definitely not as tough as this course, but the best score I think is -8 on it with around 100 plays. I still think I could have made it harder, and frankly, it's not as nice of a layout as Harbour Pointe. I think Canuck has done this better lately as well where he creates tougher pins that make it hard to make birdie. But his courses are typically pretty short so they aren't too difficult. That's just my look on it. Designers need to do everything they can to make courses hard with medium firmness. I think we all agree that on a non-links course, medium firmness is the most fun and most realistic.
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Post by mcbogga on Jul 7, 2015 12:43:45 GMT -5
I agree 100% to all this! Medium soft/fast with tucked pins is the best set up outside of links where firm can work. Medium but fast greens are also very versatile from design point of view - the designer can pretty much decide the run out depending on front to back or back to front slope....
Most of the courses on tour are far too conservative with the pin placements. One grid square is 1yard - so having a pin 3 squares from the edge of the green or a tier is perfectly fine for tour set ups. Now have that edge run off into a bunker, a deep run off area or even water and we need to think a bit as players...
But still think Harbour pointe is doing an amazing job with the Firm greens.
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Post by theduke21 on Jul 7, 2015 12:48:47 GMT -5
I agree 100% to all this! Medium soft/fast with tucked pins is the best set up outside of links where firm can work. Medium but fast greens are also very versatile from design point of view - the designer can pretty much decide the run out depending on front to back or back to front slope.... Most of the courses on tour are far too conservative with the pin placements. One grid square is 1yard - so having a pin 3 squares from the edge of the green or a tier is perfectly fine for tour set ups. Now have that edge run off into a bunker, a deep run off area or even water and we need to think a bit as players... But still think Harbour pointe is doing an amazing job with the Firm greens. Yep agree completely with that. I've seen some pins criticized because they may run off into a bunker or water if you go 7 feet by or so that they'll run off. I think that's fine. If you're putting from behind it, that should tell you not to knock your putt by the hole. I even though #15 at Conservatory Club was fine. #4 was a bit too much though, you couldn't miss that putt or you were running off no matter what. lol
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