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Post by GW_Hope on Jan 27, 2019 11:51:00 GMT -5
I’m confident in my understanding, but I appreciate your opinion. So at least quantify that you think that some take it to the extreme and are trying to game the system and push it to the very edge and some simply pick up the controller and can put up pretty much get the same results naturally.
Son't lump every short swing you may see on a stream or video as all the same. If it was as easy as you imply, then it wouldn't be an issue as everyone on PS4 could just do it.
Not to pick any side but some people that try it will get an API DQ since they are inheriy accurate to begin with. That is my entire issue with HB. Some can be not so great at swinging and gain a huge benefit while others who are more accurate are stuck using a full line that is very sensitive to any minor dispersion. There is no middle ground. I can’t even go past half loft club or I will be 10 yards off target. We see the steams and watch what the short swing gets away with. We have tested it ourselves. We do know.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 11:55:02 GMT -5
I finished every event last year but one. I have finished all but one here on PGA and finished 7 TST tournaments this year. Never had an API pull (not one!), but thanks for dragging my name around with the Sammy Sosa comment.
You imply that it still is not okay despite never being pulled once in 60 or so tournaments since API has been used to swing the way I do? So I should have to satisfy the peanut gallery on TOP of passing API all because the game has changed and not myself (I have more full lines now than when TGC2019 came out, by the way, so there has been some altering on my part).
Peanut gallery: Please list all the things that would satisfy you on top of passing TGCT's API checks.
-Retina scans? -Video of my rounds including when I get up to take a piss, etc? -Full API documentation charts for every shot? -A TGCT representative standing over my shoulder every time I play TGCT rounds?
Perhaps you can use your energies instead to keep petitioning HB and/or Playstation to work on why the short swing is pretty much (not 100%) exclusive to DS4 users and why there seems to be a difference in data from some DS4 users vs. almost none from other types of controller users. How's that for better use of your pent up frustration on this issue instead of the side-long glances and inferring people who have never failed API checks are cheating/cheesing the system with a long standing swing since long before this game.
Here’s my list: 1. Acknowledgment that the flick swing produces an accuracy advantage over a technique that produces a full line. That’s it. Nobody is asking for video evidence, scores pulled, representatives standing over shoulders, etc. But this ostrich-head-in-the-sand routine that short swings aren’t more accurate is laughable. Don’t piss on my head and tell me it’s raining. It's an advantage so far as one knows how to utilize it effectively. You choose to use the full line. You are on PS4 and could short swing if you wanted to, but instead you imply that others should change or else they will never be viewed the same as a method that inherently has a disadvantage. See how I can flip that on its head against you just like you are doing to me/others?
Again, HB created this with their data interpretation changes in this version, lobby them. I was simply stating why it wasn't worth my time (Someone has asked for my personal highlights in last weeks' thread) and I was reading all the back and forth crap from yesterday in this thread and explaining why it just isn't worth it.
People have made up their minds and despite a legal swing and never being pulled by API, I have an asterisk by my name in some peoples' eyes and that is why I can't stay silent about it. I don't even know how straight my swing is vs. this supposed 0.6% that get pulled when it is viewed with the fancy API chart. I may not be nearly as straight as they are without asking and what reason do I have to ask if I never get scores removed?
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Post by GW_Hope on Jan 27, 2019 12:02:09 GMT -5
Just so you know, I have been lobbying HB for months. I get some replies and locked threads. They don’t want to hear it. But if only a couple complain they think it’s good. I just want equality, whether that is making full swings less sensitive or short one more I don’t care. Xbox is a whole entire discussion. Isn’t that why we play TGCT? It’s the closest thing to a fair and equal competition. HB broke it! Just don’t take it tbe wrong way. I am not attacking how anybody plays the game. But when somebody is surprised they get a DQ and they short swing I feel the need to explain to help them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 12:08:22 GMT -5
So at least quantify that you think that some take it to the extreme and are trying to game the system and push it to the very edge and some simply pick up the controller and can put up pretty much get the same results naturally.
Son't lump every short swing you may see on a stream or video as all the same. If it was as easy as you imply, then it wouldn't be an issue as everyone on PS4 could just do it.
Not to pick any side but some people that try it will get an API DQ since they are inheriy accurate to begin with. That is my entire issue with HB. Some can be not so great at swinging and gain a huge benefit while others who are more accurate are stuck using a full line that is very sensitive to any minor dispersion. There is no middle ground. I can’t even go past half loft club or I will be 10 yards off target. We see the steams and watch what the short swing gets away with. We have tested it ourselves. We do know. This has to do with controller variance, IMO, moreso than type of swing. I would never deny some legal controllers (I mean DS4 and XB1) are more inherently straight than others.
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Post by GW_Hope on Jan 27, 2019 12:14:26 GMT -5
Not to pick any side but some people that try it will get an API DQ since they are inheriy accurate to begin with. That is my entire issue with HB. Some can be not so great at swinging and gain a huge benefit while others who are more accurate are stuck using a full line that is very sensitive to any minor dispersion. There is no middle ground. I can’t even go past half loft club or I will be 10 yards off target. We see the steams and watch what the short swing gets away with. We have tested it ourselves. We do know. This has to do with controller variance, IMO, moreso than type of swing. I would never deny some legal controllers (I mean DS4 and XB1) are more inherently straight than others.
From what I have seen, not you in particular but somebody else is that this person can be outside the blue channel consistently and still be with in mere feet of tbe pin. If my full line even touches the edge I am twice as far away and outside forget it I will be off the green.
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Post by Dave on Jan 27, 2019 12:17:36 GMT -5
Just to clarify what people are saying here. Short swinging enables the user to hit the ball dead straight every time, hit perfect distances, judge the wind perfectly, judge elevation perfectly, judge lie perfectly, read the greens perfectly and hit putts with a perfect weight every time?
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Post by GW_Hope on Jan 27, 2019 12:19:18 GMT -5
Just to clarify what people are saying here. Short swinging enables the user to hit the ball dead straight every time, hit perfect distances, judge the wind perfectly, judge elevation perfectly, judge lie perfectly, read the greens perfectly and hit putts with a perfect weight every time? There you go again making assumptions. The answer is no. A 3rd party controller still had to do that too. I am not attacking you Dave so don’t get so defensive It’s the stupid @!$#ing game!
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Post by Dave on Jan 27, 2019 12:33:44 GMT -5
Just to clarify what people are saying here. Short swinging enables the user to hit the ball dead straight every time, hit perfect distances, judge the wind perfectly, judge elevation perfectly, judge lie perfectly, read the greens perfectly and hit putts with a perfect weight every time? There you go again making assumptions. The answer is no. A 3rd party controller still had to do that too. I am not attacking you Dave so don’t get so defensive It’s the stupid @!$#ing game! It’s not just you tho, and it’s tired. People are making out that short swingers are automatically going to have a massive advantage over everyone else. They might get a minor advantage in accuracy but still need to be able to get their heads round the rest of the above.
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Post by vivamexico on Jan 27, 2019 12:36:01 GMT -5
So is it safe to say that a vast majority of the top ranked players use the flick method? It is frustrating to read players on societies every day complaining about people cheating , but no one is cheating and although there are only a small percentage of players who actually post messages on here , there are a lot more people who actually read the posts from the top players . And when players ask How the hell can the top players shoot great scores most of the time, now I know the answer , by flicking , not by cheating , so I think it’s important to share that info , because this game needs as many players as possible , rather than people getting angry and frustrated because they can’t shoot great scores . There are around 3000 tgc tours players , it would be nice to have more , rather than people giving up because they can’t fiigure out how to compete with the best . And yes , it takes time and effort , but at least now hopefully everyone who reads all this will understand that no one is cheating !
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Post by GW_Hope on Jan 27, 2019 12:39:34 GMT -5
So is it safe to say that a vast majority of the top ranked players use the flick method? It is frustrating to read players on societies every day complaining about people cheating , but no one is cheating and although there are only a small percentage of players who actually post messages on here , there are a lot more people who actually read the posts from the top players . And when players ask How the hell can the top players shoot great scores most of the time, now I know the answer , by flicking , not by cheating , so I think it’s important to share that info , because this game needs as many players as possible , rather than people getting angry and frustrated because they can’t shoot great scores . There are around 3000 tgc tours players , it would be nice to have more , rather than people giving up because they can’t fiigure out how to compete with the best . And yes , it takes time and effort , but at least now hopefully everyone who reads all this will understand that no one is cheating ! To be great you have to do like Dave says. In reality we are talking about a mere few strokes here and there. You will never gain 10 strokes or anything like that. At the top a few strokes is tbe diff of top 10 vs top 50
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 12:44:51 GMT -5
From what I have seen, not you in particular but somebody else is that this person can be outside the blue channel consistently and still be with in mere feet of tbe pin. If my full line even touches the edge I am twice as far away and outside forget it I will be off the green. Any video evidence of this? I find it hard to believe, because when I go for deliberate fast downswings with 2w or 2h, I sometimes get a short line, and if I go outside the right hand side of the cone on that shot, it goes wildly right exactly as you'd expect, so much so that the fast can't compensate and it's a disaster. What you're referring to may be a PS4 bug specifically, but I'd like to see some evidence because it sounds insane to me.
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Post by SmilingGoats on Jan 27, 2019 13:04:57 GMT -5
This is far from definitive but it sure does seem like the game was a little more forgiving on these shots than it would have been on equivalent full lines:
"https://www.twitch.tv/videos/364738525?t=00h16m46s"
"https://www.twitch.tv/videos/364738525?t=00h22m43s"
I'd love an explanation from HB on those shots.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 13:17:27 GMT -5
This is far from definitive but it sure does seem like the game was a little more forgiving on these shots than it would have been on equivalent full lines: "https://www.twitch.tv/videos/364738525?t=00h16m46s" "https://www.twitch.tv/videos/364738525?t=00h22m43s" I'd love an explanation from HB on those shots. First one makes no sense and ? the only thing I can guess is that in the very middle of the feedback (the point where the swing started) the line temporarily goes back into the blue channel, and maybe HB recognizes that moreso and or there is some emphasis on that one area? idk, just theorizing.
Second one could still be in the blue channel?! The feedback line is basically as wide as the blue channel itself, so it is hard to tell where the line would end up on a chart like the ones you can detail with API data breaking it down as far as it does. Thing is... this doesn't seem to be an actual TGCT event for you to test, right?
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Post by mrohde4 on Jan 27, 2019 13:19:08 GMT -5
Here’s my list: 1. Acknowledgment that the flick swing produces an accuracy advantage over a technique that produces a full line. That’s it. Nobody is asking for video evidence, scores pulled, representatives standing over shoulders, etc. But this ostrich-head-in-the-sand routine that short swings aren’t more accurate is laughable. Don’t piss on my head and tell me it’s raining. It's an advantage so far as one knows how to utilize it effectively. You choose to use the full line. You are on PS4 and could short swing if you wanted to, but instead you imply that others should change or else they will never be viewed the same as a method that inherently has a disadvantage. See how I can flip that on its head against you just like you are doing to me/others?
Again, HB created this with their data interpretation changes in this version, lobby them. I was simply stating why it wasn't worth my time (Someone has asked for my personal highlights in last weeks' thread) and I was reading all the back and forth crap from yesterday in this thread and explaining why it just isn't worth it.
People have made up their minds and despite a legal swing and never being pulled by API, I have an asterisk by my name in some peoples' eyes and that is why I can't stay silent about it. I don't even know how straight my swing is vs. this supposed 0.6% that get pulled when it is viewed with the fancy API chart. I may not be nearly as straight as they are without asking and what reason do I have to ask if I never get scores removed?
HB devs have all but admitted the game is designed for the swing mechanic to be pushed to the top of the plastic. The in-game tutorials instruct players to “push” the stick forward. So to say that players who push the stick all the way and produce a full line are “inherently” at a disadvantage is a disingenuous argument to say the least. You’re absolutely right the focus should be on HB, but again, it’s time for widespread acknowledgment that it’s an advantage accuracy-wise. Players can use it, but it’s a design flaw and distorts the competition. I’d go so far as to say it’s an exploit, but I know that’s a dirty word around here. We can all agree the difference between par and birdie is razor thin. Short swings don’t sink putts, but the long-term advantages of closer proximity on approaches is a monumental advantage.
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Post by lessangster on Jan 27, 2019 13:21:39 GMT -5
This shot should have gone well left in my opinion but it finished up in the fairway because of the stick coming back to its centre position. If you have a game that can give you that sort of result from an obviously poor swing I don’t see the point of arguing about a short swing that if extended would still be straighter than my result.
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