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Post by theclv24 on Feb 16, 2019 21:08:16 GMT -5
So this is fun... I checked and re-checked multiple times to make sure I wasn't losing my mind. I found a course in the database called "Augusta National 2019" by craig151, has a little under 6000 plays. When I fired it up, I thought it looked familiar. After zooming around the course, I thought the planting looked extremely familiar. Almost as if someone took the original version of Magnolia National in TGC1 (there is no pine straw in this version) and published it in TGC 2019, without making any changes to account for the messed up Boreal theme in 19. I compared the flower planting on the 6th hole with my current 6th hole, since I barely touched the flowers there through the different iterations, and they looked identical. Just to be sure, I fired up TGC1 and looked at Magnolia National 2016 for comparison: Augusta National 2019 - TGC19 Magnolia National 2016 - TGC1 I looked around further, wondering if there was any other explanation. After looking at planting on 12, 13, and the clubhouses, I don't see any other explanation. This has to be my first Magnolia National course. Augusta National 2019 - TGC19 Magnolia National 2016 - TGC1 Augusta National 2019 - TGC19 Magnolia National 2016 - TGC1 Augusta National 2019 - TGC19 Magnolia National 2016 - TGC1 I continued the fun detective work by checking on the designer's other work. I thought I recognized craig151 as the original Whistling Straits designer in TGC1. The only other course I see in 19 by him is Whistling Straits kids tee. Checked on it, and it is indeed his version of Whistling Straits, but with super short tees. Lastly, I checked to see if this version of Augusta was in TGC2. Unless it was named something totally different, I don't see it there. So perhaps somehow the TGC1 version made it's way to TGC19 through some kind of evil sorcery? So as fun as that was to investigate, I guess it's not really that cool. My first question would be how is this possible? My second question would be, is there any way this could have happened in an unintentional way? And last question, if this was intentionally done, why would someone do this?
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Post by rod81simo on Feb 16, 2019 21:18:00 GMT -5
That is very odd indeed, it’s definitely the same course looking at the pics. I saw one of my PS4 friends (can’t remember who) start a round on Augusta National 2019 and thought to myself at the time hat maybe you had finished and published it on 2019 and gave it the Augusta naming so I later checked the forum and you were still plodding away on yours so I didn’t think anymore of it or check out that course.
Did you email Craig a file back in TGC1 maybe? All I can think of??? 🤔
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Post by theclv24 on Feb 16, 2019 21:25:11 GMT -5
That is very odd indeed, it’s definitely the same course looking at the pics. I saw one of my PS4 friends (can’t remember who) start a round on Augusta National 2019 and thought to myself at the time hat maybe you had finished and published it on 2019 and gave it the Augusta naming so I later checked the forum and you were still plodding away on yours so I didn’t think anymore of it or check out that course. Did you email Craig a file back in TGC1 maybe? All I can think of??? 🤔 Hey Rod, good to see you around here! Two heads are definitely better than one. That is one thing I didn't think to check. After a few e-mail searches in my inbox, I discovered that I used to send Craig courses files in TGC1 so they could be published for the ProTee version of the game. Magnolia was one of those courses, so that must be it. As far as I know, ProTee never got any kind of update and still plays TGC1 courses, but I could be wrong. Even if they could hypothetically play TGC19 courses, a heads up and request for permission before publishing would have been nice. Well that was quick. Thanks Rod!
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Post by rod81simo on Feb 16, 2019 21:48:58 GMT -5
That is very odd indeed, it’s definitely the same course looking at the pics. I saw one of my PS4 friends (can’t remember who) start a round on Augusta National 2019 and thought to myself at the time hat maybe you had finished and published it on 2019 and gave it the Augusta naming so I later checked the forum and you were still plodding away on yours so I didn’t think anymore of it or check out that course. Did you email Craig a file back in TGC1 maybe? All I can think of??? 🤔 Hey Rod, good to see you around here! Two heads are definitely better than one. That is one thing I didn't think to check. After a few e-mail searches in my inbox, I discovered that I used to send Craig courses files in TGC1 so they could be published for the ProTee version of the game. Magnolia was one of those courses, so that must be it. As far as I know, ProTee never got any kind of update and still plays TGC1 courses, but I could be wrong. Even if they could hypothetically play TGC19 courses, a heads up and request for permission before publishing would have been nice. Well that was quick. Thanks Rod! For sure mate, I can’t comprehend after reading this why Craig118 would press the button on 2019 without reaching out to you, there’s a few things that beckon for some reasoning on his behalf 1) Why publish someone else’s work without some kind of consent? 2) Actually changing the name to Augusta and the 2019 branding (this will no doubt be getting a lot of plays because of both of these) And after saying these couple of things the fact of the matter that te course file wasn’t updated in anyway in 2019 just goes to show the lack of respect for mine with regards to the Boreal theme issues when porting over old courses with the tree issues and the like. Sorry to hear all of this Craig it must have been numbing to come across this, I’d be pissed!
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Post by bradleystuart on Feb 16, 2019 22:26:38 GMT -5
As far as I know, ProTee never got any kind of update and still plays TGC1 courses, but I could be wrong. Even if they could hypothetically play TGC19 courses, a heads up and request for permission before publishing would have been nice. They are about to move over to the new game very soon at ProTee from what I read on the sim forums. Anyway, I am sorry to read about this. I know how much work goes into one of these golf courses.
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Post by theclv24 on Feb 16, 2019 22:29:39 GMT -5
I must be mellowing with age, because I am feeling more amused than angered. I almost think it's too bad the trees are so off, because it would be a fun comparison between where the courses started and where it is now. I'm also amused that that version of the course has 4.5 stars after almost 6000 plays.
Definitely a puzzling decision to publish it, not sure if we will ever get to the bottom of it. I'm not feeling confrontational enough to e-mail Craig about it.
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reebdoog
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,742
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Post by reebdoog on Feb 16, 2019 23:16:34 GMT -5
meh...virtual cred isn't worth the hassle generally speaking. Besides the whole thing could be a misunderstanding or a mistake or any number of things. WHo knows really. Folks all have crap going on so generally just give folks the benefit of the doubt and keep trucking.
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Post by rod81simo on Feb 16, 2019 23:33:16 GMT -5
meh...virtual cred isn't worth the hassle generally speaking. Besides the whole thing could be a misunderstanding or a mistake or any number of things. WHo knows really. Folks all have crap going on so generally just give folks the benefit of the doubt and keep trucking. It’s not the virtual cred, to me it’s the fact that the course isn’t right to port over as is with the tree issue and the fact that now it’s named Augusta National 2019 and will take plays away from Royce and eventually CLV when Magnolia is done as I reckon most players will just load up 2019 over Royce’s 2018 and Augusta over Magnolia.... it’s just not right and I’d hope that there was some logical reasoning behind Craig118’s decision although I can’t see one. Agree that it’s not worth getting hung up over but where is respect these days.....
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Post by joegolferg on Feb 17, 2019 10:13:48 GMT -5
I'll say it first... Craig151 is a dick.
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Post by theclv24 on Feb 17, 2019 10:34:45 GMT -5
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Post by coruler2 on Feb 17, 2019 12:20:18 GMT -5
Interesting for sure Craig...good sleuthing to find his intentions were just and gave you credit...but still funny that you 'weren't around'. Pretty simple to message people in the forums.
Also funny to see friendBOMBER selling his RCR creation services.
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Post by theclv24 on Feb 17, 2019 15:02:08 GMT -5
Final update on the Augusta National 2019 situation. I sent an e-mail to Craig explaining that I understood he had no ill intentions, but wished he wouldn't have published it, and outlined the reasons why. I then asked him not to publish anymore versions of the old Magnolia until I send over my new update, and thanked him for his understanding.
Reply, in full, presented without comment: "Sorry. A few simple guys wanted to play it. It's just a game."
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Post by theclv24 on Feb 17, 2019 15:52:13 GMT -5
So for an actual update, I've been playtesting and making small adjustments as I go along, and I think I'm finally feeling ok about the course. I just have the 4th pins left to test.
Since I was anticipating I wouldn't be at this point until mid-March, I originally started making the tournament version of the course. I think it looks good with the adjustments that I've made for the crowd (although I wish I could make the crowd a little more dense along the theoretical rope lines), but without crowds it looks kind of funny. When I finish testing, I'll likely duplicate the course file and then take another day or two to remove crowds and tourney objects, and replace the fairway areas I took out to accommodate the crowds. This way I can release both versions at the same time.
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Post by Irving R. Levine on Feb 19, 2019 15:17:54 GMT -5
Final update on the Augusta National 2019 situation. I sent an e-mail to Craig explaining that I understood he had no ill intentions, but wished he wouldn't have published it, and outlined the reasons why. I then asked him not to publish anymore versions of the old Magnolia until I send over my new update, and thanked him for his understanding. Reply, in full, presented without comment: "Sorry. A few simple guys wanted to play it. It's just a game." OK, this makes me come back from a self-imposed exile. "It's just a game"? SCREW YOU CRAIG. CLV busted his ass on that course and you had NO right to publish a new version without reaching out to him first. And saying "Not sure what happened to Craig" on the other forum? Really? You knew damn well he's around the TGC Tours forums and sites. One post on the TGCT forums would let you know what happened to Craig...namely...he's still freaking here and kicking ass and taking names. Dick move, Craig. DICK move.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2019 15:30:01 GMT -5
I'll wait. I'd rather wait an play a clv version than jump in and play a unrefined edition
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