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Post by wheelman81 on Sept 15, 2016 12:46:00 GMT -5
Adding an elite tour is otter nonsense Isn't that what the euro and pga tour is ? I know i way not be able to compete with the top 5 but lets be honest most of you cant . I come on here to try to compete with the best , not who you think i should compete with. If you want an elite tour make it harder for us to get and keep pro cards , ie. Less exemption and do more than make cut to keep cards.Anyways its just my opinion by adding an elite tour will do nothing Good for game ,
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Post by jarednich on Sept 15, 2016 12:46:46 GMT -5
Early results from new Q school CC-Z- 3249 players CC-E- 0 players CC-D- 0 players CC-C- 0 players CC-B- 0 players CC-A 0 players Web 20 players Euro- 60 players PGA- 60 players  |
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Post by Moe Slorkman on Sept 15, 2016 12:47:50 GMT -5
Just to give you the pulse of where we are at now - obviously the elite tour idea didn't get much (if any) support from people responding here. Safe to say that option will likely not come to fruition unless the data from my poll I'm working on shows otherwise. So let's focus less on that and more on the PGA 1 Euro 2 model and see where your opinions stand there. If we did a model where the end goal was to make it to the top tour (PGA) against the best of the best - would that appease more or still same result? EDIT: Wags has it displayed a few posts above I don't hate this idea but would it not cause issues re the Ryder cup calculations? And also what if players wanted to stay in Euro because well there European . Personally I'd want to stay in Euro . Maybe the WGR incentive rather than it euro been a feeder for PGA would be a better idea. But let's call a spade a spade it's the same concept your trying to action and make it seem like a compromise  . |
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Post by unclefester75 on Sept 15, 2016 12:48:13 GMT -5
Here is an idea! Make all major tournaments open to all TCGTour players (unlimited field) with a certain percentage of the leaderboard earning an automatic bump and maybe a certain percentage losing a card for poor play. This way, all players are on somewhat of an equal field and it will help level things out some. For example, a CC-A player makes the top 100, they automaticall get bumped to WEB. A WEB player makes top 50, they get bumped to PGA. A PGA player places 250th, auto bump to WEB.
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Post by Moe Slorkman on Sept 15, 2016 12:51:16 GMT -5
Here is an idea! Make all major tournaments open to all TCGTour players (unlimited field) with a certain percentage of the leaderboard earning an automatic bump and maybe a certain percentage losing a card for poor play. This way, all players are on somewhat of an equal field and it will help level things out some. For example, a CC-A player makes the top 100, they automaticall get bumped to WEB. A WEB player makes top 50, they get bumped to PGA. A PGA player places 250th, auto bump to WEB. So let's turn prestigious events into a crapshoot? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2016 12:52:43 GMT -5
Scott, if that's the case, then make this a true 4 tier system. Right now, at least in my perception, PGA/Euro is the same level, even though, as a North American and growing up watching Arnold Palmer, the PGA is my goal. Hell, I never even heard of Euro when I was a kid. How did they get on the same level as the PGA? If this is all about prestige, the solution is simple. CC=>Web=>Euro=>PGA When TGC 2 starts, throw everybody into the blender. And I mean EVERYBODY. Reset all WGR and everything else. We're starting fresh. Have a 4 week tourney marathon to determine who is in... CC-Z CC-E CC-D CC-C CC-B CC-A Web Euro PGA And yes, I get that I may actually end up in CC-Z with a new mechanic that may totally F me up. But guess what? NOW I have some REAL incentive. 1) To get better with the new swing mechanic. That alone may be a real challenge. In fact, TGC 2 may bring renewed enjoyment all by itself to the game. You may get players back that you lost a long time ago. 2) Something to really shoot for. A chance to play in the PGA. And it may take me yet another year or longer to get there. That's fine. In fact, it may be the most fun I've had playing this game since I started. There you go. That's your solution. This way, the best players are in the PGA, just like in real life. Web becomes a stepping stone to Euro and Euro becomes a stepping stone to the PGA. I would support this new setup 100% as long as there was no longer the option to bounce between PGA and Euro. You want to play in the PGA? Earn it. You want to move up from Web to Euro? Earn it. The more I think about this, the more I like it. For once, I mostly agree with you here. I definitely think everyone should have to play a new Q-School and earn new cards. I'd be disappointed to have my WGR wiped, but that's fine, too. However, if they wipe all the stats, trophies, etc. from the last two years, then I will seriously have to consider whether I want to continue with this tour for TGC 2. I mean, what's the point of playing and trying to earn this fake money and these fake trophies if they just get wiped every time we cross over to the newest game? Trophies would not be wiped. At least wouldn't wipe them. What you earned, you earned. But because it's a new swing mechanic, nobody will REALLY know how well they will play with it. Just because somebody is WGR 50 with the old one doesn't mean they will be with the new one. They may do better. They may do worse. All I'm saying is, we need to go back to Q School with the new mechanic to see where we place. Either Q School or a 4 week tourney where everybody competes against everybody. All 2,000 golfers or however many there are. If you're really that good at the game it shouldn't matter. You'll probably still end up in the elite and thus get your PGA card. What I don't understand is this whole PGA vs Euro thing. I always assumed that the elite WAS the PGA. Isn't this true in the real world? Isn't that the ultimate goal of every golfer? Isn't that were more money is? Isn't that were the biggest events are? (Masters, PGA Open, etc) When did these two tours become equal in the eyes of golfers? I know I'm an old timer who grew up with Nicholas and Palmer but where was Euro back in the 60s and 70s? When did it come about and when did it get on equal ground with the PGA? |
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Post by unclefester75 on Sept 15, 2016 12:55:07 GMT -5
Here is an idea! Make all major tournaments open to all TCGTour players (unlimited field) with a certain percentage of the leaderboard earning an automatic bump and maybe a certain percentage losing a card for poor play. This way, all players are on somewhat of an equal field and it will help level things out some. For example, a CC-A player makes the top 100, they automaticall get bumped to WEB. A WEB player makes top 50, they get bumped to PGA. A PGA player places 250th, auto bump to WEB. So let's turn prestigious events into a crapshoot? Yes, wouldn't that make them more important? Take The Master's for instance, let eveyone enjoy playing Augusta and it would carry more weight of importance if there was something on the line and not just a tournament for the top 100 or so players. |
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Post by smurfblade88 on Sept 15, 2016 12:57:35 GMT -5
Now the other option that was presented - PGA 1 Euro 2 Web 3...would you Euro players accept that order and be willing to move to North America for your golf if that was where the best WGR points were available? That would also balance out the tours - just not as drastically as skimming 70 of the best. So basically the issue is that the best players play on Euro and u wanna get them on the PGA? |
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Post by Moe Slorkman on Sept 15, 2016 12:57:42 GMT -5
So let's turn prestigious events into a crapshoot? Yes, wouldn't that make them more important? Take The Master's for instance, let eveyone enjoy playing Augusta and it would carry more weight of importance if there was something on the line and not just a tournament for the top 100 or so players. Sigh . I'm just going to walk away before I get myself banned |
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Post by smurfblade88 on Sept 15, 2016 12:58:21 GMT -5
Now the other option that was presented - PGA 1 Euro 2 Web 3...would you Euro players accept that order and be willing to move to North America for your golf if that was where the best WGR points were available? That would also balance out the tours - just not as drastically as skimming 70 of the best. would the pga players accept moving to Europe because 3 of the top 4 in the world play there? Exactly |
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Post by DoubtfulObelisk on Sept 15, 2016 12:59:33 GMT -5
For once, I mostly agree with you here. I definitely think everyone should have to play a new Q-School and earn new cards. I'd be disappointed to have my WGR wiped, but that's fine, too. However, if they wipe all the stats, trophies, etc. from the last two years, then I will seriously have to consider whether I want to continue with this tour for TGC 2. I mean, what's the point of playing and trying to earn this fake money and these fake trophies if they just get wiped every time we cross over to the newest game? I disagree with Wags here about the Euro and PGA not having equal status unless the top tour combined all of the major events. Maybe instead of calling it the PGA it would be called something else because it should include The Open and other major European events Fair point. For what it's worth, I'd prefer giving PGA players a handful of crossover opportunities to take a break from the grind or to play in the premier Euro events. I like Oswinner's proposed WGR multipliers in that context, as well. |
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Post by Moe Slorkman on Sept 15, 2016 13:00:09 GMT -5
Now the other option that was presented - PGA 1 Euro 2 Web 3...would you Euro players accept that order and be willing to move to North America for your golf if that was where the best WGR points were available? That would also balance out the tours - just not as drastically as skimming 70 of the best. So basically the issue is that the best players play on Euro and u wanna get them on the PGA? He just want to herd yous all together so a higher % of players can have a realistic chance of winning |
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Post by ijs1543 on Sept 15, 2016 13:00:44 GMT -5
So we want to mimic real life but Europeans cant play on the European tour  |
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Sept 15, 2016 13:03:08 GMT -5
I disagree with Wags here about the Euro and PGA not having equal status unless the top tour combined all of the major events. Maybe instead of calling it the PGA it would be called something else because it should include The Open and other major European events Fair point. For what it's worth, I'd prefer giving PGA players a handful of crossover opportunities to take a break from the grind or to play in the premier Euro events. I like Oswinner's proposed WGR multipliers in that context, as well. Agree. If I were "forced" onto the PGA i would still want to play the bigger euro events (BMW PGA, Irish/Scottish/French Open) |
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Post by Brighttail on Sept 15, 2016 13:04:52 GMT -5
Coming as a person who has been as high ranked at 18th and who was fortunate enough to win a tournament that happened to be a major, I can honestly say my current skill set is no where close to those 'elite' players Doyley has talked about, and yet I'm some how considered to be an elite player due to my current WGR. My current WGR is really based on what I did in mainly in season 1 and about 20% of season 2. Because the formula it is hard to drop quickly in the WGR. I went 8 months without raising a single point. Had all the numbers been reset at the start of season two I don't think i would be in the top 50. I make the majority of the cuts but average 40-50 in my finishes. Does that make me an elite player? Compared to 4000 other players, yes. Compared to the top 10-20 that consistently win/in top 10, I'm no where close and would consistently finish in the bottom of such a tour.
There always has to be a 'line' and like everything the people who are just above that line will suffer, regardless where that line is. Season 2 from a player's standpoint in the PGA/Euro was pretty much (in my opinion) a farce. I talked with many folks who were so happy to get their Euro/PGA card only to realize, they felt they had no chance to win a tournament. It is quite a shock to win and do well, fight your way up to the top tour only to get there and realize your skills are sh%$ in comparison. This is not to take anything away from Ian, Brad, Doyley and the others who worked hard and play this game at a level that is simply spectacular.
I'll be honest. I shouldn't have won the tournament that I did. I got extremely lucky but in season 1 I felt like I might have a chance again. In season 2, there were no delusions of grandeur. I knew I wasn't going to win anything again. I was playing for the fact that I enjoyed the game, but even then it became more of a chore than fun. Knowing that I would have to play lights out and the best that I could just to have a chance at a top 20 (Seriously that is how good you guys have become).
I honestly don't know what will be decided. I see Doyley's point that this site has to cater to the people who have never won anything and feel that they have no chance in the current system, frankly I feel now I'm one of them. I'm torn because part of this is unfair to those who are so good that we are considering exiling them to their own tour, but I'm well aware of the complaints of those who know they can't win as it is now. I believe I'm at that cusp that would be between the two tours and have NO interest in bouncing between the two. I guess i'll wait for your poll and see where it goes. Frankly for me, I'm not sure what I would do or want at this point, but I do see the bigger picture.
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