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Post by jarednich on Sept 15, 2016 13:08:09 GMT -5
So we want to mimic real life but Europeans cant play on the European tour  If this was real life you would play the majority of your golf on PGA. In real life, PGA>Euro. The money is there, and money outweighs WGR for those guys. Here, Euro>PGA (it's fairly close) because money is meaningless, WGR is similar on both tours, and as it so happens, there are many top players that are European. |
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Post by DoubtfulObelisk on Sept 15, 2016 13:11:32 GMT -5
would the pga players accept moving to Europe because 3 4 of the top 4 5 in the world play there? Exactly Fixed it for ya. On a more serious note, I would be moderately opposed, to be perfectly honest. As an American, my interest is in the PGA Tour: I know the courses, I know the tournaments, and I know the players much better. It also doesn't make much real-life sense, given that the PGA Tour is indisputably the top tour in the world, based on money and prestige. I wouldn't leave if forced to play the Euro Tour, but I would not be in favor of the move. Of course, you guys have the strength in numbers, and I can understand wanting to play on your home continent. It's a primary reason I want to stick to PGA. |
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Post by TROWELHEAD on Sept 15, 2016 13:12:51 GMT -5
So we want to mimic real life but Europeans cant play on the European tour If this was real life you would play the majority of your golf on PGA. In real life, PGA>Euro. The money is there, and money outweighs WGR for those guys. Here, Euro>PGA (it's fairly close) because money is meaningless, WGR is similar on both tours, and as it so happens, there are many top players that are European. This is not how stenson or mcilroy won the r2d tho eh? They both played more European events or 'av i just made that up lol |
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Post by smurfblade88 on Sept 15, 2016 13:13:54 GMT -5
TLDR but the OP made me post. This has been me consistantly the entire last season. Constantly between 50-100 WGR and finishing anywhere between 10th-50th most weeks. However will I win a tourny, no, not a chance. You are Spon on when you say that whilst I can compete on the tour, will I ever win a tournament, no, and it's not because I'm not.that good it's because the game is far easier than really life at being consistant. Look at Speith, will Bradley etc ever have a run of a few tournies where they cant make top 10, never, because it's too easy to maintain consistency. I have become disillusioned due to this I think and whilst it's nobodies fault I find it harder week after week to complete rounds when I already know roughly where I'm going to finish before a ball is hit! We were all in this spot. If it matter so much then u need to put the effort in to get better like the top players did. In my 1st few months on here i prob averaged a 40-50th place finish. Then after some hard graft managed a 2nd on the PGA. This gave me the confidence that i cud cut it at that level. The standards on here have risen in time and it has taken alot of dedictaion from the top players to rise with it. So my point is if it really bothers u about ur avr finishing position then do something about it. If u cant be arsed doin something about it then u cant complain. |
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Post by smurfblade88 on Sept 15, 2016 13:15:04 GMT -5
One other thing I forgot sure if you can't win a top level trophy and you really need a trophy just create a second profile give it your partners name get your pet to play qschool and destroy everyone in the lower tours. Haha beaut |
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Post by yaters on Sept 15, 2016 13:18:05 GMT -5
I probably wouldn't mind if you split PGA and EURO to a 1a and 1b situation. Not sure what your idea is there though, top 100 WGR or qualify like you do now from Web to PGA/EURO? If it's top 100 WGR, that might be a nightmare for people hovering around the 100 mark going from tour to tour each week.
Not sure it really solves the competitive problem though.
I can't imagine the crying and whining from the Euro group if you took away their tour or demoted it to a second tier though.
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Post by smurfblade88 on Sept 15, 2016 13:19:16 GMT -5
Just to give you the pulse of where we are at now - obviously the elite tour idea didn't get much (if any) support from people responding here. Safe to say that option will likely not come to fruition unless the data from my poll I'm working on shows otherwise. So let's focus less on that and more on the PGA 1 Euro 2 model and see where your opinions stand there. If we did a model where the end goal was to make it to the top tour (PGA) against the best of the best - would that appease more or still same result? EDIT: Wags has it displayed a few posts above Correct me if im wrong here but dont the top players IRL have the choice to play PGA or EURO on a weekly basis? So currently we hav that system to a tee. But ur suggesting not giving players the choice? By all means incentivise players to play the PGA with more money or WGR pts or whatever they do IRL but takin the choice away is a bad move IMO. Only being able to play the 1 course thats on the menu every week will accelerate the burnout. |
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Post by Brighttail on Sept 15, 2016 13:19:54 GMT -5
In response to the person who said those that have been around the longest have an advantage. This is ABSOLUTELY true. We started off and there was no WEB tour so pretty much everyone got into the PGA/Euro with little to no work. If I had to go back and start over, I wouldn't have made the PGA/Euro and would have started off in the Web or CC-A. Also once you have a high WGR it is pretty tough to go down. I was 18th after season 1. The game changed for me and for 8 months I would make cuts but really didn't have hardly any top 30's. It took me 8 months to go down to where I am now with me not raising in ranking. If you were to have everyone go through Q-school now I firmly believe your top 100 would be significantly different. Those newer players who are good would vault to the top over many vetrans because they are better, but because of our time in service it takes more time. From what I'm hearing Doyley say is really the top 20-30 is on a whole different level from 31-176. I think Bob needs to go through and graph all that out.  |
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Post by TROWELHEAD on Sept 15, 2016 13:20:26 GMT -5
Fixed it for ya. On a more serious note, I would be moderately opposed, to be perfectly honest. As an American, my interest is in the PGA Tour: I know the courses, I know the tournaments, and I know the players much better. It also doesn't make much real-life sense, given that the PGA Tour is indisputably the top tour in the world, based on money and prestige. I wouldn't leave if forced to play the Euro Tour, but I would not be in favor of the move. Of course, you guys have the strength in numbers, and I can understand wanting to play on your home continent. It's a primary reason I want to stick to PGA. This whole thread was to appease 'the numbers ' So inadvertently uv sed the no1 tour is the European so come across an' enjoy lol |
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Post by jarednich on Sept 15, 2016 13:21:42 GMT -5
If this was real life you would play the majority of your golf on PGA. In real life, PGA>Euro. The money is there, and money outweighs WGR for those guys. Here, Euro>PGA (it's fairly close) because money is meaningless, WGR is similar on both tours, and as it so happens, there are many top players that are European. This is not how stenson or mcilroy won the r2d tho eh? They both played more European events or 'av i just made that up lol Let's look at this year then... Stenson played 14 PGA and 12 Euro Rory played 17 PGA and 11 Euro So maybe yes, you 'av made that up. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2016 13:22:04 GMT -5
Coming as a person who has been as high ranked at 18th and who was fortunate enough to win a tournament that happened to be a major, I can honestly say my current skill set is no where close to those 'elite' players Doyley has talked about, and yet I'm some how considered to be an elite player due to my current WGR. My current WGR is really based on what I did in mainly in season 1 and about 20% of season 2. Because the formula it is hard to drop quickly in the WGR. I went 8 months without raising a single point. Had all the numbers been reset at the start of season two I don't think i would be in the top 50. I make the majority of the cuts but average 40-50 in my finishes. Does that make me an elite player? Compared to 4000 other players, yes. Compared to the top 10-20 that consistently win/in top 10, I'm no where close and would consistently finish in the bottom of such a tour. There always has to be a 'line' and like everything the people who are just above that line will suffer, regardless where that line is. Season 2 from a player's standpoint in the PGA/Euro was pretty much (in my opinion) a farce. I talked with many folks who were so happy to get their Euro/PGA card only to realize, they felt they had no chance to win a tournament. It is quite a shock to win and do well, fight your way up to the top tour only to get there and realize your skills are sh%$ in comparison. This is not to take anything away from Ian, Brad, Doyley and the others who worked hard and play this game at a level that is simply spectacular. I'll be honest. I shouldn't have won the tournament that I did. I got extremely lucky but in season 1 I felt like I might have a chance again. In season 2, there were no delusions of grandeur. I knew I wasn't going to win anything again. I was playing for the fact that I enjoyed the game, but even then it became more of a chore than fun. Knowing that I would have to play lights out and the best that I could just to have a chance at a top 20 (Seriously that is how good you guys have become). I honestly don't know what will be decided. I see Doyley's point that this site has to cater to the people who have never won anything and feel that they have no chance in the current system, frankly I feel now I'm one of them. I'm torn because part of this is unfair to those who are so good that we are considering exiling them to their own tour, but I'm well aware of the complaints of those who know they can't win as it is now. I believe I'm at that cusp that would be between the two tours and have NO interest in bouncing between the two. I guess i'll wait for your poll and see where it goes. Frankly for me, I'm not sure what I would do or want at this point, but I do see the bigger picture. Ron, the bigger picture should be for the ENTIRE community as a whole and NOT just for the 5% that this whole discussion affects. Seriously. Do you think ANYBODY in CC gives a crap about ANY of this? They're just thrilled, like I was, to make it up to Web. News flash. CC has got to be more than HALF of your entire player base. I don't have the figures but I can get them if I have to. Guys in Web? Hell, they're just trying to crawl out of it or, at best, make top 140 so they don't end up in CC next season. Think they give a crap if Ian and company are still in the tour they end up playing in? They're gonna be thrilled (just like I MAY be some day when I'm good enough) just to PLAY in PGA/Euro. So who exactly are we trying to appease here? It sure isn't Ian and his band of brothers. They're gonna win no matter what tour you put them on. Oh wait, even that's not true because Ian's still gonna win 75% of the events anyway. So those 50 guys are still gonna be in the same sh%$ hole that they're in right now, except instead of having the satisfaction of looking behind them as they finish 35th or whatever and at least seeing 200 other guys behind them, they're gonna be looking up from darn near close to the bottom of the barrel. So the ONLY people you're gonna be making happy (maybe) out of this whole freaking community is the 200 golfers between 51 and 250 who will get to beat up on each other for a win. Out of 1,500 golfers you're talking about less than 20% of the player base. How many of that 20% is going to feel less than fulfilled because their victories weren't against the very best? Here is the ugly truth of this whole situation. There IS no solution. Anything you do will NOT make things better. What we have now is pretty much as good as it gets because, news flash, this is a VIDEO GAME. It is NOT real life. You are pulling a joy stick back and pushing it forward. You are NOT swinging a golf club. Thus, if you put in the time and effort to do a lot of math (because there is zero freaking PHYSICAL skill involved) you can master this game just like Ian Sweeney has. I seriously doubt he is a mathematical genius. I know for a fact that I don't put the time into doing the math that I should. I just don't care enough. It would turn this game into a total bore. Because of that, I understand that I'm not going to compete with the best. For those who have a problem with that, hey, there are other games to play. But please, don't let the very few ruin it for those of us who are fine with the way things are. |
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Post by ijs1543 on Sept 15, 2016 13:22:49 GMT -5
So we want to mimic real life but Europeans cant play on the European tour If this was real life you would play the majority of your golf on PGA. In real life, PGA>Euro. The money is there, and money outweighs WGR for those guys. Here, Euro>PGA (it's fairly close) because money is meaningless, WGR is similar on both tours, and as it so happens, there are many top players that are European. Here, most people play on the euro tour because there European |
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Post by smurfblade88 on Sept 15, 2016 13:26:33 GMT -5
So basically the issue is that the best players play on Euro and u wanna get them on the PGA? He just want to herd yous all together so a higher % of players can have a realistic chance of winning But it would hav the opposite effect on this "elite" tour. Some players that are capable of winning a PGA event now wud hav no chance in an elite tour currently. But the main part that seems to be missin from this debate is were gonna be playin a brand new game. So the "elite" cud look quiet different. I personally think everything shud be left alone on the pro tours for all of season 3 and then if theres a big issue fix it for season 4. |
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Post by Macs Power on Sept 15, 2016 13:26:35 GMT -5
I'm a low level Euro player (100% cuts made, 100% small checks) and I LOVE be destroyed by Ian. That feeling when I score -10 and I know he is going to score -17 is priceless.
I don't care losing by 30, I am motivated to learn and play because I can compete with the best players and they show me how bad I am.
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Post by csabo17 on Sept 15, 2016 13:26:36 GMT -5
Didn't you claim you were gonna quit if you lost your web card and had to rejoin cc...? pot meet kettle :-) Not the same thing. I expected nothing handed to me. My reason for quitting, IF I dropped to CC was that I had no desire to play at that level anymore. I was in danger of losing my Web card NOT because of the quality of my play but because I made the tour so late in the season. And I STILL beat out players who were there LONG before me. I was damn proud of that and still am. And actually, this is my same argument here. I don't want to play in a watered down PGA. If I can't play against Ian, I might as well just stay where I am. I have no incentive. But I am NOT looking for any handouts. I thought it was because there was over 100 inactives removed from the list? I sure dont remember the positivity of beating them on your own leading up to the 140 cut became offical. It was more crying about how it wasnt fair that you came to web so late and didnt have a chance to make it to 140. It almost seems like wags is against everything. Just one positive comment from you would be amazing. |
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