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Post by Doyley on Sept 15, 2016 10:15:19 GMT -5
Branched off from the Firm Green announcement here: tgctours.proboards.com/post/165438/thread I thought the aim of TGCT was to mimic the real tours as much as possible. Following that idea they have gotten thousands of people to play on here. The problem is people somehow feel entitled to win or compete to win. If you start accomodating this BS attitude we will end up with 200 tours just to give everyone a feeling that theyre competitive. I wudn change the structure much. The only change id make is splitting the challenge circuit in half cz i think the lower levels of the challenge circuit should get to play easy courses so they at least enjoy their time playin even if theyre not so good. have to balance that with the health of the tours. we have two tours at (usually) 145 active members each. Ian wins 75% of every event he's in and the other 25% come from the same handful of guys (usually top 10 WGR). So we've basically got 265 members that play with no real shot at winning or even placing because Ian and the top 10 are split across two tours. So far everyone that I've seen not like the idea are in that top 20ish group that compete week in and week out for a win. Not sure if you'd win in a tour wide poll once the other 90% weigh in. Loosing the eliteness of a major or WGC (8x a year) and replacing it with a full season of competitive events for more members is the basis of the decision. The first two years it balanced on the major/wgc side - but as guys became better at the game and the # of people actually winning events (and finishing top 10 even) became more and more the same people - that balance has shifted. Another factor - the top 50 WGR rarely miss cuts - maybe a handful a season, if at all. So putting them in their own field of 50-70 with no cut, or a cut of 5-10, doesn't really change much for them other than the fact they now have to compete against a full field of the best players in the world week in and week out. If our tours were similar to the real PGA/Euro tours then we'd have a multitude of different winners with much more than a handful of guys showing up in the top 5. We don't - our elite are just that much better than our pros - and skimming the best off both tours has always been on the table - and always was close to a 50/50 split on which way to go - even from day 1. Now on Day 750 the gap between the best and the good is much greater than on day 1 - and the 50/50 split decision isn't so 50/50 anymore. This is another reason that while mimicking the real tours is ideal, our actual results differ greatly from real life. We also have to keep in mind that we're trying to engage our members and while our top 50 WGR are some of our more active members, the rest of the PGA and Euro players need to be taken into consideration too. Last but not least - this is not something that is planned for TGC1. So while some of you may get all up in arms about it - Season 3 will go on as per usual. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2016 10:21:12 GMT -5
If someone is that much better than I am, then so be it. I really don't like the idea of not having geographic tours that mimic where players on TGCT live IRL.
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Post by Doyley on Sept 15, 2016 10:24:04 GMT -5
If someone is that much better than I am, then so be it. You are included in the "Top 50 WGR" group so you are considered part of the elite - not to be brash or insensitive - but you are not the person this change is supposed to help - you are part of the problem  |
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Post by ijs1543 on Sept 15, 2016 10:27:09 GMT -5
Not a fan of this move at all, so going by your stats that only 10 people compete what about the other 60 players
that wont compete in the super tour they meant to be happy that there chances of a win top 5 top 10 have been harmed?
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Post by ijs1543 on Sept 15, 2016 10:31:53 GMT -5
If someone is that much better than I am, then so be it. You are included in the "Top 50 WGR" group so you are considered part of the elite - not to be brash or insensitive - but you are not the person this change is supposed to help - you are part of the problem but who are you trying to help? the 200 players in the pga/euro that aren't competing so when you move people to an elite tour there will still 170 odd players still not competing will we be splitting it up till everyone has there own tour
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2016 10:32:33 GMT -5
To further my point, as a member of this Top 50 clique, I have little chance to win, nor do I care. I like the FedEx Cup and the R2Dubai.
Furthermore, the uncertainty on how players may play to a new game (TGC2) as far as skill level is unknown.
I just enjoy the PGA experience as it mimics real life pretty close for the FedEx Cup. So does the R2Dubai. No offense to Mr. Sweeney, but if he is breaking things to the point of needing to change the top end tours, that isn't his fault. He just plays that well.
I am a member of the 'Top 50' that you mention, but I have little chance of winning even among the PGA/Euro format that we currently have. I am fine with that, and I am glad we have that setup because it mimics the RL tours.
It's your site, but I disagree with a "super tour". I sort of/kind of can accept something like the TST split from the Main/secondary if it is applied to a different standard... would like to offer input if I could if this is the route we go for TGC2.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2016 10:32:46 GMT -5
No to a super tour. That would blow balls.
However have the PGA tour have more WGR points at stake so the top players are attracted to it over the euro tour. In real life it's money that attracts them, here it will be WGR points.
Major 2x
WGC1.5x
PGA 1x
Euro 0.75x
Minor 0.5x
Web 0.25x
Something like that.
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Post by staypuft39 on Sept 15, 2016 10:33:23 GMT -5
I'm 100-ish on the WGR and would definitely be sad if we revamped the tours. I'd be much more proud of a top 5 in the PGA, than a win over lesser competition. If some people can't hack setting goals that are not victories, that's kind of weird to me.
One suggestion that might merit consideration is having secondary events most weeks, like the TST did. No top 100 WGR's allowed and much reduced prize money.
I really enjoy the way the tours mimic real life currently, personally would be disappointed if that changed.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2016 10:35:20 GMT -5
If someone is that much better than I am, then so be it. You are included in the "Top 50 WGR" group so you are considered part of the elite - not to be brash or insensitive - but you are not the person this change is supposed to help - you are part of the problem Being someone part of the problem that has never won on PGA/Euro and only has 2 top 3's in 50-55 events. I'm sorry I am the problem for playing every week. I would rather have big events against all of the elite in WGCs and the Majors rather than every week. No offense taken. |
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Post by Doyley on Sept 15, 2016 10:35:33 GMT -5
top 10 compete for wins split across the two tours (others have a shot if you aren't in the field *cough me*). The rest of the top 50 are pretty close in skill. Putting all of those in the same tour gives everyone more people of their own skill to compete against instead of splitting it across two tours. So I feel like even though you win 75% of the events you enter, if you are playing against the best of the best week in and week out there's a better competitive value there and more people will likely win since the top 15 or so are close enough to give you a run w/ a good week and the rest of the elite tour aren't out of the equation either with 4 great rounds. 70th place on the Euro tour right now isn't quite at the same level as 70th would be on an elite tour.
As for your "what about the other 60 guys" comment -
if...
60 can't compete on Elite (which I believe is a false # - probably more like 20ish on a bad day)
Currently 230 between PGA/Euro.
We just made 170 (230-60) TGCT members enjoyment meter bump up a notch or two.
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Post by ijs1543 on Sept 15, 2016 10:35:42 GMT -5
No to a super tour. That would blow balls. However have the PGA tour have more WGR points at stake so the top players are attracted to it over the euro tour. In real life it's money that attracts them, here it will be WGR points. Major 2x WGC1.5x PGA 1x Euro 0.75x Minor 0.5x Web 0.25x Something like that. just switch the euro and the pga and we are good to go |
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Post by smurfblade88 on Sept 15, 2016 10:39:27 GMT -5
Not that it means much, i disagree.
On TGCT Ian will still win the majority of the events he plays in so creating a super tour wont change that. It will make it so the PGA guys are as "bored" as the Euro guys who dont feel they can compete.
Of course most of the ppl who dont like it are the top players, theyre the ones its gonna negatively effect. Why wudn the rest be delighted with the idea they might compete for a win every week despite not being good enough to do it in a full field.
Sounds to me like Ian and other top players are being punished for being good at the game. If if the top 10 players had the ability of the WGR 75 (Random) this wudn be an issue.
So what happens when the players in the super tour that thought they cud compete for a win on the PGA realize they now have no chance anymore because Ian wins 75% of his events. Then Brad or Griffin may mop in the other events. Over the course of a season of a super tour we wud hav no more than 5 different winners IMO. How many different winners has the EURO/PGA had this year? Id suggest alot more than 5 so in effect the super tour guys are being punished because theres some ppl out there pissin and moanin about not being able to compete.
Majors and WGCs will jus feel like another weekly event and lose most of its prestige.
Just beacause our tours have top top players that can dominate doesn mean mimicing real life isnt working. Its a video game, and if anyone puts in the effort they too can win but instead they dont put in the effort and expect to be competing too.
Mimicing the structure of RL pro tours is the best thing about TGCT IMO.
If u wanna engage all the players outside the top 50 more maybe u shud run a few more fictional events alongside weekly PGA & EURO events for them where they only can play in.
Then they can have their ego massaged and the rest of the tours can keep to the RL structure.
Plus when TGC 2 comes i dont think anyone will be winnin 75% of their events so usin TGC 1 stats for what may happen in TGC 2 doesn make much sense as it will be a very different game.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2016 10:39:36 GMT -5
top 10 compete for wins split across the two tours (others have a shot if you aren't in the field *cough me*). The rest of the top 50 are pretty close in skill. Putting all of those in the same tour gives everyone more people of their own skill to compete against instead of splitting it across two tours. So I feel like even though you win 75% of the events you enter, if you are playing against the best of the best week in and week out there's a better competitive value there and more people will likely win since the top 15 or so are close enough to give you a run w/ a good week and the rest of the elite tour aren't out of the equation either with 4 great rounds. 70th place on the Euro tour right now isn't quite at the same level as 70th would be on an elite tour. As for your "what about the other 60 guys" comment - if... 60 can't compete on Elite (which I believe is a false # - probably more like 20ish on a bad day) Currently 230 between PGA/Euro. We just made 170 (230-60) TGCT members enjoyment meter bump up a notch or two. Is your (yours/staff) mind made up already, or is this discussion moot? |
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Post by Doyley on Sept 15, 2016 10:40:22 GMT -5
Now with all that said - this is not set in stone so those of you (like Oswin/staypuft) outside of the Top 50 - you're voice is needed too so please use it. Other suggestions like Oswins WGR bump for PGA are also attractive and would move away from the 1A 1B model - just not as drastically. If we went to a 1 2 3 model (Web --> Euro --> PGA) that is an option too - but it's tough to do anything middle ground between that and the elite tour model. Staying put benefits the 1% and not the 99% (am I doing that right USA?) EDIT - Bob you type faster than me |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2016 10:42:51 GMT -5
Despite not liking the Elite tour model, I still have input of how it could be setup.
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I thought the aim of TGCT was to mimic the real tours as much as possible. Following that idea they have gotten thousands of people to play on here.
