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Post by mde8965 on Aug 31, 2016 11:48:26 GMT -5
Something about a vector right? Anyway, I assume the 1.06 factor changes based on wind speed for diagonal winds (lower for lower speeds and higher for higher speeds). Regardless of how I get there, the 1/1 ratio that I use on diagonal winds does not appear too far off. But I have noticed I usually still am a little short, especially on double digit winds... D.O. I really appreciate your willingness to indulge me in this conversation. I do not mean to de-rail your thread though. I may post back again after I have looked at your videos... Thanks again... yaters - I actually do play TGC with a calculator. I am just too old (and dumb) to do the math in my head (distance plus/minus wind comp minus roll-out). Also use it to determine loft. 186yd target landing/195yd iron = % for loft... And I still play my rounds in 30 minutes... I actually wonder how many people that do not use paper charts use a calculator...
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Post by DoubtfulObelisk on Aug 31, 2016 11:50:29 GMT -5
Ummm....I think I will just go with approximations and feel. Otherwise it will take me 3 hours to play a round with a calculator. Lol. That's what I almost always do, when it comes down to it. You've seen me play a lot, so you know how quickly I play. At best, I just kinda fudge the numbers in my mind, do some quick mental math, and go. But this is more or less my general thought process. If anyone finds it helpful, then good for them.
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Post by DoubtfulObelisk on Aug 31, 2016 11:56:57 GMT -5
Something about a vector right? Anyway, I assume the 1.06 factor changes based on wind speed for diagonal winds (lower for lower speeds and higher for higher speeds). Regardless of how I get there, the 1/1 ratio that I sue on diagonal winds does not appear too far off. But I have noticed I usually still am a little short, especially on double digit winds... D.O. I really appreciate your willingness to indulge me in this conversation. I do not mean to de-rail your thread though. I may post back again after I have looked at your videos... Thanks again... yaters - I actually do play TGC with a calculator. I am just too old (and dumb) to do the math in my head (distance plus/minus wind comp minus roll-out). Also use it to determine loft. 186yd target landing/195yd iron = % for loft... And I still play my rounds in 30 minutes... I actually wonder how many people that do not use paper charts use a calculator... An understanding of vectors is helpful, IMO. With the higher winds (13 or above, let's say), it probably is closer to 1.2, maybe even higher. No problem, hope it helps. Don't worry about "derailing" the thread; this has been an interesting conversation that will likely help some people. That's what matters. Hope you enjoy the videos.
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Post by jarednich on Aug 31, 2016 12:28:03 GMT -5
Ummm....I think I will just go with approximations and feel. Otherwise it will take me 3 hours to play a round with a calculator. All of the calculations boil down to how far you want to hit the ball. You might need a calculator at first, but after awhile it becomes easier to do in your head on the fly. 161 yards, 11 feet downhill, 10 MPH headwind, 7 yards of roll out. 161-4+15-7=165, which translates to lofting a 170 about a third of a bar. The hard part for me is less about the wind and more about the roll out. If I was better at that, I'd be inside 8 feet way more often.
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Post by mde8965 on Aug 31, 2016 13:20:55 GMT -5
Ummm....I think I will just go with approximations and feel. Otherwise it will take me 3 hours to play a round with a calculator. All of the calculations boil down to how far you want to hit the ball. You might need a calculator at first, but after awhile it becomes easier to do in your head on the fly. 161 yards, 11 feet downhill, 10 MPH headwind, 7 yards of roll out. 161-4+15-7=165, which translates to lofting a 170 about a third of a bar. The hard part for me is less about the wind and more about the roll out. If I was better at that, I'd be inside 8 feet way more often. So you are saying for a direct headwind of 10mph you are only going to compensate 15yds with a 5i shot? I would think you would come up way short... Maybe I am wrong (probably am)... But direct headwinds, on woods, if not de-lofting, then I usually compensate about 2.2 or 2.3x wind speed if lofting 1 bar. For 2-4iron I am usually right around 2x maybe a yard or 2 added if lofting above 1/2 bar. For 5-9i I am around 1.75-1.9x depending on loft, for PW I am 1.5x or so (unless downhill then more) and for the others (LW and SW) maybe 1.2-1.4 or slightly less... I have always struggled with this, and none of the posted charts seem to work exactly for me. The numbers I use I developed by using a practice green and hitting a ton of shots and modified over time from trial and error. But I still have those three or four shots a game where I think I did all the calculations right and I end up either 3 yards short of target landing or 3 yards over that make me scratch my head...
Somebody needs to develop an Alexa skill (Alexa caddy skill), so we can say..."Alexa...ask golf calculator what shot to hit if I have 166yds to the pin, 8 mile headwind at 5 o'clock, with the green downhill 9ft and medium/firm greens sloped toward the pin".
And she answers something like "Your target should be 186yds allowing for wind, elevation and rollout. Assuming you have 17yds of green between you and the pin, you should hit a 5i de-lofted by 3% or a 4i lofted to 95%. If you have less than 17yds between you and the pin you might try a 2i lofted just over 90%".
Patent that, and I bet there would be loads of folks around TGC and HB forums that would pay dearly...
LOL
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Post by digsb on Aug 31, 2016 14:06:36 GMT -5
Somebody needs to develop an Alexa skill (Alexa caddy skill), so we can say..."Alexa...ask golf calculator what shot to hit if I have 166yds to the pin, 8 mile headwind at 5 o'clock, with the green downhill 9ft and medium/firm greens sloped toward the pin".
And she answers something like "Your target should be 186yds allowing for wind, elevation and rollout. Assuming you have 17yds of green between you and the pin, you should hit a 5i de-lofted by 3% or a 4i lofted to 95%. If you have less than 17yds between you and the pin you might try a 2i lofted just over 90%".
Patent that, and I bet there would be loads of folks around TGC and HB forums that would pay dearly...
LOL
"Alexa I'm 6 feet away on 182 speed green sloping quickly from left to right suggestions please." "3 wood off the turf sir and aim for that mountain over yonder as you don't have a chance" "Thanks again Alexa" sign me up now please.
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Post by ErixonStone on Sept 1, 2016 9:46:58 GMT -5
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Post by DoubtfulObelisk on Sept 1, 2016 10:05:24 GMT -5
Already seen it, but thanks for the heads-up.
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Post by csabo17 on Sept 1, 2016 10:25:02 GMT -5
Yes, take both into account, so you'd need to 1) aim quite a bit left and 2) add some yardage to your shot. Unfortunately, my technique for dealing with crosswinds is simply to eyeball it, which generally works well for me but is rather hard to teach. Some players like using Doyley's click method, and others like to draw and fade the ball to counteract the wind. Perhaps there's some other method I'm forgetting, but those seem to be the main two.
Hey D.O. Thanks for the reply. Say you have a direct cross wind of 10mph. For me I add maybe 2-3 yards to my calculated distance to compensate, then use the shot shaper to add about 9/10th's of one box fade or draw depending on which way the wind is blowing. For a 4:30 wind at 10mph, I would add roughly 10-12 yds to my calculated distance, and use the shot shaper just under 1/2 box fade to compensate.
If the wind is under 5, then I do not really compensate at all distance wise for a direct cross wind (maybe 1yd) and for a 4:30 5mph wind would just round to adding 5yds to the distance... and for the aim I would just aim to the left about 2-3 yards from the landing point... (don't use fade/draw for 5mph and under)....
Going by your description, it sounds like you initial advice pretty much coincides distance wise. But it sounds like you use the fade/draw less than I do (for wind compensation)... which I will try as you are a hole lot better at this game than I am or probably ever will be...
Good discussion, and it is great that one of the better players in this game is willing to share tips/tricks and make videos to help others. Good Karma... Wasnt good karma for boom!! Lol
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Post by ATLdust on Sept 1, 2016 21:55:14 GMT -5
My brain hurts
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Post by canthitstraight on Sept 2, 2016 1:10:58 GMT -5
yaters , yes, I'd say I rely on feel a decent amount. 50% seems quite a bit too low for diagonal winds. *math alert* The absolute value of sine and cosine of any angle that is [(2k+1)*pi] / 4 will be 1/2 times root 2, or about .707. So you would expect each component to have an effect of about 71% of the wind strength. I bumped that up to 75% for the sake of convenience and because it seems that people underestimate the wind more than they overestimate it. This post makes me happy. Keep up the good work Griffin.
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Post by canthitstraight on Sept 2, 2016 1:18:05 GMT -5
Something about a vector right? Anyway, I assume the 1.06 factor changes based on wind speed for diagonal winds (lower for lower speeds and higher for higher speeds). Regardless of how I get there, the 1/1 ratio that I use on diagonal winds does not appear too far off. But I have noticed I usually still am a little short, especially on double digit winds... D.O. I really appreciate your willingness to indulge me in this conversation. I do not mean to de-rail your thread though. I may post back again after I have looked at your videos... Thanks again... yaters - I actually do play TGC with a calculator. I am just too old (and dumb) to do the math in my head (distance plus/minus wind comp minus roll-out). Also use it to determine loft. 186yd target landing/195yd iron = % for loft... And I still play my rounds in 30 minutes... I actually wonder how many people that do not use paper charts use a calculator... For the uninitiated: DO is one of the most accurate players out there, even playing at full speed. He's raked in at least a handful of wins on the Speed Golf tournament over two seasons. Some of his wins are in the sub 14 or 15 minute range. I've won it just one time when the field was a paltry dozen or so and I don't think I broke 15. Fuzion (Matt Lazell) runs the tour when he's not too busy (been off-season for about 6 weeks and I miss it dearly).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2016 10:44:28 GMT -5
Some people can just do maths in their head very quickly and that is something I can do but not everyone can.
Experience with the game helps im sure and after playing hundreds of rounds it will become second nature and you won't have to think as much.
Sometimes I think people spend too long over shots. Moving the camera, checking their landing spot, checking again again and again and by the time they have gone over the same number it has been 2 or 3 minutes....
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Post by DoubtfulObelisk on Sept 2, 2016 10:51:41 GMT -5
Some people can just do maths in their head very quickly and that is something I can do but not everyone can. Experience with the game helps im sure and after playing hundreds of rounds it will become second nature and you won't have to think as much. Sometimes I think people spend too long over shots. Moving the camera, checking their landing spot, checking again again and again and by the time they have gone over the same number it has been 2 or 3 minutes.... All excellent points, Daniel. I feel the same way about your last paragraph: part of the reason I usually try to play quickly is to prevent myself from second-guessing the shot. It probably wouldn't work for everyone, but I think it's a viable strategy that people should at least try once or twice.
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Post by mde8965 on Sept 2, 2016 11:23:44 GMT -5
Hey Griffin (D.O.).
I attempted to watch your videos last night, but with the tropical storm impacting Florida, I got through about 3/4 of the first one and the power went out. So far though, I like and will be watching both a couple times through this weekend. Thanks.
Question. I believe you are on PC. Not sure if you use an XB1 or PS4 controller. But when one talks about being accurate, I would think that most players, even those that know the maths involved, the accuracy thing is hindered by not being able to get straight swings within the cone on a regular basis.
If you were asked, what tips would you give to someone to help them be more accurate with hitting straight(er) shots? Is there a technique that works for you (how you hold your tongue (LOL) looking at the controller, the screen, pull back and hold and hit a mark going forward on the controller...or nice even back and forth, etc...)?
I use a PS4 controller (stock) on PC, no software, and for the most part, as long as I am nice and steady with the backswing looking at the screen and a nice steady but faster paced forward swing when the golfer gets to the peak of backswing works best for me. but sure enough, I will have that stupid slice thing going on at every possible worst time.
To me, besides being good at putting, being able to hit pretty straight and stay in that cone even when lofting, are the two most important, and frustrating elements to this game...
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