Optional Monthly Or Yearly Q School

[Deleted]

I'm just tossing this out there. I know there is no chance in hell that this will ever happen but given the situation that I find myself in, one that I honestly don't feel is fair, I figure what the hell. I'll run this up the flag pole and see who salutes it.

I made it into Web on like week 35 or 36. Not sure. But it was darn late in the season. If you look at the number of tournaments I've played since getting my card, including that week, I've played in 7 tournaments. When this week ends, it will be 8.

My finishes haven't been horrible. I've made about half my cuts including a T22. If you were to average out my performance so far over the course of an entire season, I'd easily be in the top 140 money earners. But because I got my card so late, that's not happening and I'm going to have to play in the CC event to be able to try to keep my card.

So this is what I propose.

Either an optional monthly or at least yearly Q School. So players, like me, who lost their Web card because of late entry, can qualify by playing Q School.

But I would make punishment for bad performance or deciding not to post your scores (because you did poorly) extremely severe.

In order for this to work, the player would have to register FIRST. After registration, TGCT would then check to make sure that player didn't already play their rounds. If it turns out they did, punishment will follow. I'll get to that later.

If registration is legit, then they play Q School.

Whatever score they finish with, THAT'S where they are placed EVEN if they end up getting demoted more than they expected. So let's say I play and end up only qualifying for CC-B. That's where I go to. So there is a risk the player takes if they decide to do this.

In the case of cheating, playing first and then registering because they got their good score, punishment is a 6 month ban. No exceptions.

For fun, I decided to play Q School for August. Obviously, this doesn't count. But I am 25 under through 3 rounds and actually on my way to, theoretically, earning my PGA card. At the very worst, I should be able to retain my Web card.

But as things stand right now, my retention of my Web card is based on more than just what I score on the course. It also depends on what all the competition does as well. It shouldn't be more difficult for somebody to retain their Web card than earning it through Q School, which is hard enough. But it is.

Like I said, no way in hell does this ever even get considered. I just wish I knew then (when I first did Q School) what I know now. I would have waited until the start of the season to do my Q School, making sure I practiced long and hard beforehand, and I would have probably been in Web for the entire season and this would be a non issue.

Instead, because of a money earned requirement, which severely punishes players who were just unfortunate enough to start the season late or make it up to a tier late, When the next season begins, I'll probably have to start this process all over again.

The only saving grace is, if what I'm shooting now in Q School is truly representative of my skill level, I'll be back in Web pretty soon and won't have to go through this again.

It's just disheartening after working so hard to get here only to find out that I got here too late.

And that's all I have to say on the subject.

I am now prepared to take all the flaming that's going to come my way.

[warrior009]

The whole playoff thing is simple. Play well, earn a card. Play poorly, well too bad and time to work on your game.

The average money list idea wouldn't work because why would it be fair for somebody that was on a tour all year, played decently, have their playoff spot taken by a lower tour player that just got promoted and threw together one top 25 week. Players that earned their card early, earn the right to accrue money through the entire year. In your case, you've been playing since October. There's been plenty of time to play well enough to earn a higher card and gain the money list advantage of being on a tour quicker.

A yearly q-school defeats the whole purpose of the regular season and sponsors exemptions system. Players should be required to play well for a continued period of time in order to gain higher status. Not just play well in a 6 round event, but play well for 4 rounds in a CC event, 4 rounds in a Web event and at least 2 rounds on PGA/Euro.

[Deleted]

Aug 4, 2016 21:30:09 GMT -5 warrior009 said:

The whole playoff thing is simple. Play well, earn a card. Play poorly, well too bad and time to work on your game.

The average money list idea wouldn't work because why would it be fair for somebody that was on a tour all year, played decently, have their playoff spot taken by a lower tour player that just got promoted and threw together one top 25 week. Players that earned their card early, earn the right to accrue money through the entire year. In your case, you've been playing since October. There's been plenty of time to play well enough to earn a higher card and gain the money list advantage of being on a tour quicker.

A yearly q-school defeats the whole purpose of the regular season and sponsors exemptions system. Players should be required to play well for a continued period of time in order to gain higher status. Not just play well in a 6 round event, but play well for 4 rounds in a CC event, 4 rounds in a Web event and at least 2 rounds on PGA/Euro.

I wasn't going to respond to this but there are so many holes in your argument that I really had no choice.

First of all, play well, earn card, play poorly, work on your game?

How many pros (and I can name a ton) have simply had bad tourneys? What, Phil and Tiger never had a bad tourney? Having a bad event doesn't necessarily mean you have to work on your game. So please, let's just toss that right out the window because anybody can have a bad tourney.

As for the whole "guys earned the right to accumulate money through the year if they got in early" how many guys either have one good week and stink up the rest of the year OR finish near the bottom of the top 70 week after week but have simply played long enough to sneak into the top 140. Doesn't make them a better golfer than me in the least. So that argument is hogwash as well.

It all comes down to this. I am being penalized because I just happened to make Web 8 weeks ago and for no other reason. My weekly results, on average, are just as good as players who are barely in the top 140 who have been here all or most of the year.

I get that this is how it works in real life (make PGA last week of the year and you're screwed) but that doesn't make it any more fair in my opinion.

Like I said, I don't expect anything to change and am already prepared to fight my way back up from CC-A next season. I just think it stinks and nothing anybody says is going to change how I feel about the system.

[Lowenberger]

Aug 4, 2016 21:42:20 GMT -5 @wagtunes said:

Aug 4, 2016 21:30:09 GMT -5 warrior009 said:

The whole playoff thing is simple. Play well, earn a card. Play poorly, well too bad and time to work on your game.

The average money list idea wouldn't work because why would it be fair for somebody that was on a tour all year, played decently, have their playoff spot taken by a lower tour player that just got promoted and threw together one top 25 week. Players that earned their card early, earn the right to accrue money through the entire year. In your case, you've been playing since October. There's been plenty of time to play well enough to earn a higher card and gain the money list advantage of being on a tour quicker.

A yearly q-school defeats the whole purpose of the regular season and sponsors exemptions system. Players should be required to play well for a continued period of time in order to gain higher status. Not just play well in a 6 round event, but play well for 4 rounds in a CC event, 4 rounds in a Web event and at least 2 rounds on PGA/Euro.

I wasn't going to respond to this but there are so many holes in your argument that I really had no choice.

First of all, play well, earn card, play poorly, work on your game?

How many pros (and I can name a ton) have simply had bad tourneys? What, Phil and Tiger never had a bad tourney? Having a bad event doesn't necessarily mean you have to work on your game. So please, let's just toss that right out the window because anybody can have a bad tourney.

As for the whole "guys earned the right to accumulate money through the year if they got in early" how many guys either have one good week and stink up the rest of the year OR finish near the bottom of the top 70 week after week but have simply played long enough to sneak into the top 140. Doesn't make them a better golfer than me in the least. So that argument is hogwash as well.

It all comes down to this. I am being penalized because I just happened to make Web 8 weeks ago and for no other reason. My weekly results, on average, are just as good as players who are barely in the top 140 who have been here all or most of the year.

I get that this is how it works in real life (make PGA last week of the year and you're screwed) but that doesn't make it any more fair in my opinion.

Like I said, I don't expect anything to change and am already prepared to fight my way back up from CC-A next season. I just think it stinks and nothing anybody says is going to change how I feel about the system.

If your good enough to play in web, you wouldn't be in cc-a long anyway. Not a big deal

[ErixonStone]

Wags, you're being penalized for toiling in CC-E for half the season. That has to count for something. Your game only recently improved to the point where you're competitive in the top tours.

In the meantime, if you play well enough on the Web.com tour, you can earn a sponsor's exemption and try to earn a PGA or Euro tour card. If you earned one of those, you'd be guaranteed to start next season in Web.com with a chance - through the Web.com tour finals - to earn a PGA or Euro card.

Besides, isn't the Challenge Circuit playoffs similar in nature to an end-of-season Q-School event? If you were good enough to compete on Web.com, you should be good enough to earn a Web.com card via the Challenge Circuit playoffs, should you not qualify for the Web.com finals.

You still have a few weeks to make your way up the ranks in Web.com. A lot of players on the Web.com money list are no longer on that tour. You might not be all that far behind.

[Deleted]

Defend your card if you have to. If you had never moved up to Web.com you would still be in the same spot (I think) where you would be competing for a Web card from CC-X.

[garyg]

Aug 4, 2016 15:54:20 GMT -5 @wagtunes said:

The only saving grace is, if what I'm shooting now in Q School is truly representative of my skill level, I'll be back in Web pretty soon and won't have to go through this again.

That's the only part of your message you should be focusing on. You're in Web already so if you were good enough to get promoted then you'll get back into Web easily enough anyway.

The playoff isn't even based off one tournament, it's based off four. To me that pretty much rules out an average player being lucky with one good tournament, or a great player being unlucky with one bad tournament. The skills players have will be shown over the course of four tournaments, with the best at the top and the worst at the bottom, leaving those currently in Web with a very high chance of getting straight back into Web. If a Web player doesn't get back into Web despite having four tournaments to show they deserve it then, lets face it, they probably don't belong on that tour to begin with.

No offence but I don't read many different threads on this forum yet I've still seen you complaining about this in at least 3 or 4 different threads. It's how things are done, and I believe someone has previously stated it's how things are done in real life too so, as harsh as it may seem, either accept it or simply don't take part anymore.

[unclefester75]

@wagtunes
Are you making a self-fulfilling prophecy out of this?

Playoffs are coming up.  You control your destiny.  Play well and move on. 

[Deleted]

I want to thank everybody for the replies.

Not that any of this means anything at all, because it doesn't, here's what I got out of this little experiment.

First off, I finished Q School for August. Shot 46 under par. Lost to Jimmy Kuo by only 16 strokes over the 6 rounds. Considering he's like just outside of the top 100 WGR, I don't think that's too shabby. Regardless, I "technically" would have earned my PGA card.

Now what follows are my thoughts on what I just said.

Falling back on my experience in Web, and with the game in general, my finish has me seriously questioning the validity of Q School in the first place.

My time in Web has been, for the most part, pretty so-so. My best was a T22. I've missed 4 out of my 8 cuts. That's certainly not PGA caliber, in my opinion. And yet, had I done Q School, as a first time sign up, that's where I would have been placed, ultimately to miss pretty much every cut and be begging to be sent down to Web.

What I find as an absolutely glaring omission in Q School is at least one round on firm greens. This condition is such a staple of not only PGA but Web setups that I don't see how you can possibly assess a person's skill without it.

It is because of this that I wonder just how competitive I really am and will be come time to enter the CC playoffs. There are a lot of great golfers in CC-A, many of whom clean my clocks week after week when I play the CC tour for fun. I don't think I've made the exemption line one week since being promoted to Web.

And yet, there it is, 46 under, supposedly good enough to play in the PGA, let alone Web.

So as much as I'd like to fall back on this experience as a confidence booster when I hit the playoffs at the end of the year, I am, if anything, even more befuddled than I was before I began this journey.

On the plus side, eventually the playoffs will come and, one way or another, this will all be over and done with and I can just get on with playing golf.

Wherever that may end up being.

[titaneddie]

Aug 5, 2016 13:39:50 GMT -5 @wagtunes said:

I want to thank everybody for the replies.

Not that any of this means anything at all, because it doesn't, here's what I got out of this little experiment.

First off, I finished Q School for August. Shot 46 under par. Lost to Jimmy Kuo by only 16 strokes over the 6 rounds. Considering he's like just outside of the top 100 WGR, I don't think that's too shabby. Regardless, I "technically" would have earned my PGA card.

Now what follows are my thoughts on what I just said.

Falling back on my experience in Web, and with the game in general, my finish has me seriously questioning the validity of Q School in the first place.

My time in Web has been, for the most part, pretty so-so. My best was a T22. I've missed 4 out of my 8 cuts. That's certainly not PGA caliber, in my opinion. And yet, had I done Q School, as a first time sign up, that's where I would have been placed, ultimately to miss pretty much every cut and be begging to be sent down to Web.

What I find as an absolutely glaring omission in Q School is at least one round on firm greens. This condition is such a staple of not only PGA but Web setups that I don't see how you can possibly assess a person's skill without it.

It is because of this that I wonder just how competitive I really am and will be come time to enter the CC playoffs. There are a lot of great golfers in CC-A, many of whom clean my clocks week after week when I play the CC tour for fun. I don't think I've made the exemption line one week since being promoted to Web.

And yet, there it is, 46 under, supposedly good enough to play in the PGA, let alone Web.

So as much as I'd like to fall back on this experience as a confidence booster when I hit the playoffs at the end of the year, I am, if anything, even more befuddled than I was before I began this journey.

On the plus side, eventually the playoffs will come and, one way or another, this will all be over and done with and I can just get on with playing golf.

Wherever that may end up being.

This Q school argument doesn't seem valid to me. Most people doing Q school are more than likely somewhat new to the game and haven't played 8 months on tour. So yeah, you're way better at it now...but when you first did it you were significantly worse. So I think its used as kind of barometer for people NEW to the tour and maybe the game, who probably don't really know what to expect, not people who've put as much time into the game as you have now.

[Deleted]

Aug 5, 2016 18:37:11 GMT -5 titaneddie said:

Aug 5, 2016 13:39:50 GMT -5 @wagtunes said:

I want to thank everybody for the replies.

Not that any of this means anything at all, because it doesn't, here's what I got out of this little experiment.

First off, I finished Q School for August. Shot 46 under par. Lost to Jimmy Kuo by only 16 strokes over the 6 rounds. Considering he's like just outside of the top 100 WGR, I don't think that's too shabby. Regardless, I "technically" would have earned my PGA card.

Now what follows are my thoughts on what I just said.

Falling back on my experience in Web, and with the game in general, my finish has me seriously questioning the validity of Q School in the first place.

My time in Web has been, for the most part, pretty so-so. My best was a T22. I've missed 4 out of my 8 cuts. That's certainly not PGA caliber, in my opinion. And yet, had I done Q School, as a first time sign up, that's where I would have been placed, ultimately to miss pretty much every cut and be begging to be sent down to Web.

What I find as an absolutely glaring omission in Q School is at least one round on firm greens. This condition is such a staple of not only PGA but Web setups that I don't see how you can possibly assess a person's skill without it.

It is because of this that I wonder just how competitive I really am and will be come time to enter the CC playoffs. There are a lot of great golfers in CC-A, many of whom clean my clocks week after week when I play the CC tour for fun. I don't think I've made the exemption line one week since being promoted to Web.

And yet, there it is, 46 under, supposedly good enough to play in the PGA, let alone Web.

So as much as I'd like to fall back on this experience as a confidence booster when I hit the playoffs at the end of the year, I am, if anything, even more befuddled than I was before I began this journey.

On the plus side, eventually the playoffs will come and, one way or another, this will all be over and done with and I can just get on with playing golf.

Wherever that may end up being.

This Q school argument doesn't seem valid to me. Most people doing Q school are more than likely somewhat new to the game and haven't played 8 months on tour. So yeah, you're way better at it now...but when you first did it you were significantly worse. So I think its used as kind of barometer for people NEW to the tour and maybe the game, who probably don't really know what to expect, not people who've put as much time into the game as you have now.

Except that doesn't change the results. At 46 under, I would be placed in the PGA, where I don't belong at all.

So what you are in effect saying is that Q School, for those who haven't played the game, is fine but for everybody else is invalid. If that is true, then how do you explain people who play Q School for the first time  and get placed in Web or PGA? And yes, it does happen.

So either Q School is valid or it's not. It can't be both.

[titaneddie]

Well obviously there are the exceptions, but all I'm saying is that I'm willing to bet the vast majority of people who complete q school upon entry don't get their PGA card. I think most people make vast improvements to their game once they join the tour and find enjoyment in it. It gives them a reason to really try and get better. Putting the really really tough courses in q school might turn off alot of inexperienced golfers to joining the tour.

I mean I'm just guessing that's reason behind the course selection. So if someone happens to get their PGA card out of it, so be it. You get one shot and they made it. Then they'll find out if they can hang.

[Doyley]

If you can shoot 46-under at Q-School you can hang with the pros of either the PGA and Euro tour. Maybe not the elite, but definitely be enjoying the cutline drama.

[titaneddie]

Aug 5, 2016 21:36:18 GMT -5 Doyley said:

If you can shoot 46-under at Q-School you can hang with the pros of either the PGA and Euro tour. Maybe not the elite, but definitely be enjoying the cutline drama.

Doyley, out of curiosity what percent of people actually get a PGA card out of it?

[Doyley]

Aug 5, 2016 21:39:01 GMT -5 titaneddie said:

Aug 5, 2016 21:36:18 GMT -5 Doyley said:

If you can shoot 46-under at Q-School you can hang with the pros of either the PGA and Euro tour. Maybe not the elite, but definitely be enjoying the cutline drama.

Doyley, out of curiosity what percent of people actually get a PGA card out of it?

Not sure the numbers - but it's not high