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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 8:22:30 GMT -5
But let me ask you this Duke: IRL if you have an in between distance and choose to take something off more club that's generally a "safer" shot than getting after less club. So if at any point you choose to play it safe you can choose the easier shot difficulty. But if you want to step on one then you bring more possibilities to miss-hit into play...but it's your choice from shot to shot. Wouldn't that mirror real golf better than locking in a swing prior to the round? Then make misses within the cone more penal and look for better tempo throughout the shot and, voila. Just my opinions. But golf doesnt really work like that?
Within the realm of reasonable golf shots - Hitting a soft shot versus stepping on it is more about spin control than anything else and "stock" is easier to hit consistently than either of those.
Golf is all about executing a conservative play in an agressive fashion. Most people (including me) do the opposite all to often.
Robert, that last statement sounds very interesting. Could you elaborate? I'm not a golfer.
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Post by HeMan1202 on Jun 15, 2016 8:46:37 GMT -5
So I will just ask this and leave it alone.
Outside of the off the tee and maybe on some second shots into par 5's, why would anyone ever choose a more difficult swing option on any other shot.
That is my point. Every shot should be difficult to pull off, not just the ones you choose. I can't think of any instance that someone would choose a difficult swing for an iron shot because another iron on easy can get you where you want to go.
To me it can't be shot to shot. Either you choose to play your round on easy, medium, or difficult. Pro tours should always be difficult. Other tours can choose.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 9:00:03 GMT -5
So I will just ask this and leave it alone. Outside of the off the tee and maybe on some second shots into par 5's, why would anyone ever choose a more difficult swing option on any other shot. That is my point. Every shot should be difficult to pull off, not just the ones you choose. I can't think of any instance that someone would choose a difficult swing for an iron shot because another iron on easy can get you where you want to go. To me it can't be shot to shot. Either you choose to play your round on easy, medium, or difficult. Pro tours should always be difficult. Other tours can choose. Well that's just it. Off the tee, especially on long par 4s, that's the only time I'd need more distance than what the easy setting allows me. So I'm actually stuck between a rock and a hard place. If I choose the hard option, sure, my tee shots go farther, at the risk of landing in the rough, but then I'm locked into this more difficult setting for every other shot which in the long run is going to negate any advantage I've gained from my tee shot. If I choose the easy option, I'm essentially giving up any chance of birdie, or even par, on the long par 4s. On most courses, I won't care. I'll play easy or maybe medium and that'll be more than good enough. But on some courses (I've played plenty of them here) I'm going to want that extra distance on my tee shot without having to pay the penalty for it on every other shot I make in the game. Ultimately, this is all out of our hands anyway. It's all going to come down to two things. 1) How the software implements the difficulty setting (per round or shot) 2) How TGCT sets up each round, provided they're even able to force a certain difficulty setting. As of right now, I don't even think that's possible with TGC 1. So we'll just have to see how this plays out. Either way, whatever happens, I'll still be playing on TGC Tours.
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Post by unclefester75 on Jun 15, 2016 9:03:32 GMT -5
So I will just ask this and leave it alone. Outside of the off the tee and maybe on some second shots into par 5's, why would anyone ever choose a more difficult swing option on any other shot. That is my point. Every shot should be difficult to pull off, not just the ones you choose. I can't think of any instance that someone would choose a difficult swing for an iron shot because another iron on easy can get you where you want to go. To me it can't be shot to shot. Either you choose to play your round on easy, medium, or difficult. Pro tours should always be difficult. Other tours can choose. So, in real life, the advantage to swinging harder on short shots is the generated spin. Whether this is for shot shaping or bunker shots and what not.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 9:05:01 GMT -5
Safe to say, I'll be disappointed if the tempo part they mentioned just means that we can't pause at the top anymore. It needs to be more detailed. I'd also like the swing to be locked in a tournament. The yardage isn't that big of a deal. I just want shots that are a little offline on the stick to actually make a bigger difference in the result of the ball flight. Any sort of noticeable curve at the top should be enough to nearly miss a fairway or green on one side. I like what you say but then they actually need to make it a disadvantage when you"Short Side" yourself instead of the advantage that it currently is. I think the randomization of rough should be greater and sand for that matter too, make it 40 to 95% then youd have to play a more conservative shot instead of dialing a distance. I'm sure pros in the USOpen wont land in the rough, look at the lie and say "Yep, this is going to come out at 73 to 88% of what I usually hit".
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Post by anquila1978 on Jun 15, 2016 9:16:02 GMT -5
So I will just ask this and leave it alone. Outside of the off the tee and maybe on some second shots into par 5's, why would anyone ever choose a more difficult swing option on any other shot. That is my point. Every shot should be difficult to pull off, not just the ones you choose. I can't think of any instance that someone would choose a difficult swing for an iron shot because another iron on easy can get you where you want to go. To me it can't be shot to shot. Either you choose to play your round on easy, medium, or difficult. Pro tours should always be difficult. Other tours can choose. Well that's just it. Off the tee, especially on long par 4s, that's the only time I'd need more distance than what the easy setting allows me. So I'm actually stuck between a rock and a hard place. If I choose the hard option, sure, my tee shots go farther, at the risk of landing in the rough, but then I'm locked into this more difficult setting for every other shot which in the long run is going to negate any advantage I've gained from my tee shot. If I choose the easy option, I'm essentially giving up any chance of birdie, or even par, on the long par 4s. On most courses, I won't care. I'll play easy or maybe medium and that'll be more than good enough. But on some courses (I've played plenty of them here) I'm going to want that extra distance on my tee shot without having to pay the penalty for it on every other shot I make in the game. Ultimately, this is all out of our hands anyway. It's all going to come down to two things. 1) How the software implements the difficulty setting (per round or shot) 2) How TGCT sets up each round, provided they're even able to force a certain difficulty setting. As of right now, I don't even think that's possible with TGC 1. So we'll just have to see how this plays out. Either way, whatever happens, I'll still be playing on TGC Tours. I don't get the point of actually changing the swing mechanism if what you are suggesting is possible. For Instance, I opt for most difficult swing for distance off the tee : 3 results possible, 1.Fairway: with a shorter second shot which given the above means everyone then picks easist swing and we are back to dart golf 2.Rough: Extra distance gained, yes a trickier shot but the above means negating the actual punishment of missing the fairway 3:Bunker: as above with rough It is a video game and execution of the shot should not be impossible but it should not be allowed to get out of trouble by simply selecting the easier swing method, it just makes the game pointless In essence it comes down to you want to compete at the top then you have to play at the top (hardest) level
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 9:26:46 GMT -5
6 pages of this since I last read it. Not going to read it.. Game is 6 months+ off.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 9:47:25 GMT -5
Well that's just it. Off the tee, especially on long par 4s, that's the only time I'd need more distance than what the easy setting allows me. So I'm actually stuck between a rock and a hard place. If I choose the hard option, sure, my tee shots go farther, at the risk of landing in the rough, but then I'm locked into this more difficult setting for every other shot which in the long run is going to negate any advantage I've gained from my tee shot. If I choose the easy option, I'm essentially giving up any chance of birdie, or even par, on the long par 4s. On most courses, I won't care. I'll play easy or maybe medium and that'll be more than good enough. But on some courses (I've played plenty of them here) I'm going to want that extra distance on my tee shot without having to pay the penalty for it on every other shot I make in the game. Ultimately, this is all out of our hands anyway. It's all going to come down to two things. 1) How the software implements the difficulty setting (per round or shot) 2) How TGCT sets up each round, provided they're even able to force a certain difficulty setting. As of right now, I don't even think that's possible with TGC 1. So we'll just have to see how this plays out. Either way, whatever happens, I'll still be playing on TGC Tours. I don't get the point of actually changing the swing mechanism if what you are suggesting is possible. For Instance, I opt for most difficult swing for distance off the tee : 3 results possible, 1.Fairway: with a shorter second shot which given the above means everyone then picks easist swing and we are back to dart golf 2.Rough: Extra distance gained, yes a trickier shot but the above means negating the actual punishment of missing the fairway 3:Bunker: as above with rough It is a video game and execution of the shot should not be impossible but it should not be allowed to get out of trouble by simply selecting the easier swing method, it just makes the game pointless In essence it comes down to you want to compete at the top then you have to play at the top (hardest) level You make a good point but let's take # 2 regardless of what option you use. It's a par 5 of 635 yards. Wind's blowing in at 10 mph. On hard setting, let's say driver distance is 285 yards With roll out, let's say your shot goes 270 yards but you land in the rough. You can now forget about pulling out your 3 wood for your 2nd shot. Best you're doing now is a 3 iron leaving you at least 85 yards from the pin. Probably 90 or more. So going to an easy setting for your 3rd shot doesn't really negate the fact that you blew any chance you had of leaving yourself a nice easy 45 yard pitch to the green for your third shot. Now you have to battle a 10 mph wind with a lofted 9 iron probably. So for this particular hole, I'd rather just use the easy setting, land in the fairway and be able to use my 3 wood on my 2nd shot. In this scenario, you definitely do get punished for using the harder shot even if just off the tee if you miss the fairway. If you make it however, you should be rewarded for the extra distance and be allowed to take an easier 2nd shot. Not that it will matter at this point. I mean how hard a shot from the fairway with an iron are they going to make it? The cone for irons is so wide that even on most difficult, if you're even just half way decent at this game, you can't possibly pull the shot. In fact, I don't remember the last time I pulled a shot with an iron. Point is, there is a penalty. And for long par 4s, if I choose to avoid the possibility of a penalty, I'm screwed. I have no chance using the easy setting. At the very most, difficulty settings should be on a hole by hole basis. If you start a hole on difficult, you can't change to easy mid way through the hole. That would eliminate the problem you pointed out. Now, as far as how possible that will be to program into the software, I don't know. But I think that will be the best sollution and a compromise. You shouldn't be locked into one swing for a whole round.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 10:04:15 GMT -5
It has to be for your whole round, otherwise what's the point? If you select the hard option you get the added distance for every shot but every shot is harder to pull off. If you choose the easy option then every shot is easier to pull off but you lose distance. Balances things out. Let's hope the hard option is HARD and there is a real choice whether you use it or not for the top people.
If CC players are struggling then the course committee should try and pick shorter courses/forward tees for CC events, that way CC players won't get frustrated missing fairways all the time as they can use the easy swing and still compete. Anyone that can use the normal or hard setting fairly successfully on CC will move up quickly to the web but then they better work on other sides of their game like putting and scrambling in order to make the next step up to PGA.
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Post by yaters on Jun 15, 2016 10:32:37 GMT -5
Interesting discussion on locking in a difficulty vs. allowing the option to change each shot. I don't have a strong opinion either way. But I can tell you this, I'll get annoyed if I have to go to the menu and scroll through options to change my swing type on each shot. That would just ruin the flow of the game for me. I would probably end up just sticking with the one that feels best for my game (I'm guessing the middle one - but no idea at this point).
Long ways off, but it will be interesting how all this shakes out.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 10:37:09 GMT -5
Interesting discussion on locking in a difficulty vs. allowing the option to change each shot. I don't have a strong opinion either way. But I can tell you this, I'll get annoyed if I have to go to the menu and scroll through options to change my swing type on each shot. That would just ruin the flow of the game for me. I would probably end up just sticking with the one that feels best for my game (I'm guessing the middle one - but no idea at this point). Long ways off, but it will be interesting how all this shakes out. I agree. If you had to exit out of the game to choose a new setting that would pretty much rule out changing difficulty between shots or even between holes. I would probably just choose medium and live with it. My guess is that medium setting is probably close to what we have now. Of course if tempo is added, even easy won't be as easy as easy is now. Yes, it will be extremely interesting to see what we end up with for a final product.
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Post by ErixonStone on Jun 15, 2016 10:46:01 GMT -5
I think Anthony said the current swing is more like the easy swing in TGC2. If you look closely at the video teaser HB published, the driver had a carry of 240 yards.
But, yeah, courses aimed at newer players using the easy swing will need to be shorter in length.
The more I think about it, the swing type should probably be an option available in your player profile. And for the pro tours, courses should be set up where you would WANT to use the hard setting to get that extra distance (not that you HAVE to, by rule).
And maybe the hard swing helps the ball stop faster to hold firm greens or get close to those tucked pins.
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Post by BillySastard976 on Jun 15, 2016 10:47:05 GMT -5
Well that's just it. Off the tee, especially on long par 4s, that's the only time I'd need more distance than what the easy setting allows me. So I'm actually stuck between a rock and a hard place. If I choose the hard option, sure, my tee shots go farther, at the risk of landing in the rough, but then I'm locked into this more difficult setting for every other shot which in the long run is going to negate any advantage I've gained from my tee shot. If I choose the easy option, I'm essentially giving up any chance of birdie, or even par, on the long par 4s. On most courses, I won't care. I'll play easy or maybe medium and that'll be more than good enough. But on some courses (I've played plenty of them here) I'm going to want that extra distance on my tee shot without having to pay the penalty for it on every other shot I make in the game. Ultimately, this is all out of our hands anyway. It's all going to come down to two things. 1) How the software implements the difficulty setting (per round or shot) 2) How TGCT sets up each round, provided they're even able to force a certain difficulty setting. As of right now, I don't even think that's possible with TGC 1. So we'll just have to see how this plays out. Either way, whatever happens, I'll still be playing on TGC Tours. I don't get the point of actually changing the swing mechanism if what you are suggesting is possible. For Instance, I opt for most difficult swing for distance off the tee : 3 results possible, 1.Fairway: with a shorter second shot which given the above means everyone then picks easist swing and we are back to dart golf 2.Rough: Extra distance gained, yes a trickier shot but the above means negating the actual punishment of missing the fairway 3:Bunker: as above with rough It is a video game and execution of the shot should not be impossible but it should not be allowed to get out of trouble by simply selecting the easier swing method, it just makes the game pointless In essence it comes down to you want to compete at the top then you have to play at the top (hardest) level The swing option could be reduced to only hardest plus hard setting. In other words,if hardest setting is going to be used at all in a round then the option to switch to easy during that round is grayed out. Likewise,if hard is chosen before the round the only option is to go up to hardest,never down to easy. Choosing easy,then hard is an option but not hardest,for certain shots when required. How this would work out in practice very much depends on the courses. I suggest they must be long enough that there is a penalty for choosing easy plus hard - the greens are too far to reach on the par 5's.
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Post by HB_KeithC on Jun 15, 2016 11:24:13 GMT -5
I will jump in very quick to post my experience so far with the new build. Keep in mind that all of this can change as it is probably 6-7+ months away from release! And it most likely will after the closed beta and the feedback that is received from that. I am posting all that I know at this moment so I don't want to make this into a Q&A thread. We will have our live stream on Monday and Anthony will be able to answer way more than I can.
So I have been playing the new build for the last 2-3 weeks. Keep in mind that it is a pre-alpha build so some things aren't working and also will be changed for sure, i.e. the flop shot. The flop is still the same at the moment. Chipping has already been changed. The chip shot goes higher and farther so you can actually use it from 5-6 yards off the green and it will not get slogged up in the rough. The LW chip currently flies 12 yards, so shorter chips will need to be dialed in with touch. There are 3 current swings basically easy, medium and hard.
All clubs, not just driver, are part of this swing. Just listing the driver distance here but all clubs are effected. Easy = 240 yd carry. Medium = 265 yd carry. Hard = 280 yd carry.
I have almost exclusively played on the hard setting as AK would like my feedback on that swing. The tempo element is most felt here of course. Gone are the percentages and replaced by two elements of feedback. Backswing and Follow Through. Each one gives you feedback such as Perfect, too slow, sluggish, too quick, etc. On the hardest swing, you absolutely cannot hold the club at the top. If you don't find the perfect tempo, your shot will go offline alot. Same goes for the cone. If you miss the straight line, you are going offline... alot. Prepare to miss fairways and greens. And I am not talking only when missing the cone. You can easily be in the cone but not a straight line and your shot will be wayward. 3-4 times farther off line that what you see in TGC1.
I was playing a hole that had water on the edge of the right side of the green. I honestly felt myself concentrating harder to get the tempo right and make a straight swing because I knew there was a good chance I was going in the water if I didn't do it. I haven't felt that worry in TGC1.
Here are some stats I have kept playing with the hard swing:
GC at Hunter Meadows (my own course) Score: 74, 64% FIR, 61% GIR Little Brook Manor (2x): both times I shot 63 with 69% FIR and 94% GIR Tobacco Dunes: Shot 70 with 69% FIR and 56% GIR Zewina Golf Club: Shot 77 with 7% FIR and 33% GIR Not sure what the hell happened here. LOL I need to play this course again. I must have been half asleep or something. That's my excuse and I am sticking with it.
Again, please remember this is a pre-alpha build so alot can and probably will change. Do not make your final decisions on the game based on this post. I just wanted to post for you guys what I have experienced so far.
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Post by anquila1978 on Jun 15, 2016 11:27:47 GMT -5
In the end HB will be the arbiters of the swing, I hope that if we choose a setting then there are advantages but also dis-advantages to that choice.
The suggestion you make would work if implanted because if every swing had a choice then might as well just have it as is and the scores at a level that beyond fantasy.
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