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Post by winstond on Feb 6, 2024 21:00:25 GMT -5
October Sky review if someone has the time please OK, I played a few holes and think you should write out a sheet with several key items. 1. Is my first hole a divisive 90 degree bend (frowned upon by the purists and rarely used in real life) where I can hit a partial driver or shortcut the corner and hit it on the green?  2. Do my fairways transition seamlessly onto the green surrounds?  3. Are my next tee boxes a simple/short walk from the previous green  4. Does my tee shot have a good sightline of the hole without un-intentional blindness hiding any hazards?     5. Are my bunkers well sculpted and look authentic?  6. Are my greens; - using a speed set between the default green speeds to give schedulers maximum selection for green speeds? (answer: no, they are at 134/medium) - sculpted to ensure no creases and sharp angles?  7. Are my greens sculpted to ensure if faster green speed is used there is no yellow in the 9 boxes surrounding the pin?   8. Can I see my greens from the middle of the fairway? (un-intentional blindness)  9, Does my land movement look natural?  10. Have I checked all my tee boxes are flat?  11. Have I naturally incorporated additional features into the course to give it a more natural look?  12. Have I ensured that all auto-gen grasses have been removed near the fairway mown surface?  13. Have a used a mixture of different length holes, elevation changes and an interesting routing that provides sightlines of other holes? As my colleagues here have suggested, the art of "self reflection" and "self review" is an art form. So have a play of your course with these 13 things in mind and come back with your answers and let me know if it should be "not approved"/"approved"/"tour worthy"? Hopefully these pointers will help you on your journey to better courses. Best of luck! Appreciate you taking the time to do that. I'll work on improving. As I said it's been a couple years since I've even tried. As an aside, is it the whole green you are supposed to see or is the stick all that is needed. |
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Post by sandgroper on Feb 6, 2024 22:00:12 GMT -5
Ideally at least a chunk of green where the pin is.
Sometimes - as an example a punchbowl green - it may be blind, but this would be intentional and a visual aid would be present to give the player an idea of where the pin is.
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Post by aero5k on Feb 11, 2024 16:39:49 GMT -5
Can anyone break down the Links at Anvil Rock "Not approved" decision. Thanks!
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Post by trailducker on Feb 11, 2024 17:26:39 GMT -5
Can anyone break down the Links at Anvil Rock "Not approved" decision. Thanks! The first question, and this will come off condescending but it's asked because this is what happens countless times, did you watch the video on the original post of this thread (multiple times) and still miss what missed the boat? Or are you just asking so you don't have to watch the video? |
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Post by aero5k on Feb 11, 2024 19:44:14 GMT -5
Yeah, I've watched the video a few times, probably more than I'd like to admit. I still am not seeing what missed the boat. Just looking for what I can do to get my next course approved.
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Post by HoneyBadgerHacker on Feb 11, 2024 19:50:57 GMT -5
Yeah, I've watched the video a few times, probably more than I'd like to admit. I still am not seeing what missed the boat. Just looking for what I can do to get my next course approved. Can you see your hazards and are they sculpted adequately? Surfacing okay??? |
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Post by sroel908 on Feb 11, 2024 20:16:49 GMT -5
Yeah, I've watched the video a few times, probably more than I'd like to admit. I still am not seeing what missed the boat. Just looking for what I can do to get my next course approved. Can you see your hazards and are they sculpted adequately? Surfacing okay??? I've not played this specific course that's being discussed, but when I play courses that people ask for feedback on, the biggest issues on all of them really boil down to 3 things: 1) sculpting 2) surfacing 3) bunkers To anyone that's uncertain of why their course didn't get approved/tour worthy, I always think the best thing they could do is to go play any of the courses on a TGCTour for that week, and see how it compares. And I mean REALLY look at it with a critical eye. I know as a designer, you can get really attached to a course and not see the faults - I've been there. But something that made me realize the areas where I was falling short was actually analyzing what the better courses were doing and how they looked versus my own. |
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Post by aero5k on Feb 11, 2024 21:16:29 GMT -5
I understand all of what you're saying; however, for the most part every fairway hazard is visible from the tee and if an approach is blind I've given the option for a longer non-blind approach. Sculpting could definitely be more refined, and if that's the issue its understandable. Is there anything specific that I shouldn't be doing in terms of surfacing, sculpting, or blindness that I did do.
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Post by sandgroper on Feb 11, 2024 23:49:19 GMT -5
1. Many tee boxes are not flat
2. Shapes used for bunkers on fairways give a band of heavy rough around them
3. Excessive over sculpting of fairways
4. Greens have way too much red
- checkout the back-right of 2 and front-left edge of 6, it has angles in it
- what is going on with that massive mound on the back-left of 14?
- punchbowl green of 16 is highly exaggerated
5. First hole the green is fully blind
6. Blind hazards.
- 2 bunkers down the right hand side of the 4th fairway hidden behind the hill yet left side is open. Would have been better to put them over there.
- Centre bunker in middle of 8th fairway blind off the tee
- 12th tee gives me a 5I and no indication of the blind hazard awaiting a well struck 4I.
The anvil rock in the ocean is the feature, but a long way out and barely visible from any holes.
Clubhouse has bunker behind it, just sitting in the middle of the course. How did I get there, no driveway, parking, paths, garden...
Hit the entire plot with a single click of the giant blue fuzzy brush to tone it all down.
I did like the grasses which were well planted and the lighting, yet rest of plot is bare.
So the bones are there and you are on the right track.
So, flatten tee boxes/smooth out over-sculpted fairways/concentrate on making the bunkers look more real/flatten out the greens/no un-intentional blind hazards.
Hope that helps.
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Post by sroel908 on Feb 12, 2024 0:02:19 GMT -5
Played a round at Links at Anvil Rock, Pin 1, default conditions, blue tees
Hole 1 - centerline hazard has the border of rough around it. Looks odd. I am in the middle of the fairway off the tee, 205 yards from the hole because this is a 90 degree dogleg, and have zero view of anything due to sculpting that leads to unintentional blindness. Green is massive, even for a double green. And the greenside bunkers all also have the odd rough around them, too.
Hole 2 - a 294-yard par-3 that's uphill...could be brutal into the wind and unreachable for some in the right kind of conditions. Green slopes are bit wonky and move in all kinds of directions.
Hole 3 - very odd routing. Watch your step on the tee box, or you'll have a long fall to the sea. You literally have 12 feet or so to drop a tee shot in around this pin to get it close. Otherwise, the major false front sends you likely into heavy rough, or the slopes beyond the hole send you well away to the back of the green.
Hole 4 - fairway bunkers are kind of useless here, just aim left. Some quirky green slopes again...the golf ball moves weird on the putting surface in spots, like it's not smoothed out or micro-sculpted.
Hole 5 - pin here is on a crowned area with yellow slopes 6 feet in front and 6 feet behind the cup. Carried my tee ball 10 feet left of the hole, and got run off the green.
Hole 6 - borderline yellow in the 9-box on default 141 speed greens. Bunkers on this hole again look odd the way they are sculpted and placed on the land.
Hole 7 - hole designs are kind of repetitive...two bunkers on one side of the fairway. I'm 101 yards from the green in the middle of the fairway, and sculpting blocks any view of it.
Hole 8 - centerline bunker is not visible from the tee, and it's only 250 yards away. Easy to bomb over it with a 300-yard driver.
Hole 9 - sculpting on this is a bit over done, but it's probably the better of the holes on the course.
Hole 10 - this is OK.
Hole 11 - humongous green for a 178-yard par-3. Lots of red slopes all over...miss your target, and you'll have a roller coaster of a putt - or get sent off the surface like I did.
Hole 12 - sorry, but this hole made very little sense to me, and technical work of it is not great. There's one pretty small section of fairway that starts 170 yards from the tee, but ends 215 yards from the tee. There's then a floating fairway section to the left that starts 210 yards from the tee, has a huge swale in the middle of it with a huge section of bald "heavy rough" terrain running right into the short grass, and ends 310 from the tee. But then there's also a small bit of fairway attached to the green section that starts 300 yards away. Just too much going on with no real strategy. Unless the wind is strong and into my face, I'm playing up to the fairway near the green. All this does is really punish anyone who doesn't use the longest driver.
Hole 13 - it's OK, green is part of the aforementioned double green, and this pin location is near the red slopes that separate it.
Hole 14 - another odd routing, as the Hole 13 green and pin is like 30 yards straight in front of the tee. Green is over sculpted with so many red slopes everywhere, and bunkers in front of it very deep. I know it's a short-4, but this is overdoing it.
Hole 15 - super short par-5...I hit a 100% drive with just a 4 mph wind at my back, and got 360 yards off the tee and it left me 162 in. Reached in 2 with Pitching Wedge. I also had no view of the green from the middle of the fairway due to the sculpting. Yellow in the 9-box, but since it's a short-5, it's manageable.
Hole 16 - this hole is about the same distance as the last one, but is a par-4. It's also well uphill. I hit a 314 yard drive, and was 205 away (40 yards longer than I had in on the last par-5). A punchbowl green is fun, but this one seems to steep on the edges - I have no clue how that green surface could be maintained. It makes it look unnatural.
Hole 17 - there's an odd circle dent in the middle of this fairway. This is another short par-5 that plays well shorter than the previous hole that was a par-4. I had 190 in on my second.
Hole 18 - a drivable-4 finisher...this one doesn't do it for me. The green is again a bit over the top. There's orange in the 9-box, and anyone who has to chip from the left of the green will end up in the right side bunker or rough. The whole appeal of a drivable-4 is to give the player the thrill of risk/reward. Here, it's made so the green is totally wild that no drive is probably going to ever hold it. And this pin location could not support any green speed faster than this, as it barely works on default.
Sculpting and bunkers are the issue here. Green sculpting is overdone, and fairway sculpting leads to blindness. Bunkers have the odd strand of rough around them. Some routing here is quirky, too, with multiple holes where you're teeing off almost straight into the previous hole's green.
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Post by stealin01 on Mar 17, 2024 3:05:12 GMT -5
I recently submitted Fossjl Trace Golf Club. After my last 20+ courses being approved I would be interested as to way this course was not approved? Any input would be appreciated.
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Post by sroel908 on Mar 17, 2024 10:01:25 GMT -5
I recently submitted Fossjl Trace Golf Club. After my last 20+ courses being approved I would be interested as to way this course was not approved? Any input would be appreciated. Green speeds are set to the same as the Fast default in game, 155. This limits scheduler's flexibility. Bunker sculpting needs work. Lots of blind bunkers off the tee, and lots of hazards that look more like impact craters. Some unintentionally blind water off the tee, too. Planting is strange in spots...use of the same tree repeated in small areas, and then some autogen planting right off the playing surfaces. Surface transitions are awkward between fairway and green. Rocks in play, smack dab in the fairways. Is this an RCR of the Fossil Trace course in Colorado? If so, RCRs need to be VERY accurate to get approved, per the TGCT database guidelines, which are in the video in the first post... Bunkers, sculpting, and surfacing are the biggest issues here. And all of that is covered in the video. EDIT - I looked and now can see this is an RCR of Fossil Trace. While you got the layout down and such, the technical work here needs attention. As mentioned, the bunkers here were pretty rough and had bathtub-y bottoms, looked like scoops taken out of ice cream containers, and were also totally blind in many spots. Also, while Hole 12 does look that way in reality, it also may not make for great tour use, with rocks dead in play. Since the database is more for schedulers than anything, a course like this won't be well suited for use here. And again, lots of the technical concerns are covered in the video in the OP. Please watch it if you haven't. |
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Post by b101 on Mar 17, 2024 11:47:54 GMT -5
I recently submitted Fossjl Trace Golf Club. After my last 20+ courses being approved I would be interested as to way this course was not approved? Any input would be appreciated. One observation: all your posts are in this thread and in the last three, you've been told exactly the same thing. |
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Post by cowboyjim on Mar 28, 2024 19:31:17 GMT -5
Hello. I recently submitted my new course Deer Meadows Resort, WA for approval and didn't get one. I was curious if I could get the contributing reasons as to why. All of the courses I have submitted before that weren't approved I couldn't disagree with but I honestly don't understand why this one was rejected. Any insight as to why the course was rejected is appreciated. Cheers and thank you for your time.
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Post by axelvonfersen on Mar 29, 2024 3:59:53 GMT -5
Hello. I recently submitted my new course Deer Meadows Resort, WA for approval and didn't get one. I was curious if I could get the contributing reasons as to why. All of the courses I have submitted before that weren't approved I couldn't disagree with but I honestly don't understand why this one was rejected. Any insight as to why the course was rejected is appreciated. Cheers and thank you for your time.
Hello,
it was very close to Approved, but ultimately it came down to:
- Unintentional blindness in a lot of places, both off the tee and on the approach shots - Sculpting and surfacing - Bunkers not sculpted and in a lot of places just single clicked brushes placed - You've fenced off your greens. Don't fence off your greens. If Pebble 7 isn't fenced off, you don't need to fence off your inland courses. - Hole designs and playability. For instance placing a bunker behind a three story rock wall.
Planting was good in a lot of places and you're definitely learning how the designer works. Now check the videos in OP and stop over complicating things, I've no doubt the next course will be Approved.
Good luck.
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