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Post by win33black on Apr 10, 2024 18:50:05 GMT -5
Kinross & Loch Leven Good morning. Is it possible to get some feedback as to why the course was not accepted so that I am able to improve future efforts?  |
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Post by sroel908 on Apr 10, 2024 19:11:28 GMT -5
Kinross & Loch Leven Good morning. Is it possible to get some feedback as to why the course was not accepted so that I am able to improve future efforts? Played a few holes here on Pin 1, default settings. Right off the bat, sculpting is clearly a bit of an issue. Hole 1's fairway is extremely sloped in places, and the centerline hazard is not visible off the tee. The planting in the bunker there is also a bit odd. Hole 2...the bunkers need a bit better sculpting here. Also, Pin 1 is smack-dab in the middle of a yellow-orange slope on default 142 green speeds. This means the hole location is "illegal" per TGCTours guidelines. In most cases, the 9-box grid around a cup should have no non-green slopes in it. Hole 3...there's a retaining wall right in the landing zone of driver here. Very strange. The seaside sculpting is again harsh and looks odd, as the terrain is just bare and steep - straight into the water. Hole 4...routing here is quirky. Not sure how you get to the green from the tee without risking death on the cliffs, or getting peppered with shots walking back across Hole 3 green! Anyway, through those first few holes, it's fairly clear that sculpting, planting, routing, and hole design need some work. Check out the video in the first post of this thread for more details, and watch design tutorials from the likes of CrazyCanuck1985 and b101 if you haven't. |
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Post by win33black on Apr 10, 2024 23:15:59 GMT -5
Thanks for your feedback - I think  Much appreciated |
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Post by blixt99 on May 23, 2024 11:34:33 GMT -5
Hello benevolent reviewers. I am a recent convert to the TGC 2K23 course design cult. I was a long time golfer
and can no longer play my beloved courses, so I decided to recreate them in the virtual world so I and others might
still be able to enjoy them. Of course they are all Lidar courses as I am not yet sufficiently confident to sculpt from scratch.
I'm looking for feedback as all three were rejected. I know none of them will ever be Tour ready, but I would at least
like to create at least one course that can qualify for the database. Thanx for your feedback.
Heron Lakes - Great Blue
Heron Lakes - Greenback
Rose City GC (Lidar)
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Post by sroel908 on May 23, 2024 12:37:50 GMT -5
Hello benevolent reviewers. I am a recent convert to the TGC 2K23 course design cult. I was a long time golfer and can no longer play my beloved courses, so I decided to recreate them in the virtual world so I and others might still be able to enjoy them. Of course they are all Lidar courses as I am not yet sufficiently confident to sculpt from scratch. I'm looking for feedback as all three were rejected. I know none of them will ever be Tour ready, but I would at least like to create at least one course that can qualify for the database. Thanx for your feedback. Heron Lakes - Great Blue Heron Lakes - Greenback Rose City GC (Lidar) Hi there, and welcome! I am not a reviewer, but schedule for a couple tours and here and see the Tour Worthy courses that come thru. I just fired up Heron Lakes - Great Blue... First off, the course only has one pin set. That's an immediate rejection, because any course that's considered for tour play or even approval to the database needs to have 4 pin sets to accommodate 4 rounds of play. Please see the video in the OP for more details, as well as other things that could cause an immediate rejection. Anyway, I decided to keep going to see if I could offer any feedback. I noticed the default settings you used for the course indicate Firm fairways, but Soft greens, and Slow green speeds. Not a deal breaker, but an interesting combo. That said, I see green speeds are set to a default of 111. That's quite slow, and a speed that's really going to prevent any flexibility for schedulers - especially when the hole location on Hole 2 is set on all yellow-colored grid slopes. That pin was "illegal" in TGCT terms even at the 111 speeds, as there should be no yellow, orange, or red within the 9 grid boxes surrounding the cup. Another thing to remember is that, even with LiDAR courses, you'll need to do sculpting to make everything look natural. Some green slopes were a bit wonky in spots. And some greens then barely had any movement at all. Hole 10's fairway bunkers could not be seen from the tees due to sculpting, and this is what's known as "unintentional blindness". And some fairway-to-green surface transitions were a little quirky. There were some bunkers that could have used a bit more finesse as well. Otherwise, planting was pretty solid, and the environment was decent. There were a couple auto-generated plants that could be removed here and there. One thing that would hold this course back is actually just how it translates to video game golf. It's very straightforward with not a ton of strategy in the virtual world, as we can all hit 300 yard drives with ease and drop wedge shots within feet of the cup with consistency. I think you've done a pretty decent job here, but the big things are that you only had one pin set, which is an auto-rejection, and that a couple of the pin locations are "illegal" per TGCT rules. |
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Post by trailducker on May 23, 2024 12:45:18 GMT -5
Hello benevolent reviewers. I am a recent convert to the TGC 2K23 course design cult. I was a long time golfer and can no longer play my beloved courses, so I decided to recreate them in the virtual world so I and others might still be able to enjoy them. Of course they are all Lidar courses as I am not yet sufficiently confident to sculpt from scratch. I'm looking for feedback as all three were rejected. I know none of them will ever be Tour ready, but I would at least like to create at least one course that can qualify for the database. Thanx for your feedback. Heron Lakes - Great Blue Heron Lakes - Greenback Rose City GC (Lidar) Hey Blixt, Not a reviewer here. But I’m the one who messaged you on Facebook about being an architect in the high school remodel next door to Rose City. I hadn’t gotten to the Heron Lakes course yet (and I should since I know Both well IRL) but on Rose City I didn’t play it because I could tell flying around there’s not a level of detail taken. Which is fine as that’s a lot of work but if you want to be approved you have to spend a bit more time from what I saw on Rose City. It looked to me that not much time was spent adjusting the LiDar you received which made some awkward and harsh sculpting. I’ve never done a RCR but if you look up CLV’s RCRs he does the best in the game. And I know there’s work on the sculpting from what he gets from the LiDAR. The technology isn't perfect for one and also the game plays slightly different then IRL so some work needs to be done in some areas, specifically on the greens. Also the planting was a bit bare bones and made it seem like an autogen course. People like CLV, Q, Metatropic and BeaconJunkie can help out getting you there more than I can do. And sorry responding on my phone so can’t tag them but hopefully some of them see this. Hope my observations help a bit. |
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Post by BaconJunkie1 on May 23, 2024 13:12:07 GMT -5
I'm not a reviewer but I love LiDARs and done a few.  I had a few minutes to look at your work and drop a few things you need to work on BUT let me say this, most of your work is enough to get approved in my opinion so it's a shame what you did and had you watched the video below, you would not have broken a cardinal rule 3 times. You committed one of the course designer 101 must do rules, you must have 4 pins on every hole for TGC approval. Watch this video, it goes into detail about the things you must do. You really need to work on your fairway to green transitions, everyone of them have "wings" or bulges. That's because the splines are wrong on OSM "for the game" but you did them the way OSM wants them to be done but they add the wings in the game. I would do them as I have in the picture then after you get the course in the game, go back and join them to the green with the gray dots or circle the fairway around the green. Bunker sculpting needs some attention, LiDAR KILLS bunkers. IMO they need to be traced with the measure tool, move the bunker spline off the space and the bunker space flattened and then spline the bunker at 0 width and raise the center/s as needed, about 10-11" and then touched up as needed. Delete the old spline when done. Yes it's a PITB but so worth it. How OSM wants them to look but will give you wings or bulges  Will not cause wings but looks MEH .... you are better off using a surfaces 2nd surface to get a uniform look all the way around, you can do the fairway with one, then copy the green surface and do the fringe on it's 2nd surface ... they will be layered as Green 1, Green 2, Light or Heavy Rough .... "In my opinion this is better, other's mileage may vary". 
Not my work but this is how you want to do them, run at least 2 fairway splines onto the green surface on each side and blend them so you get a clean transition BUT your work will be deleted or reverted if you leave it like this and OSM will reach out to tell you how much they love your work may even give you some days off. Just fix them after you get the course into the game. 
These are Wings or Bulges
 Also you need to fill in the blank spaces, i've seen this one slide but partially cost me a Tour Worthy. Just go off course and make a plant patch using the trees in your theme to save on meter and copy and paste as needed. Autogen sucks, yeah do not do that ... again, my opinion.  |
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Post by blixt99 on May 24, 2024 11:18:27 GMT -5
Thanks BaconJunkie1 for your invaluable feedback. I appreciate the effort you put in and I will certainly
use your tips on future recreations. I did not know that Lidar killed bunkers. I've watched the Chad Tools tutorial
videos and he(Chad) swore by the accuracy of Lidar data, even with bunkers, so I had no idea bunkers might be wrong.
So you're saying that Lidar tends to make bunkers too deep? Interesting.
Your No Wings method 2 for splining is what I did originally in OSM and I got reamed for doing it. So I ended
up with the wings you point out. I guess I was drinking too much Red Bull when working on the course! HA HA.
I think I understand your "you are better off using a surfaces 2nd surface to get a uniform look all the way around,
you can do the fairway with one, then copy the green surface and do the fringe on it's 2nd surface ... they will be
layered as Green 1, Green 2, Light or Heavy Rough" statement. I believe I watched a CrazyCanuck
tutorial which showed how to do this. I will go back and review that video. Thanks again.
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Post by albinobluesheep on May 24, 2024 13:14:09 GMT -5
So you're saying that Lidar tends to make bunkers too deep? Interesting. I usually end up doing a "move spline" to resize it but keep the same shape a bit, and then you still have to do a bit of sculpting on the bunkers them selves to get the the "right" dept. The LIDAR data give them the correct depth, or pretty close to it, but then the bunker spline makes it deeper, so you have to go and eyeball the bunker depth a bit. If you remove the spline, you'll see the LIDAR data for the bunker it there. if you delete the spine completely there is not way to recreate the exact "negative spline width" that Chads tool does, but sometimes you just have to manually make the bunker anyway. |
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Post by metatropic on May 24, 2024 13:24:30 GMT -5
So you're saying that Lidar tends to make bunkers too deep? Interesting. I usually end up doing a "move spline" to resize it but keep the same shape a bit, and then you still have to do a bit of sculpting on the bunkers them selves to get the the "right" dept. The LIDAR data give them the correct depth, or pretty close to it, but then the bunker spline makes it deeper, so you have to go and eyeball the bunker depth a bit. If you remove the spline, you'll see the LIDAR data for the bunker it there. if you delete the spine completely there is not way to recreate the exact "negative spline width" that Chads tool does, but sometimes you just have to manually make the bunker anyway. I’ve taken to converting the bunker splines to greens, then measure and write down all the “true” depths, then convert back to bunkers and adjust the sculpting to required depth. The autosculpt typically adds about 1.5 foot depth. |
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Post by BaconJunkie1 on May 24, 2024 16:28:30 GMT -5
Blixt99 you are getting some good tips. Yeah LiDAR gets it kind of close but you can't or shouldn't leave them as they show up and this is why. These are from a soon to be released course Black Creek Club, it has flatish bottom bunkers. RAW they are 1'-7" deep and every bunker has jagged lines (From Left to Right; Sat view of actual bunkers, RAW LiDAR bunkers, finished product). Another Bunker Tip: You can use the flattening brush in the bunker to get the flat bottoms, just use some math that B101 has spelled out in his videos. Say your bunker is 1'-6" deep and you want it to be 1'-1". With a flattening brush that almost fills the shape of your bunker bottom (do not go to the bunker edges, I used a rectangle on the ones below, you just want to work with the bottoms) you can set it at 0" and the bunker will get deeper (love this designer LOL) but set it to raise it 1'-3" and the bottom will flatten but will not raise. Set it to 1'-8" (adding the 5" to 1'-3") and it should, I repeat SHOULD get to 1'-1", then touch-up with the fuzzy raise brushes as needed.    |
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Post by blixt99 on May 25, 2024 2:25:06 GMT -5
I really want to thank all the responders to my query. I will try to apply all the tips you
guys have provided. My goal for each course as to make it as close as possible to the actual real course.
Besides the Lidar data, I gather as many course photos as I can find from various sources. I also use Google Earth
photos and the Earth 3D Map website to use as a guide to planting and object placement. It's definitely a process, but I enjoy
doing it. Thanks again for all your suggestions.
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Post by b101 on May 29, 2024 7:50:05 GMT -5
Askernish GC, Summer (L) - just to pre-empt one, we'll only ever need one version of a course in the database. Let me know if you'd prefer this one and I'll flip the ratings.
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Post by therealj014 on Jun 10, 2024 11:34:48 GMT -5
Hey,
So if I previously published a course, is there a way to make changes and publish it again? The reason is because I feel like I gradually keep getting better at this and have previously published courses but they’re not great and have obvious issues that can be edited.
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Post by axelvonfersen on Jun 10, 2024 12:02:43 GMT -5
Hey, So if I previously published a course, is there a way to make changes and publish it again? The reason is because I feel like I gradually keep getting better at this and have previously published courses but they’re not great and have obvious issues that can be edited. You could always publish it, but we don't accept re-submitted courses.
Build a new one and submit that instead.
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Much appreciated 
I had a few minutes to look at your work and drop a few things you need to work on BUT let me say this, most of your work is enough to get approved in my opinion so it's a shame what you did and had you watched the video below, you would not have broken a cardinal rule 3 times. You committed one of the course designer 101 must do rules, you must have 4 pins on every hole for TGC approval. Watch this video, it goes into detail about the things you must do.
